AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 49

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Today's Topics:

   1. 258 Valve Spring / Locks / Keeper Replacement (Brien Tourville)
   2. email exchange on "prototype' ambo convertible. (Dan Curtis)
   3. Fw: Question for item #330021373417 - AMC : Rambler (Dan Curtis)
   4. Re: 69 Vs 70 suspension (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
   5. Re: 69 Vs 70 suspension (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
   6. some 82-83 loaded calipers available (Mark Price)
   7. Re: 69 Vs 70 suspension (Tom Jennings)
   8. Re: 69 Vs 70 suspension (dan whitehead)
   9. 82-83 calipers (Mark Price)
  10. 6 cylinder help/belts! (John Elle)
  11. Re: 69 Vs 70 suspension (Matt Haas)
  12. Loaded Calipers (JOE FULTON)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:16:56 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 258 Valve Spring / Locks / Keeper Replacement
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <44EF5AB8.12456.1F458DE@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII



Hi All,
I am gearing up to replace valve springs and seals on my 1984 258 and 
have
a question:

What tool have any of you used to compress the valve springs to 
remove the
keeper locks (with the head still on the block)? Will the lever type 
used
on a small block chevy work on the 258?

Thanks for any of your experience on this!

Dave Borkman
Saunderstown, RI


===       ===




It's strongly recommended that you replace
the locks & keepers with AFTERMARKET 
items.

AMC items have a 'letting go' rate that is
known to Jeep builders.

CRANE or Comp Cams etc. should have
what you need.

MoPar Performance would as well.



   Brien Tourville
      NEW YORK


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:49:57 -0700
From: "Dan Curtis" <d.curtis@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] email exchange on "prototype' ambo convertible.
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <001901c6c8a9$8d952d70$0300a8c0@D14DCP61>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

I sent this email to the guy with the 65 Ambo "prototype' convertible and 
this is what he had to say:

Me:
I am wondering if you have gotten rid of the inappropriate prototype content 
on your blog. AMC used build sheets until they ran out before replacing them 
with new ones with later dates. Your car is a great example of a vintage AMC 
convertible but is not a prototype. AMC simply did not make exact versions 
of production cars that far in advance.

I wish you well in the auction but please be sure to not try to pass the car 
off as a prototype. The serial number on the dash and top of the inside 
fender tower along with the door tag will tell you exactly what date and 
where the car was built so you might want to include pictures of those in 
the auction and on your blog as well.

Regards,
Dan Curtis

Him:
Why did AMC offer Roy Stoddard $5000. for an ordinary Ambassador 990 as soon 
as he got the car home in Oskaloosa, Iowa? just an ordinary car right?

My response:
Not ordinary at all.  It was a primo example of a 1965 fairly rare, first 
year model of that body style car.  I suspect if you look at the build 
numbers for a '65 Ambo convertible, you will see that very few of them were 
built for '65 although there are a couple of folks on the AMX-files that 
have one as well.

Don't get me wrong, your car is a beautiful survivor of a fairly rare car. 
It is also very likely a very early version but AMC did so many unusual 
things with build sheet dates that you need to look at the serial number and 
door tag to get the real lowdown.  Those numbers tell the story regardless 
of what the build sheet says.

I have heard of one person who had a build sheet for a 69 AMX with a 1967 
date on it.  Rest assured, AMC did not build a 69 AMX prototype in 1967 as 
they had 1968 AMXs before the 69s.  It's just the way AMC did things which 
is why they are fun but quirky to own.

Regards,
Dan Curtis
d.curtis@xxxxxxx
602-317-2018 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 17:53:10 -0700
From: "Dan Curtis" <d.curtis@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Fw: Question for item #330021373417 - AMC :
	Rambler
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <002101c6c8aa$00dc9750$0300a8c0@D14DCP61>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Re: Question for item #330021373417 - AMC : RamblerHoly crap!  I just 
realized this guy's ebay address: UseTheYellowButton is one of the ebay 
addresses that tried to scam me a few months back by sending me a bogus 
inquiry about something I was selling....buyer beware!

Regards,
Dan Curtis
d.curtis@xxxxxxx
602-317-2018

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dan Curtis
To: UseTheYellowButton@xxxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: Question for item #330021373417 - AMC : Rambler


Not ordinary at all.  It was a primo example of a 1965 fairly rare, first 
year model of that body style car.  I suspect if you look at the build 
numbers for a '65 Ambo convertible, you will see that very few of them were 
built for '65 although there are a couple of folks on the AMX-files that 
have one as well.

Don't get me wrong, your car is a beautiful survivor of a fairly rare car. 
It is also very likely a very early version but AMC did so many unusual 
things with build sheet dates that you need to look at the serial number and 
door tag to get the real lowdown.  Those numbers tell the story regardless 
of what the build sheet says.

I know of one person who had a build sheet for a 69 AMX with a 1967 date on 
it.  Rest assured, AMC did not build a 69 AMX prototype in 1967 as they had 
1968 AMXs before the 69s.  It's just the way AMC did things which is why 
they are fun but quirky to own.

Regards,
Dan Curtis
d.curtis@xxxxxxx
602-317-2018

----- Original Message ----- 
From: eBay Member: harperboy
To: d.curtis@xxxxxxx
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 6:45 PM
Subject: Re: Question for item #330021373417 - AMC : Rambler


eBay sent this message to Dan Curtis (amx39068).
Your registered name is included to show this message originated from eBay. 
Learn more.
Response to Question about Item -- Respond Now

eBay sent this message on behalf of an eBay member through My Messages. 
Responses sent using email will not reach the eBay member.



 Response from harperboy
harperboy( 2)
Positive feedback:100%
Member since:Apr-18-01
Location:IA, United States
Registered on:www.ebay.com


Item: AMC : Rambler (330021373417)
This message was sent while the listing was active.
harperboy is the seller.



Why did AMC offer Roy Stoddard $5000. for an ordinary Ambassador 990 as soon 
as he got the car home in Oskaloosa, Iowa? just an ordinary car right?
Respond to this question



Responses in My Messages will not include your email address.




Thank you,
eBay



Details for item number: 330021373417
Item title:AMC : Rambler
Item 
URL:http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330021373417&sspagename=ADME:L:RTQ:US:1
End date:Saturday, Sep 02, 2006 16:36:00 PDT

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:02:22 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E660B7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

i have heard of '69 amxes converted to '70-style front ends, so the
panel as a whole seems to be a straight fit. i would like to know if the
'68-9 amx panel is the same as the '64-9 american, which it shares
suspension with. careful eyeballing says yes. anyone have a body- panel
parts book? yes, popping or drilling all the welds to remove the inner
fender panels would be a job, but it can and has been done. 
Andrew Hay 
------------------------------

Not only the American, but the Hornet (et al) panels are close as well.
They can be trimmed just above the upper arm mounts or top of the spring
tower and fitted to an earlier car. I've seen one done that way (cut at
the vertical bend just above the spring tower). 

Shock tower, by the way, is only correct terminology for the 70+ cars.
Even then it's really the spring tower. The term "shock tower" really
comes from certain big three cars that have low mounted springs and high
mounted shocks. 



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:11:40 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E660B8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Date: Friday, August 25, 2006 04:37 PM
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> 
> i have heard of '69 amxes converted to '70-style front ends, so the

Why is this desirable?
----------------------------------------------

Just to get rid of the trunnions. For road racing they can be a bit of a
problem, they don't take the stresses of really hard competition driving
that well. I recall the TA drivers complaining about some deflection --
but that's seriously hard driving! The 70+ suspension has some anti-dive
built in. But for most people it's the mistaken belief that ball joints
are somehow "better". The trunnions accomplish the same thing in really
a safer manner -- I've seen an upper ball joint break, but never a
trunnion. Even the old style lower trunnion won't break. 

The stories where the steering knuckle actually lifted out of a lower
trunnion are true though. It's basically a coarse thread 5/8" bolt.
Anyone ever seen a nut worn to the point it will pull off a bolt? That's
how badly worn an old style lower trunnion has to be to lift out. 5-10
years and TENS of thousands of miles of serious neglect -- no grease!!

So it's just a matter of beleiving that the trunnion is "bad". I'm not
the only one to state that modern rebuilt trunnions for the 64-69 small
cars with polyurethane bushings are vastly superior to the originals
with synthetic rubber. Spend the $500 to replace the old ones instead of
as much plus lots of work to get a 70+ suspension that probably needs
rebuilding anyway. You'll not notice the difference, and the trunnion
suspension will be a bit lighter to boot. 




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:12:28 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] some 82-83 loaded calipers available
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <3727063.1156554748119.JavaMail.root@web22>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I just stumbled across these loaded calipers on eBay. IIRC [I hope I recall correctly as I ordered a set!] they are the correct calipers for the 82-83 AMC brakes and the price is excellent.
 
eBay item # 150023770332	

--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:20:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608251814130.13220@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006, francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

> > i have heard of '69 amxes converted to '70-style front ends, so the
> 
> Why is this desirable?

> Just to get rid of the trunnions. 


I figured as much, but it wasn't stated. It sure sounds like a
lot of work for little gain. Upper trunnions are weird, and all,
but for street use quite fine.

I think it would be a LOT easier to re-make an upper A-arm to
fit a ball joint steering knuckle in the "trunnion" chassis.
If I recall the ball joint A-arm is wide at the inner bushings.)
(I assume there's a lower ball joint in the AMX, and not an
American-type lower trunnion?)




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 01:20:54 +0000
From: "dan whitehead" <freebird_58@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY111-F153AC533334046BCDA04DC943A0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Yes, I know the work involved in changing the shock towers.  Why does anyone 
want to update suspensions, maybe because the ones there aren't as good as 
what's available now.  This is the reason I'm thinking about doing the 
conversion.  I already have the trunions on the shelf, cleaned, rebuilt with 
poly bushings, ready to go in.  Do I have the knowledge and tools, yes.  I 
just wanted to verify that if I decide to go with the '70-up suspensions 
that the only modification (other than associated equipment) was the shock 
towers.

Thank you for all the input and information.  As I've said before, this site 
is one of the most valuable assets that an AMC'er can have.

Dan Whitehead




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:48:37 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 82-83 calipers
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <25940389.1156556917067.JavaMail.root@web22>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I made myself curious so I went and cross referenced the calipers I just bought off feebay. Advance autos cross reference does not link them to the Concord from the XJ, but when I checked the calipers for each the same Bendix caliper # comes up! So it is either an exchange they missed or they don't do a cross reference due to pad material.
I do know the $19.99 price is exceptional for a loaded pair of calipers. I'll let everyone know what they look like when I get them. 
  One more part on the shelf for the convertible!
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 20:14:23 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 6 cylinder help/belts!
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000201c6c8bd$bd381060$40dd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Richard, 
Snip
I working on the 80 Concord Wagon to fix the front seal, I got lost a
bit.
Snip
Not too unusual
Snip
I decided to leave off the emission stuff.
Snip
For a variety of reasons, this may not be the best of idea's but 
that is another day. 
Snip
Well I did learn that I cannot run a single belt from crank to power
steering ove water pump to alternator.  No tension on the water pump!
Snip
This is another one.
Snip
Plus, cannot figure out where to bolt the alternator exactly that will
allow
the rest of the timing cover bolts to go into place.
Snip
This is another one. 
SNIP
Does anyone have a lead on where to find a good pic for the placement of
all
the front stuff again.
SNIP 
Not sure
SNIP
 And is there an alternative to run all the parts
correctly without going back to the emission set up?
Snip
This is not your problem yet!
SNIP
  It also has AC which is not working at this time and I noticed that
 I would have to replace the fan pulley with a two belt set up to run
 the AC later.
SNIP
This is!
 
First of all there is 12 different unique belt configurations that you
can have on the I-6 in 1980 depending on the source of the engine. As
mine in my Spirit is from a Pacer I had to verify which configuration I
am using. It turns out it is a Six Cylinder with air conditioner,  power
steering, air pump equipped, and an alternator configured as a Concord,
Spirit, AMX and Eagle. Things get interesting if the accessory package
changes. 
The bracketry on your Concord for 1980 assuming you also have power
steering mounts the alternator below the air conditioning compressor.
The air conditioning compressor drives the Alternator thus the reason
for the dual pulley on the air conditioning compressor. If you don't
have air conditioning the alternator mounts up where the compressor
mounts. You do not have the bracketry to mount the alternator anywhere
but where it belongs on your car with A/C. If you don't have the A/C
compressor mounted you will not drive the alternator. The belt for the
A/C compressor has an idler mounted low that runs on the outside of the
belt to apply tension to it and keep it from flopping around. The A/C
belt is tightened with an idler and it's bracketry that mounts just
above the water pump on the drivers side front of the engine. 
Assuming you have power steering, the power steering pump mounts on a
bracketry assembly that reminds me of a Chinese puzzle that almost
defies description and the power steering pump belt also drives the
water pump, thus you only need one V groove in that pulley. The dual
pulley on the power steering pump mounted just below the surface of the
block on its Chinese puzzle bracketry drives the air pump. Thus the air
pump can be removed if you feel it is important with out affecting the
correct routing of the belts. However as I live in a state with smog
inspection and these cars may be come collectable if in nice shape and
as I already own 2 1980 AMC cars, a Spirit and an AMX should the smog
pump not be on the car and it is for sale. I'm not interested, it won't
pass smog and the parts are getting very hard to find. But that is just
my reaction to missing smog parts. 
If you do not have a power steering pump and nothing was said about it,
there are idler assemblies apparently installed to replace missing
components so you probably are going to have to find a parts car to get
the pieces required to run belts on your car as the existing brackets
won't get the job done if you leave things off. 
Sorry about that. I may have some pictures that may help you in this. If
you can be more specific. 
John. 


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:46:11 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060825233336.02818cd0@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

At 06:20 PM 8/25/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>I think it would be a LOT easier to re-make an upper A-arm to
>fit a ball joint steering knuckle in the "trunnion" chassis.
>If I recall the ball joint A-arm is wide at the inner bushings.)
>(I assume there's a lower ball joint in the AMX, and not an
>American-type lower trunnion?)
<snip>

I think American's went to a lower ball joint for 1964. Also, the front 
suspension is identical between same year American's, Javelin's and AMX's 
except for springs and probably shocks. I think there was a different lower 
ball joint (and possible steering knuckle) for the first couple years on 
American's but I don't have the inclination to dig through parts books at 
the moment.

Also, besides my 43,000 mile 67 American wagon, I also had a 50 something 
thousand mile 68 Valiant. Both with a six cylinder and automatic. The 
American handles much better than the Valiant did (which isn't saying much 
since my 96 Ram handles better than either one of those cars). My personal 
feeling is that the suspension on the American is great for what it is 
(60's economy car) but for the most part, even the best handling cars of 
that era are no match for a present day economy car. Suspension and tire 
technology have improved a lot in the past 40 years.

Matt

mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 22:12:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Loaded Calipers
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060826051217.81568.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I just stumbled across these loaded calipers on eBay.
IIRC [I hope I recall
correctly as I ordered a set!] they are the correct
calipers for the 82-83 AMC
brakes and the price is excellent.

eBay item # 150023770332

--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV

Mark,

You have too much free time on your hands.  Your wife
is going to have to terminate your computer
privileges.

Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA


------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 49
***************************************