Re: [Amc-list] PRD aluminum radiators...question again???

["Armand Eshleman" <aje1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

John,
Thanks for the reply.
Joe,
My radiator just arrived today.

My evaluation of the radiator follows.

Pros
1. Quality of the welding is excellent. The guy doing the welding has
experience, is he Taiwanese per chance? Nah fergit that even the brackets
are welded on with great quality.
2. The radiators look good, and probably would polish up to a good shine.
Question, will polishing the radiator ruin its outer layer of corrosion
resistance? Some aluminum alloys have a unique property of exterior
corrosion resistance (not anodizing either) , but if that is gone then
things begin to happen. I'm not polishing mine.
3. The filler neck looks great even what I thought would look cheesy ( the
overflow nipple) actually looks good.
4. The tanks are good looking too and appear as though they will take the
abuse.
5. The core looks nice it arrived without fin damage.
6. The mounting flanges (made from aluminum angle) are OK.
7.

Cons
1. As I feared the radiator was packed poorly and mine has the lower hose
connection bent somewhat right at the rolled lip, I'll try to fix it. I
ordered a radiator for my kids Integra that was packed absolutely rock
solid. It only cost $85 from NAPA, it has aluminum core and plastic tanks.
Why didn't PRD pack it better? Remember we're talking a 300 dollar radiator
here. I would have gladly paid another 10 or 15 lousy bucks to make sure it
would not arrive damaged. If I return the thing I pay more shipping, to
what, get another one banged up?? Had this very same thing happen to me
elsewhere in the past, with my poor mans corvette (chevette). People,
listen, you gotta really pack radiators very solidly, just a little spray in
foam at each end doesn't cut it. Pack it with double layer cardboard against
both sides of the core, and additional protection around the hose
connections to safeguard them. I don't care who the transporter is they all
suck... none of em care a hoot if your package gets to you in one piece or
not. It's up to the packaging people to armor plate the package. Any one who
blames damage on the shipping agency is merely trying to pass blame for the
poor packaging they did. After all if you do a half ass job of packaging why
shouldn't the transporter be allowed to do a half assed job of moving the
package!!! My box had no abnormal appearing exterior damage. It's a fact it
got rough handled, they all do, better packaging is the secret. I would love
to see a count of how many show up damaged, one so far out of two responses
on this list?? How about the forum. One so far, wonder how many others, or
did mine end up being the last one packaged and that's why it was in a
makeshift box that was not big enough for the radiator with cheesy weak
spray foam at each end that sorrowfully wasn't done well enough to prevent
any damage. (suppose they ran out of foam when they packed mine). I guess I
should comment again here (positively) that miraculously the fins aren't
bent too.
2. My suspicions are that this is in fact a generic radiator that PRD merely
fit  mounting brackets and hose connections to it. That's why the Taiwan
sticker is on the tank on mine. At first I thought the core was Taiwan but I
think the whole thing less the brackets and hose connections is now. Like I
said before though,  I think Taiwan makes much better stuff. Too bad PRD
didn't put it back in the original Taiwan carton, it probably would have
made it here OK then, but the brackets wouldn't let it go into the old box
of course.
3. The brackets are a bit cheesy just being aluminum angle. Great big bolt
hole slots in them, hell I bet they fit Camaros too, Rofl.
3A. Watch your fan clearances I think we lost about a half inch or so of
clearance to factory cooling fans.
4. The lower hose connection cut out in the tank is smaller than the hose
connection tube, can you say restricted flow for my future 5,000 dollar 401
engine?? Nope this one is gonna run the 304 only, Looks like I'll have to
drop my Rambler Mentality and spend more money to get a better radiator, or
bite the bullet and have the local radiator shop make a brass four row.
5. The lower hose connection is above the bottom at least five rows of
tubes. Suppose those bottom five will be helping cool the engine, NOPE.
Water always takes the most direct path and the path of least resistance. It
will  still cool a 304 without any trouble though. Oh yeah the bottom hose
connection is pointed up at a screwy angle on mine, it was welded on that
way. Methinks it will be a bitch to make a hose fit that, beings the factory
setup goes straight into the lower tank at the bottom of the radiator. On
the PRD radiator the lower hose connection is 2-1/2 inches below the bottom
mounting bolt slot. On the factory radiator, the lower hose connection is a
full SIX inches below the bottom mounting bolt. Remember the drive belts are
down there too, any body try to hook one of these up yet? I think if they
would have applied themselves a bit more creatively they could have made
this connection into both the side and the end of the driver's side tank if
they would have utilized a longer piece of tubing and fit it into the side
and end of the tank. That crazy up angle puzzles me, John what about that
anyway?? I wonder if PRD would send me a raw 6" long tube with the lip
rolled at one end. I'd patch the old hole shut and install the tube at the
bottom of the tank like it should have been.

I'm not sure at this point if the pros outweigh the cons, if anyone else
wants to comment and beat me up over my poor observations, I'm ready to be
enlightened. I would love to post this on the forum to see their reaction,
can any one do this for me?
I really hope I'm wrong about my cons, well anyway all but number 1.
John, don't get me wrong I really appreciate your efforts in getting this
opportunity out to everyone, I think most of it is salvageable anyway.
Thanks for listening,
Armand



----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Widiker, John D" <john.widiker@xxxxxxx>
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 8:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] PRD aluminum radiators...question again???


> Happy to reply, didn't see Joe's post until reading your's Armand, what
> was his subject line originally? I either missed it or it didn't come
> through, sorry for the delay Joe!
>
> I think it's entirely correct to discuss this on the list and welcome
> any comments either way
>
> The core's we used are sourced from a racing supplier, they guaranteed
> us of the core dimensions, the billet neck, the no epoxy fully welded
> construction etc. We ordered 3 initially and then a much larger batch at
> the conclusion of the bulk buy. While welding the brackets it did become
> clear that they had changed core suppliers mid way through what they had
> shipped us. Some did have the "made in Taiwan" sticker and some did not,
> there were also small tank dimensional changes that required us to
> change some of the bracket dimensions and the jig they were being welded
> on. We examined both batches extensively and could find nothing what so
> ever that indicated they were of lesser quality in any way.
>
> All the welding to enable the radiators to work in our cars was done in
> the USA, other then a 1 centimeter long sticker nothing was found that
> in any way changed them in a negative way. Nothing was provided to us
> stating origin of the cores and for all I know the first ones could have
> been made anywhere, they did not have a sticker, the second ones did. I
> saw no reason to try to conceal the cores origin.
>
> I did get one offline email that usps had bashed up one of the boxes and
> the overflow nipple had taken a hit hard enough to bend it over, no
> damage to the neck, distortion of the tank or anything indicating that
> these were of cheesy construction. That individual is getting a
> replacement nipple and otherwise is pretty damn happy with his purchase.
> Some nice comments have been made on the forum and over all I'm pretty
> happy right now with how things are going.
>
> If the sticker is causing enough distress that this seems like a
> reasonable statement to post: "Maybe I'm the only dummy who ordered
> one????"  I apologize very much, we had no prior knowledge that it would
> be there and have seen no issues with the quality.
>
> ~John
>
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