AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 11
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 11
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- Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2006 01:16:25 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: rambler hot rod (John Elle)
2. Re: 82 Eagle (Sandwich Maker)
3. Re: rambler hot rod (Sandwich Maker)
4. AMC in Print (Nick ALFANO)
5. Re: 82 Eagle/Tilt Steering (John Elle)
6. Re: 6 Speed GM automatics etc. (Tom Jennings)
7. Re: 6 Speed GM automatics etc. (Ken Ames)
8. Re: rambler hot rod // backwards six (Tom Jennings)
9. Re: rambler hot rod (Tom Jennings)
10. Re: Mid Engine d Hot Rod (Tom Jennings)
11. Re: 82 Eagle/Tilt Steering (Mark Price)
12. Re: rambler hot rod (Tom Jennings)
13. Re: rambler hot rod // backwards six (Mark Price)
14. Re: rambler hot rod // backwards six (Sandwich Maker)
15. Re: 6 Speed GM automatics etc. (John Elle)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 15:34:31 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <001801c6e73c$1bef4f00$ccdc0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
List,
snip
" The Cadillac Seville might be a possibility too!
afaik this was just another nova knockoff.
Snip
Yuh!, but it is front wheel drive.
snip
[2] rare? mine is the only one i've ever heard of actually existing.
Snip
It sure is, not many people are even aware of them much less seen one.
But I have know of a handful of them over the years, don't know where
one is now though.
John
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:52:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 82 Eagle
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610032252.k93MqIG12097@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "L. D. Lyons" <ldlyons@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" I have a chance to buy an 82 Eagle 4X4, 258, automatic
" 150K plus miles on it for $300.(has hail damage) The problem is that
" the tilt steering is really loose and the guy did not know what to do
" to fix it. He has another tilt steering coloum for it, How hard is it
" to change on of these.
saginaw tilts are famous for loosening up just like this. it isn't
wear - there's a joint down inside that's a little hard to get to but
it can be put right with iirc a long handled allen wrench.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:55:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610032255.k93Mtiu12156@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
['mexican' bellhousing]
" From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
"
"
"
" List,
" snip
" [2] rare? mine is the only one i've ever heard of actually existing.
" Snip
" It sure is, not many people are even aware of them much less seen one.
" But I have know of a handful of them over the years, don't know where
" one is now though.
well, you know where -one- is! ;^>
btw, mine didn't come from mexico - i got it from a fellow in arizona
who got it from a retired amc engineer in kenosha.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:33:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick ALFANO <71amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC in Print
To: amc list <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20061003233345.98692.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Thanks Dan, I appreciate the mention. The article had
a minor mistake or two on the engine but mostly
accurate. The car should run 11's in the 1/4 all day
long yet it doesn't run above 180 on the street, is
not too radical for stop and go traffic and can be
driven just about anywhere. He is real happy with it
so I was surprised when he called and told me he had
it on E-bay.
It would make a real nice car for someone. It has a
lot of high dollar upgrades done to it.
Nick Alfano
Alfano Performance
Kenosha, WI. 53142
262-308-1302
262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 2006 19:52:48 +0000
From: "dan whitehead" <freebird_58@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC in print
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<BAY111-F82B875B73ECD12D37C122941C0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Just picked up the Nov. Popular Hot Rodding to check
out the '70 AMX
being
sold on ebay. Nick, nice shot to the arm for you as
being noted for
building the engine. The car is very nice, but some
little things that
I
personally don't care for. It's nice seeing a good
write up on an AMX
though.
Dan Whitehead
'70 BBO Donohue
'69 AMX (now at a resto shop)
'82 Spirit daily driver
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 16:51:09 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 82 Eagle/Tilt Steering
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <001d01c6e746$d0b975a0$ccdc0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
SNIP
saginaw tilts are famous for loosening up just like this. it isn't
wear - there's a joint down inside that's a little hard to get to but
it can be put right with iirc a long handled allen wrench.
SNIP
This is true for the most part but it might be a Torx wrench rather
Allan wrench depending on the year. I have made this repair and it
is a good excuse to purchase a TSM as the instructions are in it
(Along with instructions for lots of other stuff) and it is doable.
It may require the rental of a tool to remove the lock plate and a
steering wheel puller if you do not have one. It is also not that
hard to switch out the steering column either, but that may also be
a good reason to purchase a TSM.
John
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 17:21:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 6 Speed GM automatics etc.
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610031721070.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, John Elle wrote:
> I run a 4 speed 904!
Where is this magical device you speak of!
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:29:20 -0600
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 6 Speed GM automatics etc.
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1159921760.45230060c29c1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Maybe it's the lockup converter he's thinking is 4th?
Ken
Quoting Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>:
> On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, John Elle wrote:
>
> > I run a 4 speed 904!
>
> Where is this magical device you speak of!
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 17:40:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod // backwards six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610031723390.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Well I didn't expect so many ideas from my hare-brained project
thunking... but I think when all is said and done, that if I
do decide to make a rod it will be conventional front engine,
rear drive, for the simple reason it is a no-brainer to assemble
with standard parts, and I can keep it all AMC, and that I have
a lot of the hard parts right now in my pile.
I guess I've decided that I want to build the Navarro test mule
motor into a hot rod; that I can make a Z exhaust pipe to get it
literally out of my face; that more usual hot rod chassis stuff
will be OK (I might afford to actually build and complete it).
I don't think the Navarro Rambler parts I have amounts to
anything historically preservable as-is; it's not a complete
motor, it's a pile of different motor parts, so building a hot
rod motor from it seems fine to me.
But with all the cogitations it appears that building a
reverse-rotation AMC six is pretty straightforward -- pending
directional oil seal issues etc I think it was Nick pointed out.
to wit:
* Replace timing chain with gear drive -- cam goes backwards.
* put chevy 6 gear on distrib -- now distributor forwards.
(but cam helical *lifts* distrib gear, not pulls it down
into the block) oil pump runs right direction. (note1)
* serpentine water pump with V belt or vice-versa, water
goes right direction.
* rewire starter for bass-ackwards rotation
note1: that's with a stock cam!
In stock form, the distributor shaft is pulled down via tooth
face friction onto the thrust washer in the distributor;
with stock cam run backwards/chevy dist gear, it would lift;
shimming the shaft to limit lift under the dist gear should
fix that, and oil would still walk up the shaft normally.
If the distributor gear direction does matter, then a custom
cam with "chevy" gear cut on it, and stock AMC distrib gear,
will accomplish the same thing.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 17:41:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610031740450.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> On Mon, 2 Oct 2006, Peter Marano wrote:
>
> > Bearing journals are polished in the direction of rotation (or at least
> > they used to be). The oil seal journal on the rear of the crankshaft
> > has directional knurling. I think the front seal has a directional
> > pattern molded in.
Oh sorry, it was Peter that noted this, not Nick.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 17:42:46 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Mid Engine d Hot Rod
Cc: AMC List <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610031741400.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Brien Tourville wrote:
> here's my buckets worth:
>
> take a hammer - place it on a cleared table.
>
> spin the hammer - try to make a circle.
>
> you can't.
Hmm well try this: perform your test twice. Once with the
hammer head pointing forward, and once again with it pointing
backwards. Compare results.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 17:47:05 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 82 Eagle/Tilt Steering
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: John Elle <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<26206617.1159922825407.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
If I was in any sort of hurry and lacked tools and knowledge plus had another complete column with key I'd swap the column.
Since I have the tools and knowledge I'd fix the column.
My point is either method will likely take about the same amount of time.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 17:49:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610031744130.19549@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, Sandwich Maker wrote:
> " wasn't there a relatively-recent corvette that had a transaxle? they
> " oughta be showing up in junkyards...
>
> found it! the '97-'04 c5... pic of the transaxle going into a camaro
> http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v225/davidesenia/CorvetteSuspensionSwap.jpg
> it's apparently a warner t56 coupled to a d44. there are aftermkt
> diff housings...
Nice! But it's still too long for mid-engine. The Halibrand
transaxle (used in #50) is REALLY SHORT, sort of visible in these
photos:
http://www.cacklefest.com/images/motor-mounted.jpg
http://www.cacklefest.com/images/striping-002.jpg
(Note distance motor to axle CL)
I regret regret regret not putting myself into debt to get
the rear from #50. I don't even remember the name of the guy
who bought it at the auction. It probably would have cost me
$2000 - $3000 to outbid him (baldfaced guess). I think he won
it for $1500. Such a deal!
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:13:01 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod // backwards six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<8859496.1159924381633.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
you might want to save a search for a Nash body from the teens or twenties to use for the tub. It would at least be somewhat in the family!
I always thought a 60's six with the aircooled trans would be a riculessly simple engine in T bucket type rod!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> Well I didn't expect so many ideas from my hare-brained project
> thunking... but I think when all is said and done, that if I
> do decide to make a rod it will be conventional front engine,
> rear drive, for the simple reason it is a no-brainer to assemble
> with standard parts, and I can keep it all AMC, and that I have
> a lot of the hard parts right now in my pile.
>
> I guess I've decided that I want to build the Navarro test mule
> motor into a hot rod; that I can make a Z exhaust pipe to get it
> literally out of my face; that more usual hot rod chassis stuff
> will be OK (I might afford to actually build and complete it).
>
> I don't think the Navarro Rambler parts I have amounts to
> anything historically preservable as-is; it's not a complete
> motor, it's a pile of different motor parts, so building a hot
> rod motor from it seems fine to me.
>
>
>
> But with all the cogitations it appears that building a
> reverse-rotation AMC six is pretty straightforward -- pending
> directional oil seal issues etc I think it was Nick pointed out.
>
> to wit:
>
> * Replace timing chain with gear drive -- cam goes backwards.
> * put chevy 6 gear on distrib -- now distributor forwards.
> (but cam helical *lifts* distrib gear, not pulls it down
> into the block) oil pump runs right direction. (note1)
> * serpentine water pump with V belt or vice-versa, water
> goes right direction.
> * rewire starter for bass-ackwards rotation
>
> note1: that's with a stock cam!
>
> In stock form, the distributor shaft is pulled down via tooth
> face friction onto the thrust washer in the distributor;
> with stock cam run backwards/chevy dist gear, it would lift;
> shimming the shaft to limit lift under the dist gear should
> fix that, and oil would still walk up the shaft normally.
>
> If the distributor gear direction does matter, then a custom
> cam with "chevy" gear cut on it, and stock AMC distrib gear,
> will accomplish the same thing.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:14:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] rambler hot rod // backwards six
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610040114.k941EX612889@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
"
" []
"
" I guess I've decided that I want to build the Navarro test mule
" motor into a hot rod; that I can make a Z exhaust pipe to get it
" literally out of my face; that more usual hot rod chassis stuff
" will be OK (I might afford to actually build and complete it).
what tranny are ya gonna run? my bellhousing could set you up for a
t-10... [or an amc-pattern richmond 5sp. they never nade an amc ver
of the 6sp, but it looks enough like their 5sp i bet inputs swap.]
" But with all the cogitations it appears that building a
" reverse-rotation AMC six is pretty straightforward -- pending
" directional oil seal issues etc I think it was Nick pointed out.
"
" to wit:
"
" * Replace timing chain with gear drive -- cam goes backwards.
" * put chevy 6 gear on distrib -- now distributor forwards.
" (but cam helical *lifts* distrib gear, not pulls it down
" into the block) oil pump runs right direction. (note1)
you'd only need -one- of these to reverse crank direction without
reversing distributor direction. with gear drive the cam is not
reversed; with the chevy cam and dist gears, the cam is reversed with
the crank.
" note1: that's with a stock cam!
"
" In stock form, the distributor shaft is pulled down via tooth
" face friction onto the thrust washer in the distributor;
" with stock cam run backwards/chevy dist gear, it would lift;
" shimming the shaft to limit lift under the dist gear should
" fix that, and oil would still walk up the shaft normally.
i'm not sure of this. the cam turns 'backwards', but the gear helix
is also 'backwards' - so the result should be 'normal' thrust! chevy
sixes cope with it...
" If the distributor gear direction does matter, then a custom
" cam with "chevy" gear cut on it, and stock AMC distrib gear,
" will accomplish the same thing.
ummm they're a set. you need both cam and dist gears to be chevy for
the cam to turn backwards without reversing the dist.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 18:16:06 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 6 Speed GM automatics etc.
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <002201c6e752$aefb5800$ccdc0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
SNIP
Maybe it's the lockup converter he's thinking is 4th?
Ken
SNIP
Actually I know it is!
But it got your attention!
In general that is what many of the newer electronic
Automatics are doing, splitting gears by locking and
un-locking the torque converter. Thus a 6 speed torque
flite can be created. Call it what ever number you want
by electronic controls and solenoids. You control
the split by the looseness of the torque-converter.
Of course with electronics, you precise control as
to when.
SNIP
Quoting Tom Jennings < <mailto:tomj@xxxxxxx> tomj@xxxxxxx>:
On Tue, 3 Oct 2006, John Elle wrote:
I run a 4 speed 904!
Where is this magical device you speak of!
SNIP
Change the spring tension of the valve that controls
the pressure that the torque converter locks up at and
you shift the miles per hour that it locks up at.
I have mine so it locks up at 55 mph.
There used to be kits available for this.
In 1980 there were apparently two available torque
Converters that you could have as stock, a low and a high stall unit.
I picked the wrong one, the low stall unit when I had mine
rebuilt, in the interest of fuel economy. Shortly I will
purchase a 2000 rpm stall lock up torque converter and
install it so there will be more affect. The high stall
torque converter in my AMX has about 500 rpm of slip in
it before it locks up which is a fair slip factor. (It locks up
at the 39mph level)
The Spirit will have more of an affect when I install the 2000
rpm stall lock up torque converter.
Now if you want to get clever you can also control the slip by
"Pulsing" the lock up thus varying the amount of slip you have.
With electronics and transmission control computers you can do
this.
However slip and heat are related characters and with today's
transmissions already doing a lot of this the lack of reliability
is already a proven commodity.
John
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 11
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