Re: [Amc-list] Ford assembly plant in brazil

[Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>]

Now let's keep this discussion civil and not get into personal reactions! 

Joe, I don't think anyone has a problem with US autos or workers in general. Yes, I have a problem with the unions -- they won't give in when times are bad and control the industry way more than they should. Auto workers in general make $5-$6 per hour more than all other types of factories in the US. Nothing against that, but it drives prices and cost of living higher. It's a vicious circle -- higher wages mean companies have to make more to pay them, which means consumers have to pay more, and they have to make more to pay the prices... etc. 

The UAW helped kill AMC. In the early 60s when AMC was doing well they wanted to share the wealth with employees and got into a contract that paid their workers a bit more than the average big three worker. When they started having problems in the 70s the union refused to back off any, and that continued into the 80s when the company was in dire straights. In the 90s GM had to close a plant, and the choice came down between an older one in Michigan and a a newer plant in Texas. Both had unions, but I'm not sure if the Texas plant was UAW. When the MI plant heard it was on the block, the union threatened to sue if GM tried to close the plant. The guys in TX said they were willing to make temporary concessions if it meant saving their jobs. Things like this are getting out of hand! If you ask me, the TX guys did the right thing -- they were willing to negotiate. Management doesn't always do the right thing I know, but when they do (in the AMC case above), they sometimes get bit
 , and hard! BOTH sides need to be willing to be reasonable. Unions were/are a necessity in some areas/industry, but they can be unreasonable at times. 

You're the only one I've heard complain about a Japanese company. They don't work like the UAW -- you do the work as expected or get out. Michelin tire is the same -- you get two write-ups in a 12 month period and on the third the boss can let you go or tell you it's the last one, their choice. The rules are pretty clear, and they do give some lee-way, especially for emergency situations, so there's no reason to be upset if you get canned (like my young nephew did... I'd have let him go too!). 

If there isn't any work to do because of lean sales you have to lay off workers, not put them in a pool and pay them to sit around like the UAW expects GM to do. Sorry, but it's just common sense that if you don't have the work you have to lay off employees without pay. Forcing a company to do otherwise is just plain wrong, and helps to make it so that those laid off may never get jobs back because the company can't recover when they are paying people who aren't doing anything. My hat is off to them for allowing the idle workers to do community service projects though, and to those union workers who do that rather than just sit and get paid. 

If you ask me, the best thing that could happen to the big three, especially GM, is to let them file for a reorganization bankruptcy. They have way too many high paid execs that do little to nothing, but collect big bonuses. A court overseen reorganization might be the only way to make the companies lean enough to run efficiently. They aren't much better than AIG and the other banks -- execs make millions with big bonuses and have expensive meetings even when the company isn't doing so well. You and I can't do that, they can be cause they are basically using other people's money to do it -- in the case of the banks recently it's OUR money.  They have to be forced to rethink the way they do business, and the best way would be to get rid of the high paid execs who have done more to cause the problems than to help. 

There are two sides to everything. The big problem is big companies don't always take care of their employees like they should, treating them more like cattle than people. Big unions seem to like to test the companies and see how far they can push sometimes, they almost run some industries (like the US auto industry). They don't always "play fair" either. It's like warfare, and one side has to win, not seeming to care about the other. It's just not a good way to do business in a highly competitive world -- both sides have to be fair to each other. Often they just aren't. 

-------------
Date: 19 Nov 2008 05:42:19 -0000
From: jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx

KEN...What are you against Unions or just against the US
manufacturing????????? Hmmmmm. HOW could we have won  WWII without
factories????  How the heck do you think workers get anything without any
unions???? I USED to work for a JAP car factory till they flushed 1200+ of us
4 years ago. Horrible treatment of workers while working there. Glad i'm gone!
Pay was pretty good..but..They are NUTS!! !!!! What is your problem with US
manufactured cars/trucks??? I'll put my 2004 F-150 4x4 up against any JAP
CRAP truck made!!! Also own a beautiful 2008 GT Mustang! Now...buy a
Dodge/GM/FORD....Leave the JAP/Korean..etc crap alone! Remember...MOST of the
parts are imported here!  JUSY my opinion. Thankyou,Joe.

-- 
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
(free download available!)


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