[Amc-list] Hydrogen thoughts and replys

[David Crooks <david.crooks@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

>
I'm lumping several replies together, as I use digest mode.  Hopefully I
don't cause too much confusion with my edits!

> Your right bad information should not be spread...
>
> Explain how getting hydrogen out of oil is better?
>
I never said getting hydrogen out of oil was better,
I said that was how it was done...

Currently, that's the cheapest, easiest way of producing it,
so that's where it comes from.

On Solar Power:
>
> But petro-derived electric power is more costly -- you're burning the
> furniture to heat the house.
I agree, but most of the power generated around here (Ontario) is either
nuclear or Hydro.  Coal and Petro account for 20-30%.  I really like the
idea of solar power.  Who doesn't?  I've been watching the price of
solar panels, and when they drop enough to have a reasonable pay
back time, I'll buy them.  Their efficiencies are getting better, but so
far, their prices have remained too high.  That's why they require
subsidized buy back plans to make them worthwhile.

>  that the Arabs may cut their own economic throats when Western users
> cut back on use as is going on right now and ever higher fuel prices  
> drive a
> public clamor for other energies.

Except that a lot of the current high oil prices have more to do with  
Wall
Street Commodity funds, rather than Opec.
>
>   I'll need to research cracking hydrogen from oil, yet that looks  
> to put us
> right back to deriving energy, albeit a "second party"- result, from  
> a source
> that depletes. Once you derive the hydrogen from the oil- I suppose  
> the oil
> still can be used for some purpose- but I can't see how you'd re- 
> derive the
> hydrogen from the oil. Also, what form (state- gas/fluid/solid ) is  
> hydrogen
> found other than "cracking" molecules?
In the olden times (ie >70 years ago), oil was refined by simple  
distillation
techniques.  In this manner light products, like gasoline, were  
separated
from intermediate products, like diesel, and heavy products, like
bunker C fuel oil.  Modern refineries use catalytic cracking  
techniques to
break the large hydrocarbon molecules of crude oil into whatever  
chemical
they want.  But there are no freebies!  If you crack everything to  
gasoline,
you get no diesel...

The fact that most Hydrogen comes from oil, was exactly the point I was
making.  You're NOT moving away from oil, by moving to Hydrogen.  You  
are
much much cleaner (which is a good thing!), but you're still relying  
on oil.

Things like Ethanol and Bio-Diesel, help move away from oil, but they  
don't
completely address CO2 emissions, and global warming.

And then there's the whole debate about food vs fuel.  Is it better to  
use
corn/soy crops for ethanol/diesel or to feed people?

It's a new world out there...

Dave
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