Re: [Amc-list] 61 classic super

["Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM" <Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

1. I've seen some M-8 cast iron trannys in 61 Americans. I wouldn't have
believed it if I hadn't saw it with my own eyes! It was at Tom
Kwiatkowski's "Rambler Ranch" in Charleston, SC. He pointed it out to me
during a visit years ago. Tom is a long-time Rambler guy, keeps the
AMCRC club store (has since the late 80s, I visited in mid 90s). It
COULD have been swapped in, as 61 was the first year for the aluminum
air-cooled trannys (58-60 Americans had iron units). The car looked all
original though, correct column and everything. We speculated that it
was an early production 61. Chances of finding one factory installed
now? However many they made to 1, I'd wager!

Aside from that, Andrew is correct, the iron model should be up to the
task of supporting a mild 360. Only one thing -- the six cylinder model
may have been made with lighter internal components and fewer clutch
discs. I doubt it had different hard components, but fewer discs and
maybe narrower bands is a possibility, as well as different friction
material. 

2. A 70-71 GEN-3 AMC V-8 can be mounted to a GEN-1 transmission by using
the GEN-3 bell, flexplate, and torque converter. That's if both are the
same series transmission (all cast iron should interchange, but aluminum
3x and 4x series use different front pumps as well -- ask Justin
Shelton!). Better yet, use the entire GEN-3 engine/trans and just swap
the tailshaft housing. I'm not 100% sure it's that easy -- the output
shaft may have to be changed as well. Depends on the output shaft length
of the GEN-3 trans. I'm reasonably sure all the cast iron BW trannys had
the same output shaft size/splines. There might be speedo gear changes
necessary as well. I know 58-63 American drive the speedo off the bottom
of the output shaft, 64+ off the top. This causes the speedos to turn
opposite of each other. 

3. All 196 and 199 powered cars got the AMC15. All sixes in small cars
got the AMC 15, 67 and later big cars all use an AMC20. I THINK the
AMC15 was used behind the 199 in big cars, which was only available in
1966 as a fleet option. I don't think many big cars were built with the
199 -- would have been quite a dog (compared to modern cars). Ask anyone
with a 196 63-64 Classic... adequate power, but that's all!! Yeah, I
drove my first 63 Classic wagon around for a couple months with a
196/1V. Make sure you're good at judging speed of oncoming traffic! 




--------------
Date: Sunday, February 25, 2007 07:34 PM
From: andrew hay <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
"
" On Sun, 25 Feb 2007, JT wrote:
"
" > I have a 1961 Classic Super with a bad 195.6 I'm looking to put a
AMC
" > 340 or 360 in it. Will these engines bolt to my auto trans ???
"
" The short answer is no, not even close. The torque tube/enclosed
" driveline cars use the older trans and bell housing patterns, and
" are different 6 and 8. Also, a 8 of any kind will probably eat
" the transmission that's in there (little 3-speed or air-cooled
" auto).

hold on a second!  when did they start using the aluminum warner?  if
this car still has the iron warner the engine swap isn't so
impossible.  a 360 would have to be a '70-1 and it would be smart to
use a matching warner auto with the '61 torque tube adapter.

" Unfortunately I believe that for 1961 that's your only "bolt in"
" choice -- besides another early six -- since that year still
" has the motor mounts up at the front of the engine.

everything else about the swap is still a lot of work, and i don't
know if the rear axle is up to it - does the super have an amc15 or
amc20?

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