AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 46
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 46
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- Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2006 03:22:52 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Jeffrey A Bohler is out of the office.
(Jeffrey.Bohler@xxxxxxxxxxxx)
2. Re: E-stick (Tom Jennings)
3. Re: E-stick (Mark Price)
4. Re: E-stick (Tom Jennings)
5. Re: Was E-Stick, Now Drivers (JOE FULTON)
6. exhaust pipes (Wayne E LaMothe)
7. Firestone (Mahoney, John)
8. Re: Was E-Stick, Now Drivers (RetroRalph)
9. Re: exhaust pipes (Jay)
10. Re: Was E-Stick, Now Drivers (Jay)
11. Re: E-stick (Matt Haas)
12. Re: exhaust pipes (Matt Haas)
13. Re: E-stick (Sandwich Maker)
14. Re: Was E-Stick, Now Drivers (Tom Jennings)
15. Re: What's it from/for Metropolitin swap???!!! (Ken Ames)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:34:13 -0600
From: Jeffrey.Bohler@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] Jeffrey A Bohler is out of the office.
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<OF6750D5A6.6A7852F6-ON8625724A.006B80BB-8625724A.006B80BB@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
I will be out of the office starting 12/19/2006 and will not return until
12/26/2006.
I will respond to your message when I return. You may contact Tom Stratman
or Lisa Kuntz for immediate assistamce at 0-4181.
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:01:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E-stick
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612201257040.5995@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM wrote:
> It looks and sounds more complicated than it is. Poor vacuum and oil
> pressure would kill it before a bad switch. At least from what I
> remember (will have to look over a TSM again!) a bad switch should be
> obvious -- like grinding going into a gear or something. For
> deceleration the servo compared engine vacuum with oil pressure. The
> amazing thing is the engineers managed to make it all work without a
> speed or motion sensor, they extrapolated that MECHANICALLY with vacuum,
> oil pressure, and shift lever position information only!! Smart guys...
Oh yeah, it's not a stupid system. It's pretty damn clever,
failsafe, etc. The only real shortcoming is one common to older
lower-cost systems: one thing performing two functions that has
"side effects".
Oil pressure is a signal (engine speed) and hydraulic power for
the clutch; the latter makes is sensitive to worn motors. If it
simply controlled the energy from some other source eg. remained
only a signal, it would have worked better, but cost a lot more,
eg. add an electric motor servo to slave the clutch to it.
At least, the way it dies is de-clutched, which is better
death-on-the-side-of-the-road than clutch always engaged.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:03:00 -0800
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E-stick
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <9887329.1166648580698.JavaMail.root@web26>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I drove one in perfect working order as late as 1985-6!
It was creepy! To shift with no clutch! Everyone should get to drive one once! what blast! Just hit the gas and go, let off the gas, shift and nail it again!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM wrote:
>
> >
> > Actually, I see no reason it shouldn't be compatible with overdrive.
> > When you let off the gas to go into over drive it might declutch, but I
> > don't think that would be a problem. OD would still come in as long as
> > the car was moving fast enough. Kicking down OD should have no effect.
>
> There's servo gunk to make it engine-brake on decelleration,
> where it would seem it would want to simply declutch. It's really
> complicated! Did you drive one in perfect working order?
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 13:39:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E-stick
To: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612201337220.5995@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, Mark Price wrote:
> I drove one in perfect working order as late as 1985-6!
> It was creepy! To shift with no clutch! Everyone should get to drive one once! what blast! Just hit the gas and go, let off the gas, shift and nail it again!
Wow, that sounds fun! Weird-but-functional is good in cars,
to me.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 14:02:35 -0800 (PST)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Was E-Stick, Now Drivers
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <740903.16311.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Mark said:
I drove one in perfect working order as late as
1985-6!
It was creepy! To shift with no clutch! Everyone
should get to drive one once!
what blast! Just hit the gas and go, let off the gas,
shift and nail it
again!
------------------------------
Would it not be neat to have an AMC meet in a large
park with plenty of room and low-traffic streets,
where owners could let others borrow their cars to see
how they drive?
The latest issue of Hemmings Classic Car comes to
mind, which features Cadillac Eldorados of different
vintage. How neat to get behind the wheel of
something unique (and most AMCs are unique now) and do
your own drive report. I'm not talking about
burnouts, just safe and sane driving to let another
hobbyist experience the car. I would loan my Javelin
in a heartbeat if I could get the chance to drive a
bathtub Nash, stepdown Hudson, etc.
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 17:00:42 -0500
From: Wayne E LaMothe <superglider@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] exhaust pipes
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061220.170133.1432.0.superglider@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Since the only place that makes exhaust pipes is over 30 miles away and
the J10 has no pipes on it, I can't get the truck to them. Is there any
place that sells old cars exhaust parts? NAPA does not list either the
tailpipe or the intermediate pipe. I might have to bring my pieces in to
see what they can bend up to match.
Any leads?
Thanks
Wayne
66 Ambo 990 wagon, 327, auto, PS, PDB, PW, 69 Ambo 2 dr, 401 M12
83 Eagle Limited, 82 Eagle SX/4
88 J10, a real truck
2001 XJ, 2000 Cirrus (both hers)
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:01:13 -0500
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Firestone
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<BFF496024CD8E8499845576906CA0F190D3025@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Since I spent Thanksgiving in CA, last weekend was spent in NY doing <ugh> last minute Christmas shopping. Monday, I went to a taping of the "Martha" show (Renee plugged her CD and [tonight's] PBS "double-header" [Mormon Tabernacle at 8; Mainz Cathedral at 9]) and was stunned to see the domestic ex-felon do a segment on tire inflation! Who knew? What next? "Pimpin' Cars Classically"? May or may not be a good thing.
>>
installed the Hemi and the wiring but wants to french the headlights
and can't use the original headlight rims from the Hudson as they are
pot metal. I;ve learned the some customizers have used the 52/53 Ford
hieadlight rims, but so far he can't find any. Does anyone on this list
jave a set of these rims ? Or.....can you suggest an alternate rim ??
<<
A very economical choice today comes from the Corinthian period:
http://www.tocmp.com/pix/images/1976ChryslerCordobaSportCoupe.jpg
(And then he might be able to call is car a "Hudson Barcelona" also...)
Speaking of which, did anyone here discuss/investigate these eBay cars?
'81 "Concord Barcelona" offered by a seller in, of all places, Kenosha. Item number: 170049752878. Hmmm; the only one with leather upholstery?
and an "almost fully restored" Gremlin (260052304936); by "experienced, knowledgeable and professional classic car restorers" in Texas. With sails-n-seats just like AMC built 'em, then, eh?
>>
Would it not be neat to have an AMC meet in a large
park with plenty of room and low-traffic streets,
where owners could let others borrow their cars to see
how they drive?
<<
An LA friend does something somewhat similar: he and a dozen or so old car owners go "low-speed" cruising up in the hills. They -never- drive fast --- so their caravan cannot be infiltrated by potential incautious drivers --- and they sometimes switch off driving each -others'- vehicles. Fact that all their cars are valuable (or that they're all millionaires?) may make the equation work, but the result is fun on Sunday mornings.
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 15:21:55 -0800
From: "RetroRalph" <retroralph@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Was E-Stick, Now Drivers
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <002601c7248d$a459b680$6400a8c0@ralphs1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
Dodges of the 1940's had what they called "Fluid Drive" that was a torque
converter with a regular clutch assembly on it with a regular 3-speed
transmission. You couldn't wear out a clutch with those things. And could
take off in 3rd gear although was pretty slow start... It was handy though
for icy hilly roads we had. This was behind their flathead 6 engine. It
was in my first car (1942 Dodge Business coupe, cost $15)
I think they had this in Chryslers and DeSoto's at the time, also. And in
49->50 model 1/2 tom pickups. I think it was a bust, though, as they were
not very good for response performance. Plymouth performed better and drove
smooth enough without that. More economical, too, without all that driveline
slippage. They were almost as bad as the Powerglide Chevy or a Buick
Dynaflow.
I never drove or had even seen a twinstick anything but kind of sounds like
they were similar driving as the old Fluid Drive Dodge and De Soto of 1940's
and early 1950's (before their V8 models).
That was before AMC (1954). Didn't see much of anything that said "Rambler"
on it. Not until 1955-57 when they became more popular.
______________________________________________________________
Ralph Ausmann - Hillsboro, OR - > <ralph.ausmann@xxxxxxxxx>
----- Original Message -----
From: "JOE FULTON" <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2006 2:02 PM
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Was E-Stick, Now Drivers
> Mark said:
>
> I drove one in perfect working order as late as
> 1985-6!
> It was creepy! To shift with no clutch! Everyone
> should get to drive one once!
> what blast! Just hit the gas and go, let off the gas,
> shift and nail it
> again!
>
> ------------------------------
> Would it not be neat to have an AMC meet in a large
> park with plenty of room and low-traffic streets,
> where owners could let others borrow their cars to see
> how they drive?
>
> The latest issue of Hemmings Classic Car comes to
> mind, which features Cadillac Eldorados of different
> vintage. How neat to get behind the wheel of
> something unique (and most AMCs are unique now) and do
> your own drive report. I'm not talking about
> burnouts, just safe and sane driving to let another
> hobbyist experience the car. I would loan my Javelin
> in a heartbeat if I could get the chance to drive a
> bathtub Nash, stepdown Hudson, etc.
>
> Joe Fulton
> Salinas, CA
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:25:45 -0500
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] exhaust pipes
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <002b01c72496$8f257700$b29b1ecf@Ciampi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Waldron Exhaust systems in Michigan can make you a system and ship it to you
for your installation. His location and phone numbers are in Hemmings motor
News. I don't have a copy right now or I could give you the specifics. He
made my exhaust for me several years ago and did a good job. He shipped the
pipes to Florida to my house.
Jay
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 19:30:39 -0500
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Was E-Stick, Now Drivers
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <004001c72497$3e1df200$b29b1ecf@Ciampi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I owned a 1948 Hudson Comnmodore 8 sedan that had a similar clutch
arrangement. Once you were in 1st gear, you just had to let up on the gas to
shift to 2nd gear with the column mounted lever. the clutch automatically
disengaged when you let up the gas pedal.(or accelerator pedal, if you so
choose to call it). It worked neatly.
Jay
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:23:48 -0500
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E-stick
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4589E224.70703@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
<snip>
> It was creepy! To shift with no clutch! Everyone should get to drive one once! what blast! Just hit the gas and go, let off the gas, shift and nail it again!
</snip>
I wonder if there's an adapter to mate a Jericho tranny to AMC? With the
exception of having to push the clutch in when stopped, it sounds like
the same sort of shifting.
Matt
--
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:31:49 -0500
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] exhaust pipes
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4589E405.4040204@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
If you have head pipes, can't you just stick cheap mufflers on it and
drive over? Also, they should be able to bend the pipes up for you if
the truck is pretty much stock. The Midas by me had no problem bending
up a pipe for my 68 American.
Matt
Wayne E LaMothe wrote:
> Since the only place that makes exhaust pipes is over 30 miles away and
> the J10 has no pipes on it, I can't get the truck to them. Is there any
> place that sells old cars exhaust parts? NAPA does not list either the
> tailpipe or the intermediate pipe. I might have to bring my pieces in to
> see what they can bend up to match.
>
> Any leads?
>
> Thanks
>
> Wayne
> 66 Ambo 990 wagon, 327, auto, PS, PDB, PW, 69 Ambo 2 dr, 401 M12
> 83 Eagle Limited, 82 Eagle SX/4
> 88 J10, a real truck
> 2001 XJ, 2000 Cirrus (both hers)
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
>
>
--
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 21:31:26 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] E-stick
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612210231.kBL2VQT17201@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
"
" <snip>
" > It was creepy! To shift with no clutch! Everyone should get to drive one once! what blast! Just hit the gas and go, let off the gas, shift and nail it again!
" </snip>
"
" I wonder if there's an adapter to mate a Jericho tranny to AMC? With the
" exception of having to push the clutch in when stopped, it sounds like
" the same sort of shifting.
isn't the jerico based on the ford toploader? if so, no adapter
needed! jsut use late-'70s t150 bell...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 18:29:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Was E-Stick, Now Drivers
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612201826000.18736@unit>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
On Wed, 20 Dec 2006, JOE FULTON wrote:
> Would it not be neat to have an AMC meet in a large
> park with plenty of room and low-traffic streets,
> where owners could let others borrow their cars to see
> how they drive?
That would be unbelievably great.
It would be a hell of a way to get import-scene kids to check
out old cars -- and (us) geezers to try out theirs! Swap!
There is some risk to both parties favorite toys, but hey,
my Rambler is pretty indestructable.
Joe, that's a great idea.
My 63 Classic totally freaks out valet parkers, they can't
find the ignition key hole, never mind parking brake, etc. 17"
steering wheel freaks them out.
Wanna impress an import-scene kid? Drive straight over curbstones
with your 8" ground clearance Rambler! Thump bump! Damn things
reach the radiator in those lowered cars.
> I would loan my Javelin
> in a heartbeat if I could get the chance to drive a
> bathtub Nash, stepdown Hudson, etc.
I've been hankering to drive something really old for some time,
1930's or whatever; I'm thinking that long-term, I may go that
route for fun and challenge.
I bet a lot of marques would love to have other people check
out how cool it is to drive their cars.
The muscle car people, I can see might be wary, ignorant people
tend to act out cliches without thought (eg. teaching young
men to shoot guns; been there done that, scary!).
------------------------------
Message: 15
Date: Wed, 20 Dec 2006 20:22:47 -0700
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] What's it from/for Metropolitin swap???!!!
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1166671367.4589fe07268dc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
I imagine the zero rpm refers to the output/power turbine, not the compressor
turbine. Torque is the twisting force - you don't have to be moving to have
torque. Just ask anyone stuggling with a rusted bolt. :)
Ken
Quoting "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM" <Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> I looked at the site. It's obvious you can't have ANY torque at ZERO
> rpm!! Okay, I understand what you're saying -- that from idle the engine
> can be loaded up and have almost immediate full torque. Technically it
> should have given torque as "from idle" or listed idle rpm... which is
> probably in the neighborhood of 5K+ (could be 10K+ for a turbine, but I
> doubt that one was a high speed turbine). That would have been more
> correct to me. But then they did list torque at OUTPUT SHAFT speed. You
> have to look at the specs twice to catch exactly what they mean! When
> used to looking at piston engine specs, it's misleading at first -- but
> so is comparing apples to oranges!! I was referring to engine speed, not
> output shaft speed. What Chrysler meant was with the engine running it
> would have 425 lb/ft or torque available right from the start, and
> wouldn't bog down and take time to produce pulling power like a piston
> engine does. But the turbine has to be up to running speed first. They
> don't take long to warm up once started, it should be ready to turn up
> to redline from ignition in 5-10 seconds, but it must be up to speed.
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 46
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