AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 23

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Today's Topics:

   1. Auto insurance is cheap for these cars! (Michael Pell)
   2. Speed Channel American Motors AMX (Nick ALFANO)
   3. Re: 200 miles on this rebuild??? (Jim Blair)
   4. Re: Re; Disc rear interchange/now Eagle Fender Flares (Jim Blair)
   5. Re: Disc rear interchange/now Eagle Fender Flares (John Elle)
   6. Speed Channel's "American Motors AMX" show (Tom Jennings)
   7. Stuffing an EAGLE (Brien Tourville)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 20:09:19 -0500
From: Michael Pell <mjpell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Auto insurance is cheap for these cars!
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4553D13F.30305@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Too funny (to me).  For my '61 Wagon, full coverage,  an "agreed" value 
of $3,000, and liability only costs me $18 per year! 
At least that was the quote.  Wow!


>  
>


-- 

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 17:42:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Nick ALFANO <71amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Speed Channel American Motors AMX
To: amc list <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20061110014217.59956.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

The story of the AMX is on the Speed Channel right
now.

Nick Alfano
Alfano Performance
Kenosha, WI. 53142
262-308-1302
262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends

Alfano Performance
Kenosha, WI. 53142
262-308-1302
262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:07:41 -0800
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 200 miles on this rebuild???
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F554D1281000EFD44DFAACACF70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

A: To get it looking like that, it would have to be 200 miles in first gear 
out ain a field somewhere at high RPMs! (my '62 Nova with 194 6 looked like 
that after a few weeks of field driving on the farm after putting in a clean 
"new", but oil leaky motor)


From: Justin Shelton <hydeparker@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 200 miles on this rebuild???
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1E17C6FA7F6.00000242hydeparker@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Hmmm . . . seller claims only 200 miles on this engine, yet it
looks pretty grimey.  Even if that rebuild was done 10 years
ago, I'm not sure how so much oiley grime would have accumulated
on the valve cover and block, even if it was parted out in an
open field.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1962-Rambler-Classic_W0QQitemZ320047070104QQihZ011QQcategoryZ6783QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem



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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 19:12:15 -0800
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Re; Disc rear interchange/now Eagle Fender
	Flares
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F12D703D7DDE42CD0E2B4CAACF70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

But, we are talking about an XJ rear diff and not an Eagle one into the 
Spirit. That narrow width may be for the SX4 and not the Eagle wagon/sedans. 
The flares were added (and required) to cover the tires from throwing stuff 
onto the vehicle behind them. Front suspension was lifted to make it 4x4 
because that was the closest they could get to the oil pan with a diff and 
have the axles level.


From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Re; Disc rear interchanges/now Eagle Fender
Flares
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000001c70463$c54deb80$40de0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"


I am not sure all of the following is correct;

Snip
I meant that on the '82 Spirit, the wheel wells are shallower
than the
Eagle, so if my friend put an XJ axle in (which is 2" wider)
with XJ
rims
(to tuck the tires further in) in the "normal" Spirit axle
position
(axle on
top of springs) the tires may still stick out past the wheel
well
openings
and/or hit the fender lip or top. Eagles got around this issue
with
fender
flares and the axle under the springs (which gave it 4" of lift
too)
Snip

If my some what aging memory is not overly faulty it seemed to
me that
the Eagle had to be lifted to allow all of the four wheel drive
mechanics fit under the chassis. This was the primary reason for
lifting
although at the time 4 wheel drive vehicles had more ground
clearance
than 2 wheel drive vehicles so that may have been a supporting
reason
too. But it seems to me that it had to be raised to get stuff to
fit.

Once raised it looked silly, sort of like a Concord driving
around on
stilts so the fender flares were incorporated along with the
ground
affects to fill in the gap between the fender openings and the
wheels
and to visually lower the car. I could be wrong, but it does not
seem to
me that the flares were added to enhance the use of wider axles
or
tires.
The 1980 product and information hand book lists 15 inch wheels
as
standard equipment on the Eagle only and not available on other
models.
Although the 1980 AMC TSM lists the tread width front @59.6
inches and
rear @57.6 inches while a Concord is 58.4 inches front and rear
is 57.5

The rear numbers are almost identical (these are for a 4 door)
which to
me implies pretty much standard interchangeable parts and the
difference
between 14 and 15 inch wheels maybe. The front differences could
be for
a lot of reasons but probably to give room to get the 4whd parts
out to
the front wheels. 1.2 inches or .6 inches per side does not seem
very
big looking at it this way.

I am sure the flares allowed some latitude in wheel size and
width for
aftermarket but out of the factory I sure believe they were
there to
foster the allusion of being lower to the ground.

For what it's worth.
John.

_________________________________________________________________
Find a local pizza place, music store, museum and more?then map the best 
route!  http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:55:12 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Disc rear interchange/now Eagle Fender Flares
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000001c70484$6c1ea3d0$40de0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

 
Ah! But!
 
Snip
But, we are talking about an XJ rear diff and not an Eagle one into the
Spirit. That narrow width may be for the SX4 and not the Eagle
wagon/sedans.
The flares were added (and required) to cover the tires from throwing
stuff
onto the vehicle behind them. Front suspension was lifted to make it 4x4
because that was the closest they could get to the oil pan with a diff
and
have the axles level.
Snip
 
The tread widths I referred to were Concord Sedan to Eagle Sedan so one
could make (hopefully) an apples to apples comparison. Thus suggesting
that on the rear of the Eagle Sedan and the Rear of the Concord sedan
there was no need for the flares if the object of them was to keep the
tires from throwing road grunge onto the sides of the car or the car
behind them. Much the same that a low rider does now with the extremely
widely spaced wire wheels and the comically narrow rubber tires ;-)
And as you point out the object of the lift was to fit the front
suspension under the engine which was relocated anyway a bit and the
floor pan modified to clear the bell housing, xfer case and transmission
leaving you with front seats that would not interchange between the two
cars, however that is a different story. 
So if you have to lift the front, you there for have to lift the rear to
level the car out some what anyway. 
Which brings back to the point I was trying to bring up. I believe the
purpose of the flares were to fill in the gaps between the now raised
body and the tires and ground to give the allusion of being lower to the
ground as a cosmetic function pretty much only. 
 
The rear tread on a Spirit and an AMX was 57 inches in 1980. I do not
have a figure for an SX4 but the 2 door, 4 door and wagon for the Eagle
was 57.6 inches. 
The AMX of course had flares also. Supposedly I guess to cover the
performance oriented rear tires which were the same tires as offered on
the regular Spirit thus when so equipped looked a little funky by them
self as they sort of stood out from the fenders a little like Prince
Charles ears.  The Standard tire for a Spirit in 1980 I believe was a
P195/ 75 R 14. Even with the optional Tire of  DR70 14 which I believe
came with the magnum 500 style wheels, the tire did not project far
enough out from the rear fenders to require the flares which were
standard on the AMX. 
The optional optional tire of ER60 -14 for the AMX using the "Dukes of
Hazard  turbine type wheels filled up the wheel wells well enough to
make the flare look functional. On my AMX, I am using P205 -70 -14's and
the fit is still under the fender using the OEM syle Magnum 500 wheels.
While on my Spirit I am using P245-60 - R 14's on aftermarket aluminum
wheels and the fit nicely under the fender well with no rubbing anywhere
and I do travel with the car heavily loaded when Valerie and I make a
road trip as her mobility scooter is carried with us in the car. The
point is there is plenty of room under the fender well for some very
large wheel and tire combinations. The AMX Flare option really is
strictly cosmetic for the most part but looks better with bigger wheels
and tire fitted. Thus I would imagine the SX4 Eagle flare would be
basically the same way. Not needed for flinging grung but needed to give
the allusion the car was not raised. 
 
Thus I am suggesting maybe that with the wider axle you are
contemplating installing one might take a look at Carvan wheels and
tires which have a fairly deep offset that would space the wheel back
towards the center of the car. I have a set of  16 inch with a tire
mounted, I don't off hand remember the size of the tire but standard for
a 1996 town and country. I also have a set of 15 inch Bronco wheels with
a 75 series tire mounted and a 70 series tire mounted that are now on my
Town and Country. The off set is not as great with these wheels but all
of them mount on an AMC hub. (with minor modifications to the Bronco
wheels). I would bet that one of these combinations would allow you to
mount the axle in question with out having the need to raise the car up
so the fenders would clear the wheels and they would fit inside the
existing wheel well the negating the need to install Eagle Flares to
cover the protruding wheels or what ever. 
 
If this is an experiment in what fits I would be glad to take
measurements with any and all wheel combinations I have and feed them
back or !!!!! you could buy a set of wire wheel hub caps, let the wheels
hang out anyway and get a chrome chain steering wheel and when you drive
the car, slouch so you can just see over the dash board and under the
steering wheel. ;-)
 
My thoughts on the subject anyway. 
Later 
John.
 
 
 


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 23:47:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Speed Channel's "American Motors AMX" show
To: AMC List <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611092326130.13202@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Just watched it.


Pretty good show! Covered, minimally but accurately, AMC's
history, their economy background, changing small-car market
in the early 1960's as background.

Instead of disappearing the Ramblers and stodgy non-performance
brethren, the AMX is accurately contextualized in AMC's product
line. Pretty flattering while remaining honest. Multiple
references to the fact that the Corvette was it's only product
competitor.

Lotsa good car pictures, though a few too many of the same
dragstrip takeoffs, and not enough historic footage (a bit of
Breedlove, Donohue, Penske was nice) (but then I'm not a drag
racing enthusiast :-)

So who's the AMC nut that made this show?  Most of the cars
and drivers are in Georgia, so I'd guess it's some Peach
State AMC-er.  And how did they get a car TV show to go
along? Congratulations times 10!



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 02:47:28 -0500
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Stuffing an EAGLE
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4553E840.26977.BB0889B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII





If my some what aging memory is not overly faulty it seemed to me 
that the
Eagle had to be lifted to allow all of the four wheel drive mechanics 
fit
under the chassis. This was the primary reason for lifting although 
at the
time 4 wheel drive vehicles had more ground clearance than 2 wheel 
drive
vehicles so that may have been a supporting reason too. But it seems 
to me
that it had to be raised to get stuff to fit. 


===============================


I'll say no, most all the 'stuff' gets 'stuffed' due to the floor pan 
being 'a specialty item' > a huge off-set 'hump' inside the vehicle 
that allows the engine & trans to snug up to the otherwise bottom
of the vehicle.

Long distance driving finds that 'convex legged' folk having a much
more comfortable time of it.

The floor-pan design in the EAGLE deserves  more discussion
as it is unique - however - at the moment I'm to catch a 5:15 AM
Metro North Train to NYC Grand Central Terminal for a 6:45 AM
snack before hitting NYU College.

I shall leave the 'Floor Illustration ' to / in the capable hands of
AMC raconteur and Don Johnson stunt double ...Elvis 
impersonator.......... wanted in  three States for Bond 'kite-ing',
Mr. John [ MD 20-20 ] Mahoney {~ ]   !



  
        =Bt=
  milnersXcoupe
   "The Heretic"



------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 23
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