Re: [AMC-List] Charity AMX

[tbenvie@xxxxxxxxxxx]

Frank, you are killing me!

"I'm NOT going to get upset with you or your last post."

Good, I didn't make anything up, so whjy would you?

"though I did have more of an idea of the length of time it could take) "

Really-and you never shared this, that it would be a 6-7 year project?  Just how many cars have you done to base your decision?

"I wrote.... "

Yes, it became almost a one man show.  I would hope you time in the military would have taught you how to delegate, form subgroups or committees, etc (cause it did me).

"The AMC hobby in general KNOWS about this car"

Yet there were posts from people who did not....


"I KNEW it would take a lot of time, but it's taken more time than even I expected"

See above-your statement you knew it would take a long time.

"If you have lots of time to devote to finishing the car it COULD be done in a couple months, but is there any point in rushing the job now? Or is it just that you have the time right now and think you may not later?"

I wouldn't have volunteered if I couldn't do it.

"Send me a personal e-mail if you want to discuss this point, public forums is not the place. "

What is there to discuss.  i told you I could work on the car, i am willing to work on the car, I just need the car.

"I KNEW that would be the nature of the project as it went along, there has ALWAYS been the POTENTIAL that someone around the car could/would INTENTIONALLY swap some part(s) out for their personal benefit. "

You actual say you knew this in advance.....?

"Each team was supposed to do their own "bush beating""

Says who?  The rest of us couldn't help?  that is the problem Frank-people who wanted to help felt left out without more publicity, input, etc.

"None of the big name guys like Summit, but we really don't need aftermarket parts."

Cash????

" the only reason I accepted the car"

You are killing me again!  YOU accepted the car???  Go back in time Frank.  The car was donated to the list, not you, your magazine, or anything/anyone else.  It came about from a disussion on the List that was all talk-I donated the car as a "put up or shut up" proposition.  Nobody was in charge.  People got together and a great idea (which was not mine-I did  not start the donation idea, I joined in, same as you) came to happen.  I don't know how you came to think you are in charge-you were starting your magazine, and it was a good fit, so no complaints that someone volunteered to coordinate this.  For that, you should be thanked.

"I would like the project to get out to another group before it goes back to Boston for final disposition. "

And how is this YOUR decision?  This is the AMC hobbies car.  YOU do not have the right to make decisions based on what Frank wants.

"You offered taking it last year and I thought hard about it."

Still thinking?  What has happened in the meantime?

"I expect you're going to publicly criticize everything that was done other than what you expected or would have done. "

"don't think you'd have done any better, just given up and pulled it back to finish yourself"

You really don't know me at all.

"would have been chosen"

But they weren't offered, were they?


Bottom line, Frank-the car has a lot done to it.  The people behind the scenes, those who donated time, money, space, etc. would like to see the project finished.  The good news is the price of a 70 AMX has skyrocketed since the car was started.

The car can be done in short order.  A number of our local guys have award winning cars, have done a number of restorations, and in all honesty are ready for the challenge.  the more you wait, the longer it will take to get done.  For instance, if we miss the Jan. auction, when is the next one?  Where will the car go in the meantime?  You don't have a few weeks.  People have offered to pay for transport now.  It is not your decision Frank, it is not mine.  It is the AMC communities car.  Let's here from them before a decision is made, but let's make a decision in the next few days to get this going again.

--
Thomas M. Benvie

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: farna@xxxxxxx
> You know Tom, I'm NOT going to get upset with you or your last post. This has 
> been a massive undertaking, more so than anyone who started it (including you 
> and I, though I did have more of an idea of the length of time it could take) 
> could have expected. I wrote a few letters to Hot Rod and and a couple other 
> mags shortly after this started -- they never got published. The AMC hobby in 
> general KNOWS about this car -- it's been talked about a lot on the List and the 
> Forum. Club members have been asked to take the info to their club meetings and 
> see what they could do. Vendors have stepped up and donated a lot of parts. 
> Individuals and a few clubs HAVE stepped up and donated a lot. I KNEW it would 
> take a lot of time, but it's taken more time than even I expected. I expected 
> the car to be ready to go to auction last year. I wouldn't have been 
> disappointed if it was ready to go now. If you have lots of time to devote to 
> finishing the car it COULD be done in a couple months, but is ther
> e any point in rushing the job now? Or is it just that you have the time right 
> now and think you may not later? Send me a personal e-mail if you want to 
> discuss this point, public forums is not the place. Or call me at 302-233-4925. 
> 
> I know parts have been misplaced and "lost in the shuffle", and a few decisions 
> were made on site that I probably wouldn't have made, and I've made decissions 
> that you probably wouldn't have made -- I'm sure it would have been the other 
> way around had our roles been reveresed. I KNEW that would be the nature of the 
> project as it went along, there has ALWAYS been the POTENTIAL that someone 
> around the car could/would INTENTIONALLY swap some part(s) out for their 
> personal benefit. I don't think that has happened, though some things have 
> obviously been misplaced/lost during transportation and changing of hands. There 
> have been honest efforts to minimize this, but surely you didn't think the car 
> could go half way around the coutnry,change hands several times, and not have 
> some of that happen? 
> 
> Each team was supposed to do their own "bush beating" and publicity. Most got 
> some nice local coverage, even Dave got a mention in one of the local papers 
> shortly after he took over the car. As I stated earlier, the general hobby 
> magazines don't seem to care. Maybe now that the car is nearing completion we 
> can get some interest though. I'll make another effort. There HAS been donations 
> outside the hobby. One AACA chapter sent in a donation, and I know that the GA, 
> FL, and TX teams solicited some parts from local suppliers (GA got an amount of 
> credit for whatever they needed from NAPA, for example). Dave DeLabio got a 
> local paint and supply company to donate all the materials (and Zion Auto Body 
> to do the work), and the FL guys got a wheel restorer to powder coatthe wheels. 
> Check the web page out again 
> (http://www.mattsoldcars.com/charityamx/index.html). None of the big name guys 
> like Summit, but we really don't need aftermarket parts. I'll be writing 
> Legendary for seat covers soon.
> 
> 
> The car needed much more body work than anticipated, yes. And other work. "Good 
> for a New England car" isn't saying a lot -- there are lots of southern and 
> western cars with great bodies, but then they need everything else. But we have 
> more people in the hobby capable and willing to do "everything else" -- lots of 
> body work isn't in most people's repertoire of skills -- with some exceptions 
> such as yourself. 
> 
> A 70 AMX means there are lots of one year only parts. We have most of them with 
> the car, which was a big help though (as you pointed out), and the only reason I 
> accepted the car. All the work and POSSIBLE problems meant the car would be a 
> 3-5 year project instead of a 2-3 year one though, I knew that from the 
> beginning. The reason it takes so long is people have lives to live, and it has 
> to be transported and "started from scratch" at each location. That means it's a 
> year at a location and only about three months of weekends are actual work. You 
> don't always have much time to work on projects either. The car had to be 
> transported, which took a month or two to arrange, then off loaded with parts 
> which were inventoried, decissions made as to what work would be attempted, then 
> publicity/donations sought, time found for the work, etc. It takes a lot of 
> time!! 
> 
> All that said, I also understand why you're getting impatient with the project. 
> It should have been completed this year, at least. Even so, I would like the 
> project to get out to another group before it goes back to Boston for final 
> disposition. You offered taking it last year and I thought hard about it. 
> There's not much point in getting impatient to finish now though, and Zion Auto 
> Body WANTED to finish up the body work they started. I have already reached the 
> conclusion that it will be going back to you for the final touches. After much 
> consideration you're the best person to finish it up, and it's fitting since it 
> started with you -- a complete circle. 
> 
> After your last message I wonder if that's the best thing to do, though that's 
> still the plan. I expect you're going to publicly criticize everything that was 
> done other than what you expected or would have done. Or will you realize that 
> this has been a monumental task that has been difficult for those who have done 
> a lot of work on the car and to manage and coordinate in our "spare" time? Right 
> now it appears you're just upset that it's taken so long, and you never realized 
> just what kind of task this would be. Maybe you never will understnad how 
> difficult this has been -- you're a lot more dedicated to the hobby than the 
> average AMCer -- I'll be the first to admit, and honor you with, that fact. I 
> don't think you'd have done any better, just given up and pulled it back to 
> finish yourself a lot sooner. The effort has been more for the AMC community, as 
> much as for the charities, than for the car itself. I hope you realize that. 
> 
> If a speedy effort was all that was wanted, a car in better body condition and 
> much easier to get parts for (Gremlin, or 66-69 American/Rogue, even a Javelin 
> -- almost anything but an AMX) would have been chosen. It wouldn't have made as 
> much money, but it would have been finished much sooner. The AMX has some people 
> intimidated, they don't want to do anything (especially now!) because they don't 
> want the criticism that some people have been giving the project, and the fact 
> that it's an AMX. The car will get looked at harder than a 
> Gremlin/Rambler/Javelin (non-AMX model) would. I anticipated some of that when 
> you offered the car, but decided to go for it anyway. I sometimes regret it -- 
> another model would have been easier to deal with, and a second car would be 
> starting rounds now. In the long run I think as much money would have been 
> raised on two cars as with this one AMX, and possibly in the same amount of time 
> -- the car wouldn't have got passed around as large an area. 
> 
> The biggest problem with this project is that the AMC community has been burned 
> by the experience and criticism it has generated. I'm not sure another project 
> like this will be attempted even on a car that needs much less work. But I still 
> don't regret the effort, and may try something similar again. Keeping it in one 
> region might help. I was going to say getting committments before the project 
> started, but we had some enough of those to last a couple years -- who knew no 
> one else would step up? Anyway, that's enough! Time to pull together and get 
> finished, not for any resentments as to how things have come together up to now 
> and further criticism. 
> 
> --
> Frank Swygert
> Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
> Magazine (AMC)
> For all AMC enthusiasts
> http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
> (free download available!)
> 
> -------------original message----------------------
> Re: [AMC-List] Charity AMX
> 
> Date: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 07:56 PM
> From: Thomas Benvie <tbenvie@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> Frank, once again you are missing the point.  The ball was dropped long before
> you deployed overseas.  Fact is, the project never became what it could of
> become-there has been little if any press exposure, little if any solicitation
> of donations or parts outside of the AMC hobby, and very little exposure
> inside
> the hobby.  Only a few people stepped forward tomake anything happen as far as
> actual work-which is okay, because a few are better than none.  there have
> been
> some pretty rotten decisions made about the car, parts to buy, status of work,
> etc.  The car was worse than you expected?  What does that mean?  you got a
> car
> with stright floors and gussets-not bad for New England.  And it was a 70, and
> mostly complete, a 2 owner car.  the quarter was damaged worse than
> expected-well, when the car left here it had a mint used qurter for the side
> that we knew was damaged.  When damage to the other side was discovered I
> donated the other side, and dave from Ga. willingly came up to Bost
> on and picked it up./  It left here with ram air, but it turned up missing-I
> donated another complete set, with air cleaner.  The wheels were bad- (but not
> when it left) so I sent out some more, complete with NOS trim rings, etc. more
> was asked, I sent out more and more. last i knew there were two right side
> seats-how did that happen.  Missing a rocker molding and window-where did it
> go?
> On and on and on.  Now you say you need a "few more weeks" to find someone
> else
> to finish it.  you've had a few years.  "Won't have it done in time"-says who?
> yeah, if you continue to procrastinate nothing will get done.  If I knew you
> or
> AIM would somehow be in charge the car would have stayed right here in Mass.
> It's been 6 years-a lot of people have donated a lot of time, money, and parts
> to get this done.  No time to wait Frank-use the cash you have to get it
> shipped
> back here.  it will be finished and if it is ion the shape i am told it is in,
> it will be ready for auction.  The guys left in
>  the New England Club will get it done, find the resources to get it shipped
> and
> to the auction.  Enough is enough-time for excuses are over.  "LAST CALL" for
> what, Frank-I am offering the help needed to get it done, and get it done now.
> 
> 
> Tom, yes, the car has stalled in Wisconsin. The main reason I've let it go for
> a
> while is the body shop with the car has been doing a superb job AND a lot of
> work -- that and I've been away in Afghanistan until a week ago. It NEEDS to
> move this year!! I HAVE been beating the bushes to get another
> club/group/individual to take the car and complete the interior and the
> exterior/mechanical miscellaneous items that still need attention.
> 
> It saddens me to think that no one wants to do any work on the car in that
> area
> of the country. There are groups in the mid west, supposedly, and I contacted
> a
> few individuals who were going to "bring it up" at meetings. I never heard
> back.
> It was only through the monumental efforst of David DeLabio in Racine that the
> car didn't get stranded in Wisconsin. We lucked out really -- Zion auto body
> has
> done top notch work! They found where the car had been in a wreck and it
> wasn't
> fully repaired but patched over -- the right rocker was bent in about 1/8"
> making the quarter tough to fit. Rather than patch it back up to look right
> they
> straightened everything properly. We couldn't have got better body work, but
> I'm
> sure they are ready to move the car by now.
> 
> I have to tell you, I'm, pissed off at the mid west AMC enthusiasts in
> general.
> I know there are some who would have liked to take it but don't have
> shop/garage
> space for the car. But you'd think someone in the mid west would be able to do
> something. This isn't an AIM magazine project, though I have been sponsoring
> it,
> it was/is an AMC community project. But there are a few people I haven't
> contacted directly yet. Jock Jocewicz is one of them. I had planned on doing
> just that, then Dave located Zion Auto Body and they agreed to do all the body
> work. You reading this Jock? Drop me an e-mail or call me (anyone interested
> in
> taking the car for work) at 302-233-4925.
> 
> This is the LAST CALL for someone to winter the car and get some work done.
> The
> car was rougher than we (those who conceived the project) expected, and there
> have been a few bumps along the way, but there's no reason it should have
> taken
> this long. If I can't get anyone interested, the car will go back to Tom in
> the
> next few weeks. He shouldn't have to do as much work as it needs to get
> finished. I don't think it can get completed in time for the winter auction,
> but
> it could be completed for spring.
> 
> So, barring someone actually taking the car for at least SOME more work, is
> there anyone on the list willing to assist with transporting it to Tom's home
> near Boston? Yes, there are some funds left. If anyone can get a discounted
> rate
> or transport the car for expenses that would be  preferred to having a
> transportation company do it. Give me a couple weeks to beat a few more
> bushes.
> I just got back home from Afghanistan -- haven't had time to do anything yet!
> 
> See what's needed and what's been done at
> http://www.mattsoldcars.com/charityamx/index.html.
> The last report was almost a year ago, but the car hasn't just been sitting at
> Zion. They have continued working on the body as time permits and completed
> more
> of the work they started. I haven't heard from Dave since I got back in the
> country, but will be contacting him for an update (just called and left a
> message, and sent an e-mail!). If all went as planned it should be painted and
> mainly need interior work now.


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