Re: [Amc-list] recently rebuilt 343 - No Oil Pressure

["Garry Nordstrom" <gasnordstrom@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

I have 2 extra 343 blocks on engine stands if anyone needs one, both need to 
be redone, still looking for that rebel for the built 343
garry
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Armand Eshleman" <aje1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 8:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] recently rebuilt 343 - No Oil Pressure


> Short periods of run time might mean bearing damage didn't occur. 
> Slathered
> up bearings just might live through it. If the bearings wiped off the
> slather, then the bearing outer layers will be wiped off. The cam and
> lifters could still be damaged because their break in procedure is usually
> to run it at approximately 1800 to 2000 rpm for the first half hour, 
> varying
> the rpm somewhat but never too high and do not go to idle. If this isn't
> followed I understand that cam lifter damage occurs with flat hydraulic
> tappet style cams.
> One thing no one mentioned was to remove your oil filter, cut it open with
> an oil filter cutting tool or a pipe cutter. Don't hack saw it cause metal
> from that cut will get into the filter. carefully open the paper element a
> look for metal particles, use a clean magnet to find ferrous (iron) 
> pieces,
> look very closely for bearing material, that will be non ferrous. If the
> filter is clean you may have gotten lucky, or all the metal is still in 
> the
> pan or lifter valley. Either way you will be pulling the intake to install
> plugs.
>
> Even though I think there's a slight chance you got lucky, I still think 
> N.
> Alfano gave the best advice, pull it, tear it down, get some engine 
> manuals
> for AMCs and rebuild it paying twice as much attention to every little
> minute detail. Doing it right the second time is still better than hoping
> it's oK and finding out later that you should have tore it down and done 
> it
> right the second time.
>
> Armand
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Greg DePratt" <gdepratt@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Friday, November 14, 2008 11:18 AM
> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] recently rebuilt 343 - No Oil Pressure
>
>
>> Thanks for all the replies...i sure hope it is not torn up.  It wasnt
>> running for a straight 5 minutes... maybe 15 seconds at a time with
>> some breaks inbetween. i slathered it with good lube and oil putting
>> it together. i will take it apart and let you all know.
>>
>> On 11/13/08, Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > I missed that post somehow! I'm ranking about the same as Tom --
>> > "experienced amateur builder". Those two plugs at the top near the 
>> > front
> of
>> > the valley DO have to be plugged. IIRC they are 3/8" plugs, but I'm not
> 100%
>> > certain. Those plug the holes that are drilled through the block to the
>> > lifter galleries (and pump on one side). Without the plugs you were 
>> > just
>> > running oil up into the valley. It wasn't building pressure because
> there
>> > was nothing slowing the oil's progress through the pump and out the 
>> > top.
>> >
>> > If you used a good assembly lube you SHOULD be okay. Install the plugs,
>> > prime the engine with a drill before you start it to make sure you have
> oil
>> > pressure (the drill may not pump up much over 10 psi before it bogs
> down),
>> > then start it.
>> >
>> > I doubt you did enough damage to warrant disassembly. If you did, 
>> > you'll
>> > know right after it cranks up and starts knocking. You may as well fire
> it
>> > up and see. At worst my guess is you took a few hundred miles off the
>> > bearings (assuming a good assembly lube was used). You should be fine 
>> > on
> the
>> > camshaft also, as there was no oil to wash the lube away.
>> >
>> > Make sure you use a good break-in oil additive! With today's low ZDDP
> oils
>> > that's VERY important. I'd run the additive in the second batch of oil
> too
>> > (in the second oil change). Unless you are using stiffer than stock
> valve
>> > springs you should be fine after the second oil change with regular 
>> > oil,
> but
>> > it won't hurt to run a bit of supplement from now on.
>> >
>> > ----------------
>> > Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2008 23:52:52 -0800
>> > From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>> >
>> > Hmm, no engine builers replied... OK, I'm rank amateur engine builder,
>> > but... that sounds bad to me. The first few minutes are the most
>> > critical by far.
>> >
>> > Usual practice is to spin up the oil pump with a drill and flattened 
>> > rod
>> > until you see oil pressure, BEFORE you fire up... or at least spin it 
>> > up
>> > until it "gets stiff" so that the galleries are all full of oil and the
>> > pump primed.
>> >
>> > No way you wanna hear this... if it were me, I'd pull the engine now,
>> > with the assumption that if you don't, you will later, with ruined hard
>> > parts. Or see if you can get the pan off and pop a bearing cap or two. 
>> > I
>> > dunno though, cam lube is dead critical at start up. Did you use
>> > high-zinc lube on everything at assembly?
>> >
>> > Sorry, I think no one wants to say anything so depressing. Maybe the
>> > more-optimistic will slap me down here. I do tend to be on the paranoid
>> > side when it comes to assembly.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Greg DePratt wrote:
>> >
>> >> > Finally got my 343 back together and in my Javelin.  Fired it up and
>> >> > found
>> >> > that I am not getting any oil pressure....bummer.  So I checked my
> oil
>> >> > pressure gauge and it is working.  Next I checked the oil pressure
> gauge
>> >> > tube and also removed the tube from the port.  Some oil will come 
>> >> > out
> of
>> >> > the
>> >> > port while it is running but not a lot.  Next we removed the
> distributor
>> >> > and
>> >> > turned the oil pump with a drill, thinking maybe the pump didn't get
>> >> > primed
>> >> > properly.  Still no oil pressure.  After scratching our heads for a
>> >> > while we
>> >> > remembered that the local machine shop sent the block back to us
> without
>> >> > any
>> >> > of the plugs in it.  Usually they put the plugs back in the correct
>> >> > spots
>> >> > before giving it back. We installed all the plugs we had but were
> unsure
>> >> > on
>> >> > the two plugs at the front of the engine under the intake.  With the
>> >> > drill
>> >> > turning the oil pump we see a lot of oil flowing while looking into
> the
>> >> > oil
>> >> > fill tube.  Is this the souce of my low oil pressure problem?
> Thought I
>> >> > would ask the experts before I pull the intake and have to buy a new
>> >> > gasket.
>> >> >
>> >> > The total run time for the engine so far was less than 5 minutes. 
>> >> > Do
>> >> > you
>> >> > think I could have damaged anthing?
>> >> >
>> >> > If it is those plugs that I need to fill, does anyone know what size
>> >> > they
>> >> > are?
>> >> >
>> > --
>> > Frank Swygert
>> > Publisher, "American Motors Cars"
>> > Magazine (AMC)
>> > For all AMC enthusiasts
>> > http://farna.home.att.net/AMC.html
>> > (free download available!)
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> >
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