Re: [Amc-list] Muskeeter rings,,, Ring break-in problems

[Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx]

Thanks!
I'll be filing this.
Uh, antifriction lube? Would you use this on a the Coated Skirt piston?
So, Basically your saying you don't get assembly lube anywhere near the rings and use 3 in 1 oil in the ring grooves and let the rings pretty much dry?
   Call me old and unschooled on this, but I always used plain old engine oil and pretty much lubed the crap out of the bores and pistons with it. I take it I was doing it wrong?
    I was trained in autobody work at Vale tech, a pre Wyotech school. I must admit I never received formal training on engine rebuilds. Just what I was told and read, some of it probably apparantly incorrect. Funny how back in the day you cold work your way up in a dealership, get an ASE master tech certification, yet never take and actual engine rebuild class!
   I never had a rebuild fail on me over the years though! No smokers or other failures. So I must not have screwed up too bad...
--
Mark Price
Morgantown, WV
1969 AMC Rambler, 4.0L, EFI, T-5
2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo, 4.7L, Quadratrac II
" I realize that death is inevitable.
I just don't want to be around when it happens! "

 -------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Bruce Hevner" <scramblr@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> >Don't know if they are still available out there, but Muskegon always gave
> me the best bang for my >buck. I'd slap those suckers into some pretty badly
> worn motors and they would still seat in less than >1,000 miles and get over
> a year's running without power loss, even when ran hard.
> 
> I was a warehouse dist for Muskegon when I had my shop. They were some of
> the best on the market back then, VERY high quality (made in the US). I sold
> LOTS of them. Then in 88 (I think) Dana Corp bought them and stopped
> marketing them at retail although they were still available to engine
> rebuilders. They were gradually brought into the Perfect Circle brand. 
> Then in 98 ( a year after I closed my shop) they started to drop the
> Muskegon part numbers and go to Perfect Circle part numbers and Muskegon was
> on its way out. In 05 Dana closed the Muskegon foundry and  I think Muskegon
> is totally gone now. I think all of it is now under the Federal-Mogul. 
> Most in my area are now selling Hastings rings. I'm not fond of them at all.
> Especially their oil ring. I like PC much better. Especially their "Speed
> Pro" line. Not as good as TotalSeal but not as expensive either.
> 
> >Unless it's a race car or something that will be pushed a lot I'd use
> standard cast rings. Chrome-molys >last longer but are hard to seat in a
> relatively slow turning engine like the AMC six. I used them twice, >and had
> problems getting the rings to seat. On the first one I literally had to
> overheat the engine (like >boiling over overheating!) before the rings would
> seat (it was a 196 L-head). The second time took a >lot of hard running and
> over 2000 miles before they were fully seated. For a mostly street car it's
> just >not worth it! Standard rings should seat in the first 500 miles and
> last over 100K if the engine isn't run >extremely hot or overheated too many
> times and otherwise taken care of. I've had a couple engines >with stock
> type cast rings go nearly 200K before they started using much oil and
> noticeably lose power >(compression). 
> 
> I think you are confusing CHROME rings with MOLY (plain Moly or PLASMA
> MOLY). Chrome-MOLY is a type of steel. It's a common mistake.
> Hard Chrome has been used as an anti-wear coating on rings for a LONG time
> both retail and OE level. Hard Chrome CAN be difficult to seat if the bore
> is not finished properly or if ANY anti-friction lube is used on the rings
> for installation.
>  How did you know your rings were not seated? If it was a compression
> problem then it would have been the top ring. If it was an oil consumption
> problem it would have been the second ring since the top ring does not
> perform oil control. This is known as having a "wet cylinder"  and is most
> commonly caused by using an anti-friction lube on the rings for assembly
> preventing the second ring from seating. The second ring does double duty
> both backup compression to the top ring and oil control.
> 
>  Plain cast rings are most used for "economy" rebuilds are generally easy to
> seat but not as long lasting as "coated rings"
>  Hard Chrome rings (while harder to seat) are MUCH longer lasting and easier
> on the cylinder walls. Many Japanese engines (especially Toyota) used to put
> Hard Chrome on BOTH the top compression ring AND the second compression-oil
> control ring!
>  Plain MOLY coated rings (cast or Ductile) are easier to seat than Hard
> Chrome but tend not to last quite as long and not be quite as easy on the
> cyl walls.
> PLASMA-MOLY is the latest in common ring coatings. It is sprayed on the face
> of the ring with a plasma torch (hence it's name). It has a much higher
> melting temp than Hard Chrome while seating about like reg Moly.  This is
> what you will commonly find on high end competition rings but is also used
> at the OE level.
> 
> When installing pistons I don't use ANY type of anti-friction lube like STP
> or engine assembly lube on the rings. This can cause a "wet cylinder". I use
> ONLY a few drops of 3-1 oil in the ring grooves and a few drops rubbed into
> the cylinder walls with my hand and then the excess removed with a cloth. I
> put a FEW drops of anti-friction lube on the SKIRTS ONLY of a WARM piston.
> After letting it soak in I REMOVE the excess with a rag. Do NOT allow ANY of
> the anti-friction lube to contact the rings OR cylinders.  This is the
> procedure recommended to me by an engineer from one of the ring companies
> about 20 years ago. I have NEVER had a ring seating problem since I have
> been doing it this way.
> 
> But HEY,,, that's just ME!!
> Bruce Hevner
> 
> 
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL: 
> http://splatter.wps.com/pipermail/amc-list/attachments/20081018/4b1d330d/attachm
> ent.htm 
> _______________________________________________
> Amc-list mailing list
> Amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list

_______________________________________________
Amc-list mailing list
Amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list