Re: [Amc-list] LPG 258

[Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>]

Brien Tourville wrote:

> Liquid Injection is claimed to bring the mileage  difference between 
> Gasoline & LPG
> down to roughly 10%..

Erm, it can't perform magic -- it's simple physics, there's less BTU/kg 
of LPG compared to gasoline. So you have to use more of it per HP, 
period, end of story.

At it's peak (for the years before the valves wore out!), I got 14.3 to 
15.1 MPG propane; that's equivelant to 19.5 - 20.5 mpg gasoline, 
calculated strictly btus/lb LPG vs btus/lb LPG. 20 mpg (gas) in that car 
is as good as they ever got with any engine. Sure, real injection with 
computer fuel maps would have upped the LPG mileage, but it would have 
upped the gas mileage in the same way.

(My mpg numbers seem low, but that's ANNUAL AVERAGE mpg. I get peaks of 
24, and lows of 16 like any car, but I keep a spreadsheet for all 
fillups for all my cars for the entire time I own 'em.)

> Australia went from Natural Gas to LPG for their national transport fuels &
> FORD is producing dedicated vehicles for this market.

Yeah, Oz made LPG available for vehicles decades ago, back when it was 
all low-hanging-fruit, easy gains. Smart!

> The push stateside here to move to Natural Gas for Trucking & Government
> Fleet Vehicles [Pickens Plan]  since we have a wealth of Natural Gas 
> reserves and,
> I've seen my first TV ad for using LPG for car fueling this past week, 
> has support
> with the Democrats & Indies.

(Pickens and businessmen like him shouldn't be allowed to have their own 
  ballot proposals -- so much for democracy. It's in his self-interest 
since he has a lot of $$$ in NG! Anything else is incidental to his 
interests.)

LPG and NG are completely different, fueling-wise. NG fueling is a slow 
PITA. Bus fleets don't mind though. Joe Sixpack in a rush home from work 
would never put up with it.


> LPG is a by product of processing Natural Gas - 

Huh? NG is a lot of methane and water and trace amounts of the other 
-anes and it varies from market to market. LPG is a product (not by-) of 
petroleum. "LPG can be produced from NG" just as can hydrogen... same 
story, same economics.


> that if a mandate to convert Trucking to NG does come down from
> Washington, the refiners will support LPG for automobiles - maybe.

Never ever will happen in the US. Not ever. Why bother? Super-ULEV 
vehicles --today-- do 99% of what LPG does best-case and with existing 
fuel infrastructure. (If GM can't do that, that's their problem. Honda 
and Toyota do. I have no sympathy for an industry with so much of a head 
start that fell so far behind. Biz people tossed engineering and R&D out 
in favor of bean counters. Worked for a while, huh!)

LPG in the US is dead for mass-market, the opportunity was in decades 
long past.

Diversity in transportation modes, in urban and industrial 
infrastructure design, and simple things like mandated insulation in 
houses (sheesh!) will do a lot of "finding energy".

There are no more magical bullets left, they all got shot, and turns 
out, most of 'em weren't magic after all.
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