AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 40

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 401X Race Block (farna@xxxxxxx)
   2. to all amc listers (Poncho7amx@xxxxxxx)
   3. Re: Flexplate Question (Todd Tomason)
   4. get em while they're hot (Armand Eshleman)
   5. Gremlin Sundowner Again (JOE FULTON)
   6. AMX wheel wells (dan whitehead)
   7. Re: get them while they are hot (Eddie Stakes)
   8. Mexican VAM 1981 Rally GT pix (Eddie Stakes)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 14:45:28 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401X Race Block
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<121720061445.7759.4585580800025BB100001E4F21602807480E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
	

I wouldn't speculate on value either, but it could fetch $2500 IF marketed right. I think we have enough information to indicate it's the Indy program block. I know six engines were to be built for the program, and there had to be a few spares made. It's got the "Indy 500" mystique about it, so that should make it a collectors item. But as Tom knows, the bare block, even with enough pieces to put a similar engine together, may not be worth that much. This is the first Indy iron engine just j=used a couple years -- like Tom's first year effort six it might be looked on as a development mule, not worth as much as "the real thing". 

The guy who owns the AMC Indy car might be interested in it as a spare, but I doubt he's interested in giving $2500 for it -- I'm pretty sure his is the later aluminum blcok engine. If this thing just had the "flat" crank to go with it -- that would make it would easily make it twice as valuable. 

This would be the 76-77 block -- 78-79 were aluminum copies of the stock block. Both the iron and aluminum blocks were hand cast, not cast on the production line. The limit for boosted stock blocks was 209 cid with 50 inches of mercury boost (24.6 psi). This went up to 58" in 78-79 (28.5 psi). The AL engined cars ran in 80 and 81, but didn't finish due to mechanical failures. Part of the problem was the AL blocks had to be exact copies of the iron block to be certified as "stock". This led to oiling problems due to expansion and contraction. Here's a good article on the engines: http://www.geocities.com/mmbb444/page32.html

--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Motors Cars" 
Magazine (AMC)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)

 -------------- Original message ----------------------

> Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2006 16:07:09 -0800
> From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> Oh, I won't speculate on value anymore. Evilbay type auctions breed high prices 
> for garbage [not that an X block is such!].
>   I would try and get it in a place where nuts like us could look at it and go 
> COOL!
> I don't see the point in actually building an engine with such a one off piece.
>   After all most everyone here doubted the thing even really existed! How owuld 
> you replace it if it was trashe? with such small bores, what's the point. It's 
> an oddity for sure, but that is all.
> --
> Mark Price
> markprice242ATadelphia.net
> Morgantown, WV
> 
> 
> ---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote: 
> > On Sat, 16 Dec 2006, Nick ALFANO wrote:
> > 
> > > I am not sure where he got it from and there were no
> > > heads there yet when I looked at it.  He has grand
> > > ideas of the block being worth somewhere in the area
> > > of $2500 by itself.
> > 
> > Well I hope he doesn't do something regrettable when/if he
> > doesn't get $2500 for it. With documentation and pedigree,
> > maybe, but with no docs? No history? $2500 seems a big high,
> > even though it is really strange. I doubt I could get that for
> > my Navarro Indy six "kit", and it's got paper(s) and a hell of
> > a lot more than a single block.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Nick Alfano 
> > > Alfano Performance
> > > Kenosha, WI. 53142
> > > 262-308-1302
> > > 262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends
> > > 
> > > Message: 11
> > > Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2006 11:06:25 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
> > > Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401X Race Block
> > > To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Message-ID:
> > > <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612151105450.8539@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> > > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> > > 
> > > On Fri, 15 Dec 2006, Nick ALFANO wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I would tend to go along with you that they didn't
> > > > really exist except I inspected it yesterday.  It
> > > does
> > > > have the 401 cast into the side of the block, there
> > > > definitely is an "X" stamped above the casting and
> > > it
> > > > is a 3.750 bore.  The water jackets are much larger
> > > > than a normal AMC V8.  Looking at the size of them,
> > > I
> > > > doubt this engine could be bored more than .060 over
> > > > the 3.750 bore.  The oil return holes in the intake
> > > > valley are plugged and it had 4 bolt mains at some
> > > > point in it's life.  The part number shows it is a
> > > 401
> > > > but the bore is definitely not.  There is also "401"
> > > > cast into the valley section of the block.  This is
> > > > not some homemade job.  It is definitely cast into
> > > the
> > > > block.  The casting marks are much more pronounced
> > > on
> > > > this block than normal.  The block has been tanked
> > > and
> > > > blasted down to a bare casting so there is no hiding
> > > > what is there. 


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:46:44 EST
From: Poncho7amx@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] to all amc listers
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <d0c.4eff395.32b6b254@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

have a merry christmas and a happy new year from dave and teri morse 1968  
amx upstate n.y.


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 09:45:28 -0600
From: Todd Tomason <jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Flexplate Question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612170945.28313.jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

We finally got a chance to test-fit the 304 flexplate with the torque 
converter on the 727.  The flexplate had two sets of holes already drilled.  
One set had been used for the 998.  The other set matched up perfectly with 
the 727.  This is reasonable since you could order a 304 with a 727 (heavy 
duty or fleet option).   

I'm curious to see how things work out for John Elle.  I think he's using a 
360 with a 904 in a Hornet.  I don't know if the 360 flexplate will have two 
sets of holes or not.  The bolt holes are definitely spaced different on the 
torque converters.  

Todd

On Sunday 10 December 2006 20:26, Todd Tomason wrote:
> We're swapping a 304 into my son's Matador.  It currently has a 360 with a
> 727 transmission.  The 304 came out of a Javelin with a 998.  Will the
> flexplate that's already on the 304 work correctly with the 727?
>
> Todd
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 12:15:13 -0600
From: "Armand Eshleman" <aje1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] get em while they're hot
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <006b01c72207$4c1f8cc0$6601a8c0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

WOW, this auction is unbelievable.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=300059111700

I guess if you have a trim piece for the left side with all four pins in
tact you should be selling it about now.

Armand



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 14:15:22 -0800 (PST)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Gremlin Sundowner Again
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061217221522.18137.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I was reviewing an older issue of Hemmings Classic Car
(Aug 2005, page 67) today and in the article entitled:
 Gremlins You Never Saw was included a paragraph and
two pictures of the Gremlin Sundowner CE (California
Edition).   As stated before it was a dress-up package
for the 77 Gremlin to enhance showroom traffic in
California:  two-tone tan/gold paint, painted full
wheel covers (from the Concord and Pacer), special tan
vinyl interior appointments.

Nice accessory shown in one photo holding a surfboard.
 

Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2006 00:11:05 +0000
From: "dan whitehead" <freebird_58@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMX wheel wells
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY111-F24F0B5A65E2CA61D13DF0D94C90@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

The AMX is in a resto shop getting some much needed attention.  When we took 
off the small strip in the wheel well, by the torque link mounting, we found 
the wheel well and the floor sheet metal weren't even touching.  I thought 
that was just reinforcement material not a "patch" put in because they 
rolled that area over.  Anyone know why they didn't make the wheel well full 
length?  My only guess was because this was rolled over the sheet metal tore 
when formed.  Otherwise the passenger side rockers almost done, the driver 
side next then on to the outside sheetmetal.

Dan Whitehead
'70 BBO Donohue
'69 AMX
'82 Spirit GT (currently dead)

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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 19:17:20 -0600
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] get them while they are hot
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <00c501c72242$46e72d90$abf1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Regarding this auction:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&viewitem=&item=300059111700
that is not too unusual at all. While there are some nice reproductions out 
there, you have to drill/resize the holes in your hood. Sure, it won't show 
once mounted but some have problems drilling holes in car! This particular 
used piece has all four mounting tabs, quite a feat in itself after almost 
40 years. More unusual is the scoop. It is a non Ram Air scoop. A dummy 
scoop. 1241 70 AMXs had dummy scoops as not everyone wanted for Ram Air. Not 
sure how many Javelins got that.

One thing I may mention also is that the reproduction ram air trim don't 
take to chroming. The originals you can easily have rechromed. The newer 
stuff while looks good, is different metal and turns to goo if dipped. A 
buddy of mine who has the Rad Mad had a pair of repro ones chromed. They 
melted. I asked to have one done, and told the chroming place if it melts, 
no problem simply not because I didn't believe him, I wanted to see for 
myself. Somewhere on a shelf in my garage is a 2 inch pile. Can't even tell 
what it was, looks like playdoh. So can't have the newer stuff chromed if 
you want. As for ram air trim, I sold almost all my broken tab ones in the 
past year for $10-$75, and well, it depends on how many tabs they still had. 
The $75 one had 3 tabs, so the $177 for the auction is not out of range, 
epecially since it also included a rare dummy scoop! I just hope someone 
uses it, neat to see some of the dummy ram air cars at meets.
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
Email is currently HEAVY
5-12 day reply times, call if important 



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2006 19:45:47 -0600
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Mexican VAM 1981 Rally GT pix
To: <baadassGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000201c7225d$cdc60c80$abf1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Mauriecio sent me these from Guadajara Mexico of his new 1981 Rally GT. 
Someone save these photos for furute reference as the host, photobucket, 
usually dumps them after only a certain amount of time! So if someone wants 
to save these for future reference, please do before they are gone. I have 
not heard from Mauricio for awhile. This is a VAM 1981 Spirit Rally GT, 
rather rare little car and you will notice a number of things on it that 
didn't appear in the US Spirits (at least that I know of).
Have fun,
Eddie Stakes

EXTERIOR

Rear:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_01.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_02.jpg

Rear Passenger Side:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_03.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_04.jpg

Passenger Side:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_05.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_06.jpg

Front Passenger Side:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_07.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_08.jpg

Front:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_09.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_10.jpg

Driver Side Front:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_11.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_12.jpg

Driver Side:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_13.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_14.jpg

Driver Side Rear:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_15.jpg

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_16.jpg

Passenger Side Front Wheel:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_17.jpg

Driver Side Front Wheel:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_18.jpg

Passenger Side Rear Wheel:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_19.jpg

Driver Side Rear Wheel:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_20.jpg


INTERIOR

Passenger Door:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_21.jpg

Driver Door:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_22.jpg

Passenger Interior View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_23.jpg

Driver Interior View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_24.jpg

Passenger Full Dashboard View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_25.jpg

Driver Full Dashboard View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_26.jpg

Driver Portion Dashboard View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_27.jpg

Center Portion Dashboard View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_28.jpg

Passenger Portion Dashboard View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_29.jpg

Rear Seat Passenger View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_30.jpg

Rear Seat Driver View:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_31.jpg

Passenger Seat:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_32.jpg

Driver Seat:

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y243/rallygt/Rally_GT_1981_33.jpg
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
Email is currently HEAVY
5-12 day reply times, call if important 



------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 40
****************************************