AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 58

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Transmission Interchange..
      (Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
   2. Re: Blasphemy (AMO Conours Judging) (Larry R. Daum)
   3. bad bearing...somewhere... (d stohler)
   4. Re: Blasphemy (Ken Ames)
   5. Re: SJ Axle width? (Spro)
   6. Re: SJ Axle width? (Sandwich Maker)
   7. Re: SJ Axle width? (Spro)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:42:11 -0600
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
	<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Transmission Interchange..
To: <jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01B68F0D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

I'm going to have to save your post for sure! Sounds like you have two
different model transmissions. The 196 should have had a T-35 (or M-35),
the 232 tranny is probably a M-37 if it's air cooled. I knew there were
some differences, but not what. Now we know! 

As for the yokes not fitting... I bet the difference is in the spline
pitch or the width of the splines. That's the only way I can think of
that the 232 yoke would fit the 196 trans but not vice-versa. You sure
you didn't get them mixed up when you tried? 

In any case, go to the nearest NAPA. They make several "cross breed"
u-joints for engine swaps. The 196 joint is the same as early six
cylinder Falcon and Mustangs. I'm not sure what the 232 joint would
cross over to, if anything. You'll need to measure the distance from cap
to cap with the joint assembled and the diameter of the caps on each
joint. Obviously you want a u-joint with two of the 196 size caps and
two of the 232 size. I'd take the joints with you in case you need to
compare them and to check sizes. If this doesn't work you'll have to
take both shafts to a driveline shop and have them mate the two. The
last time I did this I also had to have the shaft length changed, and it
was $150. I suspect more like $200-$250 in your neck of the woods and
now (I had one done 2-3 years ago when I put the Jag axle in, and in
Mississippii!). Call around though -- I bought a used driveshaft end as
well when I had mine done, but that was only $25 or so. 

--------------------

Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 03:09 PM
From: Jerijan Baldwin <jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

Greetings Group...

I have just spent the forth day doing an 'easy change' placing a 232
Transmission from 1970 into a 1965 American with a 196.
Easy Change...almost...
I was told it was a drop and do...
Except...
I had to change the input shaft and the shaft the oil pump mounts to so
the
Torque converter would fit...
This is because the torque converter from the 196 would not fit the
splines on the 232's tranny...Changed the bell housings and tried the
232 torque converter and...the bell housing would not allow the
transmission to 'go in'..it hit the cowl with the engine lowered in the
rear.
So...changed the two shafts in the front of the trans and...put the 196
torque converter on it and the original bell housing (from the 196)
and...
AL-Ley-Leu-YA!!  IT FIT INTO THE CAR...and every thing lined up nicely..
Everything, that is, except...
The YOKE.
The Yoke from the 196 does not go into the 232's tailshaft.
Seems the 232's yoke did fit the 196's tranny (strange, isn 't it??
Same with the torque convertor..the 232's fit the 196 but not vice
versa)...

Any Ideas short of cutting and inventing a new driveshift with a larger
Yoke?? What Yoke will fit this which has a small Universal Joint but
splines which fit the 232 transmission??





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 14:08:51 -0800
From: "Larry R. Daum" <mramc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Blasphemy (AMO Conours Judging)
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Swygert Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM
	<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <6.2.0.14.0.20061128134535.024c92d8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed


Re: [AMC-List] Blasphemy (AMO Conours Judging)

Date: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 01:44 PM
From: 
<mailto:Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx?subject=Re:%20%5BAMC-List%5D%20Blasphemy%20%28AMO%20Conours%20Judging%29>Swygert 
Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM <Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

I'm not so sure the judges didn't look under the hood of the Chevy
powered Hornet so many years ago. I think the incident did bring the
question of what to do with non-AMC powered cars to the fore-front, and
it caused a stir within AMO, but I don't think it did any more than
bring up more questions. I would never have asked for the award back,
even if I thought an award was made by mistake. I'd have to hear quite a
tale to return an award, that's for sure!

Yada Yada Yada yada
*************************************************************************

Frank, etal . My point is 1) some one should  have noticed the car had a 
Chevy engine in the Hornet while it was being judged. That the engine was 
the wrong color and had the distributor on the wrong end. That's just poor 
judgment and no training for some thing that obvious. 2) Wanting the trophy 
back  after the fact was tacky and again , poor judgement on some ones 
part. 3) Unfortunately many people take car shows way too seriously 
especially when trying to promote them as "prestigious national marque car 
shows" or "Concourse" either live up to the standard you trying to promote 
or just call it a judged car show and have fun with it. No one or the 
other, but DO NOT call the show a "concourse" when you only doing a 
haphazardly judged car show. My my father use to so crudely put it "shit or 
get off the pot" Not the first time some has bungled a car show judging and 
not the last.All the clubs have done once in while. This now water under 
the bridge , but was to me funny and very glaring.

thanks LRDaum  




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:04:16 -0800 (PST)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] bad bearing...somewhere...
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061128230416.60755.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

well, tore out the whole axle today, torque tube. no bearing found in the torque tube. nothing. seal on the tail shaft of the transmission that the drive shaft slip yoke slides on, and the seal on the rear axle. nothing in the tube. i am going to look again with a real bright light shined down there, but with it completely out, and looking thru it to my concrete driveway, i saw nothing... bright sunny day to. ended up taking the transmission out. opened it up, and smells and looked like the oil in there has been cooked a few times. i had changed it out when i got it out of the field after 20 years and changed it again after it sat for 4 more years till last summer. going to clean it out good, and get new bearings. syncros look good. gears look good also. man, i really wish i could get either an overdrive to work on that, or get a 3.50 neighborhood gear. sick and tired of having to spin that many rpm just to keep to minimum speed on the roads here so i can go to the shows
 and what not. anyway, right now, the only part of the entire drivetrain in the car is the engine.... dont tempt me on pullin it out and rebuilding it right now also. i just might. still looking for anyone with gears for that rearend. also a 304 and t-5. thinking i might just keep that rearend and make it stronger. use it till it breaks then get a new one in it. 
   
  dave stohler

 
---------------------------------
Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 20:05:13 -0700
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Blasphemy
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1164769513.456cf8e9e856c@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Date coded parts aren't always what they might seem. Many parts are now
reproduced with any date code you might want on them.

Ken 


Quoting "Larry R. Daum" <mramc@xxxxxxxxxxx>:

 Do not get me 
> started on the $700 factory correct date coded fan belt for 1969 AMX some 
> one paid.  thanks , Larry R. Daum
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> 
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
> 




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 00:00:38 -0500
From: "Spro" <msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] SJ Axle width?
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000f01c71373$53341f00$6401a8c0@deathstar>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

FYI, Jeep Moab rims (from Rubicons) are 8" wide, 5x4.5" with a little over 5" backspacing.  I run
them on my XJ.

-Spro


-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Swygert, Francis G
MSgt 436 CES/CECM
Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:15 AM
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] SJ Axle width?

The Explorer 8.8" has been successfully used in Javelins and, is closer
to the right width for big cars. Even 1/2" narrower would have helped
when I ran an XJ axle w/3-3/4" backset 7" wheels! It's tough to find a
7" wheel with a deeper backset than that. You need something with more
like 4-1/4" backset to use the XJ axle, 3-3/4" (w/7" wheel) would work
much better with the Explorer axle. The only thing I could find with
enough backset for my stock width Jaguar XJ6 axle (88, but all Jag
XJ6/12/S axles are the same width) was a Weld Drag Lite. They come in
just about any backset you can think of in 1/2" increments. I ended up
running 7" wheels with a 5.5" backset. I run the same on the front, but
have the spindles spaced out from the steering knuckle about 3/4" (+3/8"
from the disc brake caliper bracket -- just over an inch). Even then I
needed 1/8" spacers to keep the wheels from scrubbing the a-arms. 

_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
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http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list

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------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:53:49 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] SJ Axle width?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200611290753.kAT7rn726766@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

" From: "Spro" <msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx>
" 
" FYI, Jeep Moab rims (from Rubicons) are 8" wide, 5x4.5" with a little
" over 5" backspacing.  I run them on my XJ.

16x8, right?

afaik all cherokee/wrangler/etc [and eagle] rims are 5.25" backspacing.
all are also 5x4.5" bolt circle incl. 1st gen grand cherokee, but 2nd
gen up gc and presumably commander are 5x5".

thought i saw somewhere there are 17x7s now on the liberty.

" -----Original Message-----
" From: Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM
" 
" The only thing I could find with
" enough backset for my stock width Jaguar XJ6 axle (88, but all Jag
" XJ6/12/S axles are the same width) was a Weld Drag Lite. They come in
" just about any backset you can think of in 1/2" increments. I ended up
" running 7" wheels with a 5.5" backset.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 06:19:14 -0500
From: "Spro" <msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] SJ Axle width?
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <001001c713a8$344b44d0$6401a8c0@deathstar>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Yes, I forgot to mention that they are 16" diameter.


-Spro


-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Sandwich Maker
Sent: Wednesday, November 29, 2006 2:54 AM
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] SJ Axle width?

" From: "Spro" <msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx>
" 
" FYI, Jeep Moab rims (from Rubicons) are 8" wide, 5x4.5" with a little
" over 5" backspacing.  I run them on my XJ.

16x8, right?

afaik all cherokee/wrangler/etc [and eagle] rims are 5.25" backspacing.
all are also 5x4.5" bolt circle incl. 1st gen grand cherokee, but 2nd
gen up gc and presumably commander are 5x5".

thought i saw somewhere there are 17x7s now on the liberty.

" -----Original Message-----
" From: Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM
" 
" The only thing I could find with
" enough backset for my stock width Jaguar XJ6 axle (88, but all Jag
" XJ6/12/S axles are the same width) was a Weld Drag Lite. They come in
" just about any backset you can think of in 1/2" increments. I ended up
" running 7" wheels with a 5.5" backset.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought
_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
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http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list

or go to http://www.amc-list.com




------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 58
****************************************