AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 16
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 16
- From: amc-list-request@xxxxxxx
- Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 19:13:38 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: engine weights [was: "Can anyone help this Person"]
(Sandwich Maker)
2. Re: a saga of sorts... (J Johnson)
3. Re: "Can anyone help this Person" (Jim Blair)
4. Re: speaking of carburetors (Jim Blair)
5. Rambler Cross Country Side Trim? (johnny kazek)
6. Pacer trany (Jim Shadwick)
7. Re: speaking of carburetors (Sandwich Maker)
8. Re: Pacer trany (Sandwich Maker)
9. lump-mass (pleuriticus@xxxxxxxxxxx)
10. Re: Pacer trany (BUS-ENG)
11. Re: 'check this freak' <> Speaking of Suspensions <>
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
12. Re: Speaking of Suspensions-Now turbos
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
13. List Traffic - light right now...
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 08:48:16 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] engine weights [was: "Can anyone help this
Person"]
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200611071348.kA7DmGJ02739@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
"
" On Tue, 7 Nov 2006, Sandwich Maker wrote:
"
" > brace yourself. from the late '60s, the buick 350 is down below 500
" > lbs dressed, whereas the iron-head 426 hemi is nearly 850.
reminder - the hemi wasn't a gm... ;^>
" I meant of course similar designs; it's not a surprise the
" big-block GM motor is so heavy. The AMC 8's seem analogous to
" the SBC and small Ford, more or less. Didn't mean to make an
" exact comparison.
in some ways it's probably more comparable to the mopar a-block with
respect to general casting tech, and it shares at least one dimension
with the mopar b/rb - bore centers. that's generaly fair though.
" That Buick 350 is light though!
i was surprised myself, but on reflection - it grew out of the
aluminum 215, so i'll bet at 350 cubes it's pretty well stretched as
far as it can go, whereas they've made 455 cube sbc and similarly
big-inch small fords and mopars. it's physically a small motor for a
350.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 07:24:38 -0800 (PST)
From: J Johnson <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] a saga of sorts...
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061107152438.56189.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
If anyone cared, thought I would continue from below.. I was told I
could have the car for $175-, what he paid for it at auction. I do not
know anything about he motor but it did turn over by hand. This guy
bought for scrap, he did not care about car other than that. To buy
and part out, I could make it back probably. I truly regret saying
this, but I just don?t have the time to do it.. My main interest in
the car was to swap out the drivetrain into an older classic I have. I
have been educated that this COULD be done, but other options would be
more practical. Car is still available, for a short time the fella
told me if someone can change my mind?
From: Date: Monday, October 30, 2006 04:11 PM
I'm an occasional estate sale/auction guy, though only if I can get
cheap.. most times am wasting my Sat mornings.. (bought a ?63 American
for $60- last year) This past spring a notice for auction came out.
Canx at last minute for some reason.. Had a 76 Hornet listed. I
watched this web site ALL summer waiting for it to come back up.
Finally it did, three weeks ago. Well, it figures I was traveling that
day (travel for work), in fact I was flying back to States landing in
Detroit about an hour after auction was probably over? I put in an
absentee bid of $150-, as I did not know anything about the car other
than had a 258 and was a 76 Hornet. Called when I landed, One other
bidder and of course he went over my absentee price (win $175-). This
past Saturday, another auction, spoke with the "trailer girl" and she
said that the fella that won the car bought it so he could sell for
scrap.. She traced me down a bit later and gave me the guy's number
and today I went to look at it. 76 Hornet (sportabout I think) wagon.
258, auto, AC. Has the alum wheels, only 2 center caps. Wheels are a
bit bunged up as I believe he dragged the car home on flat tires, they
eventually collapsed and wheel on road damage. Motor turned over, no
air cleaner so open carb. Motor looked fairly clean. Was a fabric
topped car, this is shredded and I found a couple of holes in the roof
so body is basically shot. Interior not too bad but nothing to note as
special or to keep. Windshield good. Bumpers and grill are good. Trim
around wheelwells could be salvaged. He removed the gas tank, do not
know if is good or of he bungled that up. Gut is telling me he will
want at least $200- for it.. Spoke to his wife, fuzzy's there told me
he may want more?. I COULD do 200-, and I have a place to store, but is
it worth it???? Gonna get with him later tonight to see what he does
want for it..
Possibly, to be continued??
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------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 07:53:06 -0800
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] "Can anyone help this Person"
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F206901FF2522C76830CFE3ACF20@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: The only thing that is "1/2 the weight" is the stock intake manifolds!
(and that's assuming a "stock" 5.0L aluminum intake!)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] "Can anyone help this Person"
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611062126150.8605@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>recently I read about engine weights and found a 302 is half
the
>weight of a 304.
>From: "Richard Estermyer" <javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] Can anyone help this person?
>What is the reality of this "truth" anyway.
There's no way in bloody fubar that a Furd v8 is half the weight
of any other v8 motor, ay em cee or otherwise. It's a baseless
argument-starting falsehood.
I would be surprised if any contemporary cast iron american V8
engine from that era was more than 10 - 15% different than any
of the others.
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 08:01:08 -0800
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] speaking of carburetors
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F2126668760691596467EEFACF20@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
I could have sworn we measured the housing ends and they were the same? Not
a biggie! Another thought is to get some FWD offset rims to run the XJ axle
as is.
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] speaking of carburetors
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200611061538.kA6Fc7D21853@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" All in all, last night was both exciting and productive!
Sadly, we found
" out an XJ diff was 2" wider than an '82 Spirit, but he'll be
able to rob the
" brake parts along with backing plates to "upgrade" the rear
brakes to 10".
warning! afaik the housing ends are not the same. the early
d35 has
amc20 housing flanges, the c-clip d35 has mopar pattern housing
flanges. neither are like the amc15. i don't think the backing
plates will work without redrilling the attachment holes.
" Maybe we can have the XJ D35 axle shortened and resplined to
fit the Model
" 15?
now that's a thought. there's supposed to be a bearing/seal
changeover kit for fitting d35 axles into early-xj amc15hd
housings...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all
have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 16:06:23 +0000
From: "johnny kazek" <johnnykazek@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Rambler Cross Country Side Trim?
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY119-F3344E31B459D07BF0BA87FA5F20@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"
Michael Pell's "Big Ugly" 61 Rambler Cross Country and my 60 don't
have any chrome trim on the
sides [1]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b12/johnnyzoom/ramblerstar
t.jpg . Mine shows no signs that it's been taken off, yet I've seen
pictures of same year and model with the trim. Anyone know the
story behind this, was it a package back then?
Thanks- Johnny
_________________________________________________________________
[2]Try Search Survival Kits: Fix up your home and better handle your
cash with Live Search!
References
1. http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b12/johnnyzoom/ramblerstart.jpg
2. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENUS/2731??PS=47575
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 10:49:47 -0700
From: Jim Shadwick <idahoamx@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Pacer trany
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jeanne <jeannem2000@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <4550C73B.2080904@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hi guys...
1. Does a 75 258 Pacer have a lockup tranny.....
2. I have a 76 258 with auto attached....not sure what it came out
of....will it fit...is it a lockup
Thanks,
Jim
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.30/521 - Release Date: 11/7/2006
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:50:25 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] speaking of carburetors
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200611071750.kA7HoPU04578@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" I could have sworn we measured the housing ends and they were the same? Not
" a biggie!
according to http://www.tsmmfg.com/Rear_Disc_Brake_Kits.htm pre-'90
are the same as the amc20 and btw ford 'small bearing'; '90-up are
mopar pattern. they don't show an amc15 pattern but i've seen it
-somewhere-... if it happens to match the mopar... but i don't think
it does.
" Another thought is to get some FWD offset rims to run the XJ axle as is.
why not eagle/xj rims? their offset is quite a bit more than
'regular' amc rims. remember the eagle's rear is pretty much a match
for the xj's and it fits under the hornet-spirit body...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 12:58:58 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Pacer trany
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200611071758.kA7Hwwb04627@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: Jim Shadwick <idahoamx@xxxxxxxxx>
"
"
" 1. Does a 75 258 Pacer have a lockup tranny.....
"
" 2. I have a 76 258 with auto attached....not sure what it came out
" of....will it fit...is it a lockup
i don't think lockups appeared until the early '80s, so your two
trannies should be identical. even so a lockup should be an easy
swap. the only new thing should be the lockup switch.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 17:29:59 GMT
From: "pleuriticus@xxxxxxxxxxx" <pleuriticus@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] lump-mass
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061107.093005.21052.1205585@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Url: http://www.amc-list.com/pipermail/amc-list/attachments/20061107/ab0d5b44/attachment.ksh
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:02:29 -0500
From: "BUS-ENG" <jay@xxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Pacer trany
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <02f101c70296$e78bb070$0300a8c0@ts800>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
No. Model 904; version of
727 Torqueflyte.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Shadwick" <idahoamx@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "Jeanne" <jeannem2000@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 12:49 PM
Subject: [AMC-List] Pacer trany
> Hi guys...
>
> 1. Does a 75 258 Pacer have a lockup tranny.....
>
> 2. I have a 76 258 with auto attached....not sure what it came out
> of....will it fit...is it a lockup
>
> Thanks,
> Jim
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.30/521 - Release Date: 11/7/2006
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:05:30 -0600
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 'check this freak' <> Speaking of Suspensions
<>
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01AA19EA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I CAN shoe - horn a Toyota Supra Twin Turbo Inline 6 in
and bolt up to the Lexus 6spd tho......... hmmm
----------------------------
But Brien, you can build a twin turbo AMC six for about the same price
as the Supra engine, and would be a lot easier to install! I'm not as
against using Japanese and European engines as other hot rodders. The
way I see it if you're changing brand engines you may as well use the
best engine that suits your purposes, or defer to easy availability
(like you just happen to have a buddy with a wrecked Supra or whatever
who wants to get rid of it cheap, and you have a Hornet with a blown
engine and lots of time...). Once you're swapping from the original make
it just doesn't matter to me if you're using a US engine or not. But I
prefer to stay close to the original if possible within reason. I do
plan on using a Ford 2.3L turbo four in an American roadster project,
and the main reason is I know it's a heck of a strong four and I got it
and the T-5 mated to it cheap. The original plan was to look for a Jeep
four, no turbo. When the turbo Merkur XR4ti came up for $250, complete
car, I got to thinking turbo, T-5, AND a IRS package that would fit the
2 American body... all as bonuses to buying the engine!! To hard to pass
that up!! So it suited my purposes (a reasonably powerful four) and was
cheap, plus all the bonus parts to work with! This is going to be a
rather radical custom anyway, not a resto-rod, so I'm not as concerned
about keeping it all AMC. Will probably build, play with a while, then
sell to finance a real AMC project. That's if it's successful. I plan on
learning a lot of body work techniques with this project, and could end
up with a ruined body -- depends on my sectioning success! I'd love to
move the cowl back too, but that might be more than I'm willing to
attempt. Take a look at the Bud XR-400. It's a cut up 62 Classic. I'd
like to do something similar with my 62 American, but will likely just
section it 3-4", weld the doors shut, take the top off, and strengthen
the under body (convertible type cross bracing -- ever seen the
underside of a 61-63 convertible? Amazingly stiff body!!).
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:05:30 -0600
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Speaking of Suspensions-Now turbos
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01AA19E9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
SMILE WHEN YOU SAY THAT!!
But for sure, I have had a desire to build a turbo I-6 and I have a low
Mileage 232 to serve as a base for one. I just wonder what it would take
to
screw together a 232 with a hair dryer that would embarrass a GN Buick.
--------------------
I don't know about embarrassing a GN, but it sure wouldn't take much to
embarrass a lot of vehicles! But then Tom's got the setup needed to
embarrass a GN. Just isn't easy to package an ex Indy engine in a car!
The only thing I can come up with is an American or 63-65 Classic coupe
(hmmm.... an old Typhoon coupe -- make it REALLY live up to the name!)
with the left spring tower removed to make room for the turbo, which
wouldn't be far over the tire.
Leave the American rails by cutting the inner wheel wells off about an
inch above the ral (make sure you leave the spot welds and a little
extra) then bracing with 1" tubing. Use the lower control arms and
crossmember from the American, and install struts (aftermarket early
mustang kit or a modified Volvo or 280ZX strut) to eliminate the upper
control arms. The upper strut mounts should clear the turbo, the upper
control arm mounts are mostly in the way. I've seen this done on a
Chrysler late 60s/early 70s Dart body in a drag car. I was surprised to
see the factory rails in front, but looked like it was holding up well,
and had been in use for several years. Owner said it would pick the
front wheel up off the ground (built 440 -- I believe it!) and even with
slamming down on occasion he'd never had any problems. The eight point
roll cage helped though!
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 13:05:30 -0600
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] List Traffic - light right now...
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01AA19EB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Traffic seems to go up and down with projects and weather. When
someone's working on a project and has questions traffic goes up, but
when the weather is good and people are out working on their cars it
seems to go down -- until they have a question. A lot of people just
lurk as well, and the archives are a lot more searchable now that
they're all on the www.amc-list.com site (all since the move to the new
server). 15 mails a day, mostly relevant to AMC, are better than 30-40
with over half being trivial things, I guess. But we can stand some
trivial matters when traffic is low! ;>
As Tom mentioned, the messages are going out to a large enough group,
there are just more people listening than talking!
I do want to mention that anyone can post comments/opinions at any time,
about anything relating to AMC or AMC projects, or even problems they
are having with another car they feel someone here can help with. If
someone "jumps on you" with a differing opinion, like if you post "how
do I install a Chevy V-8 in my Rambler" (or a Toyota Tundra V-8/Supra
six.. ;> ), don't worry about it! As long as they keep it reasonably
calm no moderator will say anything -- everyone has a right to their
opinion and it IS YOUR CAR. If they jump down your throat on the list
I'll definitely put the brakes on THEM. The same with any "flame job"
here on the list. Differing opinion is one thing, a perceived "attack"
is another. You won't likely see anything posted on the list itself, I
usually e-mail the offender directly and ask them to settle down. That's
usually all it takes. I only post on the list if there is an entire
thread getting out of hand and more than one person needs to be
addressed. The main thing to remember is if someone does respond to a
post in a manner that you perceive as "flaming" or "attacking" you,
DON'T RESPOND TO THEM -- at least not in a like manner. If it continues
past one or two posts Tom or I will send the offender a message, and if
necessary BOTH parties will be asked to cool it! If anyone has a problem
they should e-mail Tom or I and let us handle it. Keeps list traffic
down a little, but only negative comments. The only thing we won't
intervene in is if someone is sending you direct e-mail. In that case
you'll have to delete their messages and not respond, or contact your
ISP and have their address blocked. I've had to delete an individuals
messages for a month or two before they finally realized I wasn't going
to respond and gave up trying to goad me into an e-mail dialogue that
wouldn't have proved a thing.
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 16
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