Re: [AMC-List] Overdrive Options?

["Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM" <Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

" However it's for a torque-tube car, Andrew may know if the
" output shaft is 100% identical to the open T96, and if only
" the tailshaft housing would swap on.

And 

" Well I have both a t96 with O/D sitting on my slab
" here at home and a t-14 from my 76 Gremlin sitting in
" the garage.  I'll try to look at both pieces tonight
" and let you know if I think the tailshaft from the
" T-14 would swap onto the rear of the T96/OD.

i'll bet this won't work.  these trannies do not have separate
mainshafts and tailshafts, so you'd need to look for a t14 o/d
mainshaft.  the o/d adapters are probably different lengths too, as i
was told a t14-o/d was the same length overall as a t96.  and the t14
is not closely related to the t96; it looks much more like a t86 -
6-bolt top cover, etc.

i believe the o/d unit tailshaft is the same, and between open and tt
cars, with only the housing different.

----------------------

1. Torque tube or not doesn't matter -- the trans and rear seal are the
same. Open drive cars had a small seal adapter that drives into the
output shaft surround on a short tailshaft housing. The OD cars have an
adapter with a flange for the tube that also carries the seal. The
splines are the same and the flange won't interfere with the driveshaft,
so just leave it on. The flange should fit in the trans tunnel, but will
be close in the back. If it gets in the way a sawz-all or hack saw will
take care of the problem, it just won't be any good for a TT car
anymore. 

2. The only difference in Borg-Warner OD units between transmissions is
the 1"-1.5" adapter between the trans and OD unit. OD equipped
transmissions have a short output shaft similar to a 4x4 trans (though
not the same -- could be on older ones that used BW transfer cases, but
I suspect not). So you can't bolt the OD unit to a standard three speed
without the correct adapter and output shaft in the trans. The OD unit
has it's own unique (to AMC) tailshaft housing which is very short. AMC
made the tailshaft housing on the standard trans long so that it and OD
equipped cars (as well as autos) would use the same driveshaft -- at
least in the early sixties. All six cylinder 63 Classics use the same
torque tube and rear axle anyway. 

3. It is POSSIBLE to "remote mount" the BW OD unit. That requires making
a front case cover, crossmember, and sleeve to link the trans and OD
together. I've seen it done with a pair of trans yokes back to back with
a U-joint between them. This makes for a short drive shaft and it's a
lot of work though. Not only that, but takes a little machining
knowledge and tools (a good router and drill press with carbide bits are
okay for non-precision work with aluminum, with lots of care!). It's not
advisable since trannys are available. 

4. I wouldn't recommend a T-96. The T-96J has slightly larger bearings
and shafts, but was only used by AMC 70-72 or so -- the last use of it.
That's was in Gremlins and Hornets with 232, and it was stressed to the
limit then. In a heavier car I wouldn't put it behind anything more than
a stock 199 1V. I ran one with a 4.0L in my Classic for a while -- the
synchronizer (only between 2 and 3 -- not designed for downshifts into
first except at a stop!) went in about 150 miles, that's the weakest
part in it. The gears held up fine, though I was double clutching to
down shift (only 3-2, remember!) and timing upshifts "just right" or
double clutching then too. Not fun! After 10-12K miles the gear clusters
look like they have 30-35K on them -- they were new when I put the trans
in. At 10-12K miles they shouldn't have shown any wear. I rebuilt the J
model since I had it and thought it would last a while. It did, but
there's no way to strengthen the synchro. With a carbed 232 it will last
a lot longer than with a 4.0L, especially if you know it's a problem and
baby it. But it will eventually go. A T-85 or T-89 from a V-8 car won't
work, the input shaft is to long for the six cylinder bell and the trans
to bell pattern is different. I was going to get a GEN-2/3 AMC V-8 T-10
bell, that's the pattern the T-85/89 trans uses (T-10 is a T-89 with
fourth gear replacing reverse in the main case, reverse in the new
tailshaft housing), and put one of those behind my 4.6L, but couldn't
find one close by.

5. You're limited by the early model six. If you're thinking about
rebuilding later, I'd get a 72 or later 258 or 4.0L from a salvage yard
and use that. Change the transmission with the rebuilt engine and use
what you have for now. The later block will bolt right in where yours
is, just use the mounts off the original. That's the best way to update
a driver. If you want to keep it stock you need the correct trans, of
course. Your 69 has a VIN that gives trans type though, so you can't
just change it and call it "restored" like you can pre 66 models with no
trans type indicator. You can use 1980 or later two piece intake and
exhaust manifolds on a 4.0L head or a 258 head on a 4.0L (and
vice-versa). You can make a spacer between the bolt together intake and
exhaust and put them on a 4.0L. No one has done it yet, but I see no
reason it won't work. The 4.0L intake ports are raised 1/8" 87-90, 1/4"
91-06 from the 258. Should work with a corresponding spacer. The 4.0L
head flows better though the ports are smaller (better shape/position),
and is a popular upgrade among Jeepers with still good 258s. Lots of
options here! The 4.0L block has no provision for a mechanical fuel
pump, so you would have to use an electric with a carb.

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