AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 30
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 30
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- Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 16:25:26 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Carter BBD alternatives (jackbarncord@xxxxxxx)
2. Six or Eight speed manual trans, anyone?
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
3. 196 ohv performance camshaft (M Walter)
4. Re: performance cam for 196 ohv
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
5. 287/327 Piston Heights (Michael Bailey)
6. AMC Sighting Old Commercials (Hambrick, Barry)
7. Rambler Rescue Patrol -- Update (Richard Estermyer)
8. Re: 196 ohv performance camshaft (Mark Price)
9. Air Conditioning (Don Johnson)
10. Re: 287/327 Piston Heights (Mark Price)
11. Re: Six or Eight speed manual trans, anyone? (Mark Price)
12. Re: 287/327 Piston Heights-MATH (Glenn Ford)
13. 57 Metropolitan coupe..HAS to go (Joe)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 13:11:17 +0000
From: jackbarncord@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] Carter BBD alternatives
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx (AMC List)
Message-ID:
<101120061311.28508.452CED7500046A2D00006F5C21602807410B9D010C029D0E0D050C0E06@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Re: #6 not firing?
Not even a squeak.
Re: Check for a vacuum hose off the tap on the intake
Check! I've been all over this engine checking for vacuum leaks, open taps and the like before replacing the carb. The engine idles rather effortlessly now, by comparison.
Re: or a loose intake bolt
Check! Again this was one of the items checked before the carb was scrapped, but I could do a spray test with some WD40 around the #6 runner and see if that picks the cylinder up. Still, I say valve or push rod.
Re: check the compression on #6.
Not yet, but time is a premium commodity and tonight's ration includes a compression test. My guess is a burnt valve, the cranking compression test says that one cylinder is a in a no load condition. Doesn't mean it couldn't be a bent or disconnected push rod as you mention, that would be preferable. My luck or lack of it, it's a burnt valve.
Re: I had an engine that had a nasty habit of dropping the #6 intake pushrod.
This would be lovely! I'm not looking forward to pulling the head.(bad back and I work alone)
Thanks for the tips, I'll post my findings.
Jack
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 08:25:18 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Six or Eight speed manual trans, anyone?
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01986AE3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I was looking through the Advance Adapters catalog and noticed something
that might be interesting -- the "Ranger Torque Splitter". It's 7.5"
long and fits between the bell and trans (Ford style trans, which should
be the same as AMC). It has a 27% OD and is fully synchronized, allowing
splitting all gears. The gear spread in most trannys wouldn't make it
worthwhile to split all gears I'm sure, but it could be done. The
"Twin-Stick" three speed trans had a wide gap between 2nd and 3rd so it
could be shifted like a five speed (1-2-2OD-3-3OD). Column shift three
speeds would only need longer shift rods and a hole cut for the Ranger
shift lever. Four speeds would be a problem, the four speed shifter
would be moved 7.5" further back, between bucket seats. That distance
could likely be reduced some, but the shifter would still need to be
moved bck 3-4" at least. It would be interesting, but costs about the
same as a Gear Vendors OD unit ($1504.20 plus shipping).
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:48:50 -0400
From: "M Walter" <redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 196 ohv performance camshaft
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY126-F33817FFEC205481C298A4DDE140@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hello,and bless your little turbo flathead hearts. And yes, it would be
cool!!! My goal is to get more power from my dual holley 196 ohv engine.
It seems that one of my few options is to put in a performance cam. A (dare
I say it) turbo, sounds cool but I dont know what that does to the vaccuum
advance or other vaccuum issues. But that is not what I'm looking to do. I
guess I'll have to start asking the engine shops about welding and grinding
one. Yes, I'll send some pictures when I have it put back toghether again as
Iam puttig in valves right now. THANK YOU redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx
_________________________________________________________________
Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:07:39 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] performance cam for 196 ohv
To: <redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01986B4D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
I had the cam cut for a 196 OHV -- 20* more duration, 0.10" more lift.
It didn't affect bottom end at all, gave an added boost of ~20 hp in the
mid range (where it was most needed). The car actually had a bit of
passing and pulling power while cruising! I also had a 2" exhaust system
with 16" generic turbo muffler and an open air filter, which helped the
engine breathe better than the stock 1-1/4" tail pipe. I retained the
1-7/8" head pipe (from engine to muffler) as it fit snugly inside a 2"
pipe and I didn't have to be concerned with having a pipe made to fit
the original manifold.
The cam is definitely different from a flat head cam. The bearings are
the same, so the cam would fit, but the lobe profiles are totally
different. Flat head lifters act directly on the lobes, the OHV has
1.6:1 rocker arms. The OHV cam wouldn't have close to enough lift for
the flat head.
IIRC your car is a flat head/auto combo -- a red 61-63 two door wagon,
right? The turbo muffler isn't real loud, though noticeably louder than
the can't-hear-it-running stock muffler. Nash got 110 hp from the 196
L-head by using a 2V carb and glass pack muffler with resonator (to
eliminate the "bark" of a glass pack). A good 16" or longer generic
turbo muffler would be about the same. It's a little louder than stock,
but not really loud. You could use a generic replacement (non-turbo)
muffler w/2" in and 2" out and probably get about the same effect as a
turbo muffler. The tailpipe size is the real restriction. You can get a
2V to 1V adapter that works fine on the L-head, but that's probably not
needed. The L-head already has an open air filter, so no help there.
If you don't want the mods obvious, I'd stick with the muffler/tailpipe
and a cam change. A modest increase in the cam won't affect heat that
much. Lift is limited by the height of the combustion chamber over the
valves. You need some clearance, and I don't know how much is there now.
Another 0.10" lift should be doable without machining the chambers for
additional clearance, but the only way to find out is to pull the head,
put a spot of clay on the valves, then reinstall the head with the old
gasket (and torque down at least 2/3 required torque) and turn the
engine at least one complete revolution. Then pull the head and measure
the thickness of the clay. You only have to measure one cylinder, of
course. Any company that produces cams for flat heads (even the Ford
V-8s) will know the limits for cutting a flat head cam as far as
overlap. Most cam companies will regrind a good used cam for you, it
just takes a few weeks. I had Lunati in TN cut mine. I just called and
told them I wanted a little more driving power, they suggested the
grind.
I don't think a modest amount of turbo boost (3-5 psi) would cause to
much of a heat problem. ALL flat head engines have a problem with heat
due to the exhaust passages in the head. Superchargers are used on Ford
flat head V-8s with no problems. I'd just stick an oil cooler on the oil
line between he filter and block (something small like a VW bug cooler
is enough) to help out a bit, and install a shroud on the fan -- maybe
the five blade fan used on AC equipped cars too. The L-head 196 has an
open four blade fan stock, so it won't take much to improve on that!
Now where have you guys heard about bolting a turbo flange directly to
the L-head carb mount? ;> I mentioned I'd like to do that a lng time
ago, with a 1V throttle body right between the head and turbo instead of
the carb. I think the hood is high enough on the American to do that. It
would be easy to drill the side of the block for injectors. I'd just use
four injectors since there are only four intake passages (two inner ones
are siamesed). I suppose I could use a sequential computer and have it
fire the two inner injectors twice for whatever cycle was needed. Or use
a TBI computer and injectors, but centrally mount the injectors in the
side of the instead of in the throttle body to keep height of the TB to
a minimum. Could use a "suck through" setup with a 1V TBI unit instead
of a carb though. A TBI unit would be a good alternative for the Navarro
carb setup, Tom.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 07:11:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 287/327 Piston Heights
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061011141113.95179.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Someone on the List here wrote:
Lots of room in the trunk on one of these for a big LPG tank! 4 barrel 327
runs about 9.7:1 in compression the Jeep engine you have is two barrel
and drops down around 9:1, maybe 8,7:1. I think the two barrel just uses
a shorter piston height. I've never found the piston heights to know
for sure.
---------> According to the "American Motors Performance Engine Book"
edited by Dick Datson of Total Performance Independents,
"It should be assumed that pistons for 327 V8's (8.7 and 9.7 to 1)can be
interchanged in complete sets as the only apparent difference is 3/64"
less height on 8.7 to 1 pistons". The chart shown lists the height of 4
barrel pistons at 1-15/16, and the height of 2 barrel pistons at 1-57/64. It
should be noted that this is actually 2/64 or 1/32 difference in height,
not 3/64 as stated above.
I only just got the book and was looking through it when I saw your
note. I have no idea at this point in time whether or not this book is
worth the paper it's printed on. Take it with a grain of salt.
mike
---------------------------------
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:31:41 -0400
From: "Hambrick, Barry" <BHambrick@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC Sighting Old Commercials
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<3E1BE90DED3BE348A7ED5914944A50729CDC9F@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Just thought that I would share a couple of old AMC commercials, the
Rebel commercial is very funny. You will need "real player" installed in
order to view these.
http://www.tvparty.com/g2c/javelin00.ram
http://www.tvparty.com/g2c/rebel00.ram
Thanks,
Barry
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:12:40 -0400
From: "Richard Estermyer" <javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Rambler Rescue Patrol -- Update
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY106-F12C35EA41BFBDED558D973DD140@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hey Gang,
Just wanted to let you know that the layout is complete for the Rambler
Rescue Patrol booklet. I have 16 contacts in 14 states represented. There
is pleanty of room for more.
This was prompted with the request for someone from WA in the list. This is
exactly for that. Not just to help out, but for any type of contact of
questions, knowledge, etc. Just an AMC contact person anywhere. The list
responded quickly, though, also a good thing about our group.
Hopefully I can make contact with the clubs now to see if more want to be
added. It is available for the asking, and is updated as they come in. I
have a group of e-mails of all in the book and they get the updates as
produced, automatically.
It is ready to print out or keep on the computer. IF you want to print out
a 2 sided booklet, I have that available also (but new names come and
changes necessary). So that format would be good before a trip.
Anyway, just wanted to keep you posted and see if anyone has a suggestion
for more ways to promote it and grow it.
Also, getting info about an 1983 Eagle 2 door here in MI. I will spread the
word once I have it.
Have a GREAT week, and don't let these talks of SNOW flurries bother you too
much!
Blessings
Richard
Richard Estermyer
PhotoGraphics
6235 S. Mohawk Avenue
Ypsilanti, MI 48197
734.483.5187
734.417.9456 cell
javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 8:47:47 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 196 ohv performance camshaft
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: M Walter <redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <18597335.1160581667196.JavaMail.root@web11>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
no welding involved on a cam regrind.
They take the base circle down to increase the lift.
You will need longer pushrods.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- M Walter <redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hello,and bless your little turbo flathead hearts. And yes, it would be
> cool!!! My goal is to get more power from my dual holley 196 ohv engine.
> It seems that one of my few options is to put in a performance cam. A (dare
> I say it) turbo, sounds cool but I dont know what that does to the vaccuum
> advance or other vaccuum issues. But that is not what I'm looking to do. I
> guess I'll have to start asking the engine shops about welding and grinding
> one. Yes, I'll send some pictures when I have it put back toghether again as
> Iam puttig in valves right now. THANK YOU redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Be seen and heard with Windows Live Messenger and Microsoft LifeCams
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/digitalcommunication/default.mspx?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 11:53:35 -0400
From: Don Johnson <donjohnson@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Air Conditioning
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <010901c6ed4d$6907ee70$6400a8c0@DONS>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Hi, I'm still working on the Air Conditioning for my AMX. I have solved the problem with the compressor but I'm still unable to locate the heater/AC panel for the dash with the cables if possible.
Also, can anyone supply me with a good picture of the setup on the front of a V8 with power steering. I have recently bought an idler pulley that someone said I needed, however the parts book doesn't show the idler and I'm unable to find where it mounts.
Thanks for any help you can give me. You can call @450-458-2668 or email at don_nsx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Don
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 8:56:32 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 287/327 Piston Heights
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <21740697.1160582192537.JavaMail.root@web11>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Thanks,
I wrote that. I thought that was how the compression was dropped as I was pretty sure they ran flattop pistons in both engines.
I looked at the shortblock in my shop yesterday and it is a 4 barrel engine.
Just doing a rough check of two pistons at tdc they are over .060" down the hole.
The engine uses steel shim head gaskets, so even the four barrel could use some decking to get the pistons up to a quench compliant state.
I'm thinking of starting the search for a fresh set of 4 barrel pistons.
My Jeep 327 is the 2 barrel variant. It only has 37,000 miles on it so it should be good for standard bore pistons barring some unknown at this time problem.
Be nice to find a piston with a slight dish to keep it at 9-1 for gas but get it into quench. Probably not worth the trouble just speculating at this time.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Michael Bailey <route66rambler@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> Someone on the List here wrote:
>
> Lots of room in the trunk on one of these for a big LPG tank! 4 barrel 327
>
> runs about 9.7:1 in compression the Jeep engine you have is two barrel
>
> and drops down around 9:1, maybe 8,7:1. I think the two barrel just uses
>
> a shorter piston height. I've never found the piston heights to know
>
> for sure.
>
> ---------> According to the "American Motors Performance Engine Book"
>
> edited by Dick Datson of Total Performance Independents,
>
> "It should be assumed that pistons for 327 V8's (8.7 and 9.7 to 1)can be
>
> interchanged in complete sets as the only apparent difference is 3/64"
>
> less height on 8.7 to 1 pistons". The chart shown lists the height of 4
>
> barrel pistons at 1-15/16, and the height of 2 barrel pistons at 1-57/64. It
>
> should be noted that this is actually 2/64 or 1/32 difference in height,
>
> not 3/64 as stated above.
>
> I only just got the book and was looking through it when I saw your
>
> note. I have no idea at this point in time whether or not this book is
>
> worth the paper it's printed on. Take it with a grain of salt.
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 9:05:45 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Six or Eight speed manual trans, anyone?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <27298214.1160582745233.JavaMail.root@web11>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
That price is a good $1000 less then a Gear Vendors by the time you figure gv's controller into the equation.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- "Swygert wrote:
> I was looking through the Advance Adapters catalog and noticed something
> that might be interesting -- the "Ranger Torque Splitter". It's 7.5"
> long and fits between the bell and trans (Ford style trans, which should
> be the same as AMC). It has a 27% OD and is fully synchronized, allowing
> splitting all gears. The gear spread in most trannys wouldn't make it
> worthwhile to split all gears I'm sure, but it could be done. The
> "Twin-Stick" three speed trans had a wide gap between 2nd and 3rd so it
> could be shifted like a five speed (1-2-2OD-3-3OD). Column shift three
> speeds would only need longer shift rods and a hole cut for the Ranger
> shift lever. Four speeds would be a problem, the four speed shifter
> would be moved 7.5" further back, between bucket seats. That distance
> could likely be reduced some, but the shifter would still need to be
> moved bck 3-4" at least. It would be interesting, but costs about the
> same as a Gear Vendors OD unit ($1504.20 plus shipping).
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 10:06:17 -0600
From: "Glenn Ford" <gcmford@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 287/327 Piston Heights-MATH
To: "mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000301c6ed4f$30159d40$6501a8c0@ARCNSPARKNB>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Michael, back away from the boring bar, LOL!
15/16" = 60/64", subtract 57/64" = 3/64", as stated.
"I cut it 3 times and it was STILL too short." Famous electrician joke.
Glenn Ford
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2006 09:25:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe <jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 57 Metropolitan coupe..HAS to go
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061011162522.35575.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Still working on my re-arranging my garage,finishing
up(five years after built)the
walls..insulating,nailing up osb board ,painting..I'm
OUT of room to move stuff into. I NEED to sell my 57
Metro coupe. I have alot of extra parts, also NEW
brake parts for it. Little body work needed. Was in a
museum for 15 years. Located in central Illionlis
COULD deliver for fee. $3500/offers? Please email
direct..winter is coming FAST..NEED to finish up my
shop!! Gotta re-asemble my wife's 74 AMX,,suspension
with new springs from /rear. Install
engine/trans/rearend. THEN i can do my 401/Gremlin
swap!! NEED to move. Thankyou Joe 309-338-3210(cell)
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 30
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