AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 28

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: performance cam for 196 ohv (Sandwich Maker)
   2. AMC Pacer sighting...in cartoon (Eddie Stakes)
   3. javelin headers (Nick ALFANO)
   4. Re: Carter BBD alternatives (Ken Ames)
   5. Re: performance cam for 196 ohv (Tom Jennings)
   6. Re: AMC Pacer sighting...in cartoon (Tom Jennings)
   7. Re: Javelin Headers (Todd Tomason)
   8. Re: AMC Pacer sighting...in cartoon (Mark Price)
   9. Re: performance cam for 196 ohv (Mark Price)
  10. Re: Anyone on the list in Bellingham, WA? (Jim Blair)
  11. Re: performance cam for 196 ohv (Mark Price)
  12. Re: Anyone on the list in Bellingham, WA? (Mark Price)
  13. Re: Anyone on the list in Bellingham, WA? (Jim Blair)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:53:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] performance cam for 196 ohv
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610102153.k9ALrPc27533@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

" From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
" 
" On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Mark Price wrote:
" 
" >   Last what is the existing power band like in a flathead? You may kill it if you do much of anything!!!
" 
" Turbo. Turbo flathead! That'll teach those in-head passageways
" who's boss!
" 
" I wouldn't run hardly any boost, but hell, anything would help
" that thing. 3, 4psi? 
" 
" It would look great! If you don't know (Mark does), the carb
" bolts right onto the HEAD. The "manifold" is scraped out gouges
" on the inside of the head, somewhat (umm...) limiting flow. You
" could bolt the turbo outlet right to the head, get a sideways
" Carter YF from a Corvair...

that's a 'yh', also common in marine setups.  iirc the graymarine 327
used a pair oriented fore and aft - a mistake, as in the typical
tilted inboard installation gas tends to dribble out of the aft carb
on starting and get ignited by the starter.  fires were not uncommon.
a cow-orker some years ago picked up a twin inboard cheap after one.
the toasted engine had the yh intake replaced by a rambler 4bbl one
with a marine holley.

i took several good hard squints at an ohv 196, last chance i had.
i wanted to mill little steps into the throats of the intake passages,
so that you could butt individual tubes up against them.  then you
could fab a ram's horn sort of intake like the mpi ford 300 six's, and
the former intake plate would serve mostly to attach the new manifold.

this wouldn't be needed for a turbo, but it would sure pop eyes out!

" Man that would look cool! I bet you could squeeze... 125hp from it!
" 
" Seriously... a little turbo in a flathead  American with very, very
" modest boost would be a really good thing. Simply size it for
" reliability and the weak T96 transmission and not stress the motor.

you could easily swap the t96 for a t14.  they were used behind 304s;
i'm not really sure they're good for 300 ft-lbs, but a lot more than
the t96 at any rate.  they have the same nose as the t96.  and they're
full synchro!

" Simply size the turbo such that maximum boost at maximum engine
" RPM is well within safe range and you could dispense with
" all controls and pop valves. 

if you're serious you should also polish, balance, and shotpeen the
internals, but after that you should be able to run quite a lot of
boost if you're after torque [mid rpm] and not hp [top end].

" With the silly exhaust system that motor uses, making a pipe
" to go up to the turbo would be fairly easy.

what would you do for a hp clutch?  i -think- the 10" pp used on slant
sixes would fit, with an amc disc like the perfection rcf448.  a
regular 10" pp won't, because the 196 flywheel is big enough but
doesn't have the bolt pattern.  the slant clutch was also used on some
273s so it should be do the job, and afaik has the little 9 1/8"
pattern.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:10:31 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC Pacer sighting...in cartoon
To: <baadassGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <008c01c6ecb9$563ef7f0$e8f3b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

The kids had the Cartoon Network on last night and Futurama came on about
9:30. I like Futurama so decided to watch it. They go back in time to NYC
which is a hellhole. There is a automotive construction like with robots
making 'new' cars with big Fred Flintstone wooden clubs. The cars are called
Lumiarie or something like that but no mistaking what the car was...a Pacer.
Fry, Leila and Bender the robot steal the Pacer and go careening thru NYC
until Fry totals it out.

The episode is called "The Lesser Of Two Evils" and appears to be from the
second season according to the www.gotfuturama.com website.

Here are some "stills" of the "new" 2000 'Pacer' (still can't remember the 
name they mentioned of it on Futurama)
http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/FrameGrabs/2ACV06/
and the Pacer itself:
http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/FrameGrabs/2ACV06/Grabs/pic00153.jpg

check out the door:
http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/FrameGrabs/2ACV06/Grabs/pic00163.jpg

and if you go to page two,
http://www.gotfuturama.com/Multimedia/FrameGrabs/2ACV06/dispatch.cgi?target=index2
there are a number of stills with Bender, Leila and Fry (driving) the Pacer. 
And also a few shots of inside the car, and well, Fry runs over a Bender 
style robot and craters the front of the car!
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
Email is currently HEAVY
5-12 day reply times, call if important



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 16:16:04 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick ALFANO <71amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] javelin headers
To: amc list <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20061010231604.37185.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Todd,

What year Javelin?  Square port or dogleg and what
engine mods are done?

If it is 68-69 square port head, there is not as much
available.  Hooker makes two styles, a regular
competition header and an equal length tube super
comp.  I have a set of the ceramic coated equal length
super comps new in the box.  

If it is a 70-74 with a Dogleg, then there are a lot
more choices.  The two best off the shelf headers for
fitment are the Headmen headers and the Hooker Super
Comps.  The Edelbrock shorties are fine if you don't
have much of a cam or don't want a full length header.

Nick Alfano
Alfano Performance
Kenosha, WI. 53142
262-308-1302
262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends

Message: 1
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 07:01:08 -0500
From: Todd Tomason <jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Javelin Headers
To: AMC List <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<200610100701.08199.jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Anyone have any recommendations on which headers to
buy for my Javelin?  
The 
old rusty ones that came with the car just won't seal
anymore.  

Todd


Alfano Performance
Kenosha, WI. 53142
262-308-1302
262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 18:36:44 -0600
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Carter BBD alternatives
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1160527004.452c3c9c6ce33@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

#6 not firing? Check for a vacuum hose off the tap on the intake between #5 and
#6, or a loose intake bolt, and lastly, but hopefully not the one, check the
compression on #6. I had an engine that had a nasty habit of dropping the #6
intake pushrod. Compression would only be about 5psi even though the cylinder
was fine. Refit the pushrod and hope it doesn't happen again.  :)

Ken 


Quoting jackbarncord@xxxxxxx:

> <Matt>
> >Gunk sells carburetor cleaner in gallon containers that works much, 
> >much faster than what you're describing.
> 
> It probably wouldn't have taken three hours to achieve the desired result, I
> was just being thorough.  Thanks for the tip though, I'll check it out.  I
> usually do one carburetor a year, minimum, the snow plow sets all spring,
> summer and fall without use.  F350 4 x 4 with a 400.  I can't afford to move
> that one too often so the carb suffers the pains of being dry for several
> months.
> 
> I fabricated the choke bracket and the two connecting links, high idle and
> choke yesterday after work  Installed the carburetor and the Spirit lives. 
> The car starts fine, runs on high idle fine, although more adjustments in the
> linkage will improve things.  After warming up the car did something I'm
> certain it hadn't done for quite some time, Idle.  Alas, this is a troubled
> Spirit, cylinder number six isn't firing.  I didn't have time to dig into
> some of the obvious causes, but it seem to have spark, atleast when it
> knocked on my butt I figured that was a good indicator.  What a rush..
> 
> I was tempted to button it up and go for a ride, but like I said, "out of
> time for today."
> 
> This Holley substitution for the Carter seems to be a good one.  I think I
> would still prefer the non-feedback Carter due to the ease of adjustments
> that carburetor offers.  Who knows, I'll keep my eyes open, with my glasses
> on, for one off a slant super six.  If I had a dime for every one I changed
> accellerator pump rubbers on in 1977. . . 
> 
> I have to let the Spirit set for a few days while I get the Truck ready to
> move the AMX.  She needs brake work and general service before the trip.
> 
> Jack
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> 
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
> 




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:37:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] performance cam for 196 ohv
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610101730170.4995@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Sandwich Maker wrote:

> what would you do for a hp clutch?  

I really think very modest boost, for say 20hp, shouldn't stress
dead-stock American drivelines and would make the little car
quite drivable in modern traffic. If I recall, the flat 196 is
about 85hp; 20% more, or 102hp would be (1) a great improvement
and (2) cool as all hell and (3) not kill even the T96. Car
could remain otherwise 100% stock, and you could do it to an
existing engine in good working order. No mods except bolt-on
to engine or car.

I know the air-cooled M35 auto can take it; I've got one in a
Classic with a 232, 18 years and 200K? miles. It is only now
in serious need of a rebuild.

As opposed to building something from scratch, where I agree,
some care with engine internals, and a T14, etc, would be a good
idea. I imagine with the terrible (horrible!)  breathing that
old motor has, it would really respond well to boost.  Not so
sure the oiling system is up to actual performance though.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 17:58:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC Pacer sighting...in cartoon
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610101738130.4995@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Eddie Stakes wrote:

> The kids had the Cartoon Network on last night and Futurama came on about

The kids, Eddie? Uhuh.

> making 'new' cars with big Fred Flintstone wooden clubs. The cars are called
> Lumiarie or something like that but no mistaking what the car was...a Pacer.
> Fry, Leila and Bender the robot steal the Pacer and go careening thru NYC
> until Fry totals it out.

I watched that too last night, but not on purpose of
course. Uhuh, and I'm stickin' to my story.

Oh yeah, that was a green Pacer alright!


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:54:33 -0500
From: Todd Tomason <jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Javelin Headers
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610102054.33353.jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

If all goes well it will be a 401.  Plan B is a 360.  

On Tuesday 10 October 2006 14:24, Jim Shadwick wrote:
> Todd....
>
> What engine does  your Javelin in it????.....
>
> Jim


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:01:45 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC Pacer sighting...in cartoon
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <33109367.1160535705918.JavaMail.root@web17>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

65 American wagon during the Graffiti segment on Dead like me tonight.
Looked very clean, light blue only saw it in a couple of background shots, but it looked good.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV


---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote: 
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Eddie Stakes wrote:
> 
> > The kids had the Cartoon Network on last night and Futurama came on about
> 
> The kids, Eddie? Uhuh.
> 
> > making 'new' cars with big Fred Flintstone wooden clubs. The cars are called
> > Lumiarie or something like that but no mistaking what the car was...a Pacer.
> > Fry, Leila and Bender the robot steal the Pacer and go careening thru NYC
> > until Fry totals it out.
> 
> I watched that too last night, but not on purpose of
> course. Uhuh, and I'm stickin' to my story.
> 
> Oh yeah, that was a green Pacer alright!
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> 
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:04:29 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] performance cam for 196 ohv
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <32651170.1160535869414.JavaMail.root@web17>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

I hit a website tonight that mentioned overheating problems under heavy load duties due to the long inblock exhaust passaged cooking things. If this is true adding a turbo would only aggravate the condition.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV


---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote: 
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Sandwich Maker wrote:
> 
> > what would you do for a hp clutch?  
> 
> I really think very modest boost, for say 20hp, shouldn't stress
> dead-stock American drivelines and would make the little car
> quite drivable in modern traffic. If I recall, the flat 196 is
> about 85hp; 20% more, or 102hp would be (1) a great improvement
> and (2) cool as all hell and (3) not kill even the T96. Car
> could remain otherwise 100% stock, and you could do it to an
> existing engine in good working order. No mods except bolt-on
> to engine or car.
> 
> I know the air-cooled M35 auto can take it; I've got one in a
> Classic with a 232, 18 years and 200K? miles. It is only now
> in serious need of a rebuild.
> 
> As opposed to building something from scratch, where I agree,
> some care with engine internals, and a T14, etc, would be a good
> idea. I imagine with the terrible (horrible!)  breathing that
> old motor has, it would really respond well to boost.  Not so
> sure the oiling system is up to actual performance though.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> 
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:06:21 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Anyone on the list in Bellingham, WA?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F19ED8BE75D69E65C0B4301AC140@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Got a little more info on the car today (not much as I was driving at the 
time and trying to concentrate on the road) Car is beatifully running 327 4 
bbl (Woo Hoo! Part of the LPG conversion done already! Any head differences 
2bbl to 4 bbl?) Trans is slow to respond, but they are second owners (lady 
bought it 25 years ago in Ohio and can no longer drive due to age. Paint is 
still all original!)
   I need to roll up there with some cash in hand and see if they will do a 
deal (before my wife changes her mind about the Subaru. Did I mention the 
Rambler has less miles on it than her '01 Subaru that just rolled over 
100,000 on the way back from Thanksgiving dinner last night?)

_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial!  
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail



------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:08:56 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] performance cam for 196 ohv
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <10632893.1160536136296.JavaMail.root@web17>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

clutch, what about the smallish clutches used in V-8 monzas?
with right clamping force and judicious driving little clutches hold up well.  if you wait to smash the throttle till after the clutch in engaged things will last longer!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV


---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote: 
> On Tue, 10 Oct 2006, Sandwich Maker wrote:
> 
> > what would you do for a hp clutch?  
> 
> I really think very modest boost, for say 20hp, shouldn't stress
> dead-stock American drivelines and would make the little car
> quite drivable in modern traffic. If I recall, the flat 196 is
> about 85hp; 20% more, or 102hp would be (1) a great improvement
> and (2) cool as all hell and (3) not kill even the T96. Car
> could remain otherwise 100% stock, and you could do it to an
> existing engine in good working order. No mods except bolt-on
> to engine or car.
> 
> I know the air-cooled M35 auto can take it; I've got one in a
> Classic with a 232, 18 years and 200K? miles. It is only now
> in serious need of a rebuild.
> 
> As opposed to building something from scratch, where I agree,
> some care with engine internals, and a T14, etc, would be a good
> idea. I imagine with the terrible (horrible!)  breathing that
> old motor has, it would really respond well to boost.  Not so
> sure the oiling system is up to actual performance though.
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> 
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com



------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:18:33 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Anyone on the list in Bellingham, WA?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <2691096.1160536713509.JavaMail.root@web17>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

All the heads are the same. 287/327/327 4 barrel.

--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV


---- Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: 
> Got a little more info on the car today (not much as I was driving at the 
> time and trying to concentrate on the road) Car is beatifully running 327 4 
> bbl (Woo Hoo! Part of the LPG conversion done already! Any head differences 
> 2bbl to 4 bbl?) Trans is slow to respond, but they are second owners (lady 
> bought it 25 years ago in Ohio and can no longer drive due to age. Paint is 
> still all original!)
>    I need to roll up there with some cash in hand and see if they will do a 
> deal (before my wife changes her mind about the Subaru. Did I mention the 
> Rambler has less miles on it than her '01 Subaru that just rolled over 
> 100,000 on the way back from Thanksgiving dinner last night?)
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial!  
> http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail
> 



------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2006 20:35:59 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Anyone on the list in Bellingham, WA?
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY110-F284AEC6E23914EBCAD7B94AC140@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Good! Then I'll ground fire the 327 (if it runs poorly, I'll pull the heads 
to redo for LPG. If it runs great, I'll sell it and see if I can get some 
heads in part trade) I just wish I knew for sure the 360 bell adapter I have 
for TH400 wasn't the same (Doh! Nevermind! The 327 starter bolts to the bell 
with 3 bolts and the 360 starter bolts with 2)
   I may redo my '73 J4000's TH400 as a switch pitch for the Rambler, UNLESS 
the info I'm getting from a buddy who's a Landrover mechanic pan's out. (I 
get to see a 4.0L bell on a O/D auto trans core next week when they pull it. 
I wonder what kind of trans it is? I know they kept with BW tcases after 
Jeep bailed)

Jim Blair, Seattle, WA '84 J10 Black Jack (getting lifted and stroked!), '73 
J4000 304/TH400/QT tow truck http://www.virtualjeep.com

AMC list subscription options link
http://www.amxfiles.com/amc-list/options.cfm

markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:

All the heads are the same. 287/327/327 4 barrel.

--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV

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------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 28
***************************************