Re: [AMC-List] Rambler Hot Rods - con't

[adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)]

" From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
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" some 'concepts' - cars & aircraft - seem good, in narrow
" applications they are - street apps. is a whole 'nuther world of
" bad road angles, oil sweat pavement and many, many, stupid
" drivers.........
" 
" front engined cars will let you know ahead of time when you're at
" a traction limit - you can kick the rear end out to correct
" perhaps - unless you're running a '56 Golden Hawk with the 352
" PACKARD 'boat-anchor' up front stuffed in the Studebaker
" 'rubber-frame'.........
" 
" with this car - the condition of coined - nose would wash out as
" the rear lifted - and swung....... while seeking traction on the
" white wall portion of the side walls........fun....!

this isn't the result of a front engine per se, but of a forward
weight bias.  control absent, the heavy end always wants to go first.

" the PORSCHE 914 mid engined was OK with the 4cyl. 2.0 yet as
" weight went up with the 914/6 GT, the Factory added 'Fender
" Flares' to accommodate the wider rims on the Performance versions
" - but they saw the writing on the wall as to their current
" technology and what could be 'death ride for cutie'.
" 
" they hung into curves until they let go - without much warning
" and not many techniques could recover control once lost - rear
" didn't swing out as much as you left the road pancaking sideways.

what you're talking about is porsche's notorious 'trailing throttle
oversteer'.  the 914 had a fairly even f/r weight balance, and its
manners were mild compared to the 911 with a heavy rearward bias,
especially as hp went up in the '70s.

there were front engined cars - lotus comes to mind - with weight
distribution comparable to the 914.  iirc the '66 dodge charger with
318 was 52/48% f/r...

" the WW-II AirCobra mid engined fighter was hated by American
" Pilots - so we sent them to the Russians....that should tell you
" something.
" 
" plane did not handle well at all beyond a ground attack aircraft.
" saw one pilot gesturing the handling to a group - yaw & pitch
" body language was terrifying to anyone who has flown.

this is the 'dart effect'.  for aircraft stability you want the center
of mass to be forward of the center of drag - but that means you have
to dial some elevator in just to maintain level flight, and that means
more drag.  the aircobra attempted to improve that and also reduce
frontal area by putting the pilot in front of the engine, but either
they misjudged their design's stability or human pilot ability to cope.

modern jet fighters would be much worse than the aircobra if they
didn't have electronic stability augmentation systems, but they are
faster and more maneuverable because of their reduced stability.

" Rear engined Formula 1 cars of the 60s were designed for that
" long wide oval track -

except f1 rarely raced on ovals...

" check the amount of 'squat' they dialed into that IRS coupled
" with humongous at that time tyre widths just to stay glued. That
" era had the most dramatic wrecks of most racing history.

that's also because speeds were dramatically increasing but safety
concerns were not.

" Current V-12 Ferraris', have a habit of lifting their front
" suspensions over small road irregularities at slower speeds and
" ending up in store fronts - European Racing - seen a few film
" clips featuring this 'Option'.

this could just as easily be a geometry problem with a suspension set
up for high speed manners.

" Moms' 356 did this to me during some spirited back road rallying
" against a TR Spitfire - tyres finally bit as I headed into the
" Apple Orchard - didn't wrap the car up that afternoon.

trailing throttle oversteer, or perhaps swing axle tuck-under...
sounds to me like the car got ahead of an inexperienced driver.

" I liked your original concept of an early Track Roadster with the
" Navarro 6 - I'm sure all that plumbing could be arranged for a
" high 'drool factor' eye candy without fogging up your goggles.

i must say the classic look has a certain appeal...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought
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