AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48
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- Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 23:47:45 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. 1980 Eagle, $200, Providence RI Area (David Borkman)
2. AMC 258 Valve Spring Tool ? (David Borkman)
3. 69 Vs 70 suspension (Dan Curtis)
4. Survivor Unrestored Cars (Mr. AMC)
5. '69 AMX front suspension change
(francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
6. Re: 69 Vs 70 suspension (Sandwich Maker)
7. Re: 69 Vs 70 suspension (Tom Jennings)
8. 401's a-plenty (russ hathaway)
9. 6 cylinder help (Richard Estermyer)
10. Re: 6 cylinder help (Mark Price)
11. Re: 401's a-plenty (Mark Price)
12. Re: 69 Vs 70 suspension (Mark Price)
13. Re: 6 cylinder help (Tom Jennings)
14. Re: 6 cylinder help (Tom Jennings)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:48:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David Borkman" <dborkman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 1980 Eagle, $200, Providence RI Area
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<4368.131.128.102.160.1156466926.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Hi All,
Saw this ad on the Providence RI CraigsList - Maybe useful to someone on
the list.
Good Luck!
Dave Borkman
Saunderstown RI
Link:
http://providence.craigslist.org/car/198379285.html
Ad Text:
Amc Eagle 4X4 wagon, 1980 - $200
Reply to: sale-198379285@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: 2006-08-24, 4:39PM EDT
Antique, 91,000 miles, straight 256c.i.d. six cylinder,Auto. Runs good,
paint is faded or missing due to lengthy storage outside. New windshield,
good tires,all wheel drive , goes thru anything , high ground clearance,
interior good , outstanding winter beater, reliable, heater/defroster work
well. Save your good car from the ravages of RI winter.
Phone calls only please. tired of being pestered by Woonsocket junkyard.
401-316-6043
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 20:51:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: "David Borkman" <dborkman@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC 258 Valve Spring Tool ?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<4372.131.128.102.160.1156467099.squirrel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Hi All,
I am gearing up to replace valve springs and seals on my 1984 258 and have
a question:
What tool have any of you used to compress the valve springs to remove the
keeper locks (with the head still on the block)? Will the lever type used
on a small block chevy work on the 258?
Thanks for any of your experience on this!
Dave Borkman
Saunderstown, RI
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 24 Aug 2006 18:04:57 -0700
From: "Dan Curtis" <d.curtis@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000b01c6c7e2$7bbb8120$0300a8c0@D14DCP61>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Well it's a bit more complicated than just the shock towers. Up through 69
AMC used trunions in place of upper ball joints so not only do you not have
an upper ball joint in your car, you also do not have the associated sub
frame and mounting points for the upper ball joint assembly and associated
sub frame pieces on your 69 AMX.
Now if you are a real whiz at cutting and welding I suppose you could change
out the shock towers but that seems like way more work than it is worth.
For my money, I would either get a trunion rebuilt kit for about $100 or buy
a new set of trunions (which are usually just rebuilt with the same parts
you can get to rebuild it with) for $350 - $500 and be done with it. Many
of the newly rebuilt trunnions now have a grease fitting in the bearing area
so you no longer have any issues with the creaky and stiff trunion bearings
of old.
Regards,
Dan Curtis
d.curtis@xxxxxxx
602-317-2018
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 05:58:28 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: [AMC-List] Survivor Unrestored Cars
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx, MacsOrphanCarGroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <13897-44EEC9C4-63@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
There was several articles in Hemmings Classsic Car Magazine under the
topic of Driveable Dreams, unrestored colectable cars and also a nice
couple of page article about the Nash Metropolitan.
"Doc"
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 04:27:33 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] '69 AMX front suspension change
To: <freebird_58@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E660B3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
The only difference for the front suspension is the shock towers. The
Mustang II type suspensions require a lot of cutting and welding due to
the way the upper arm is mounted. I've seen it done, but it's a lot of
work to do right. If you have access to a 70+ Javelin, AMX, or even
Hornet (or derivative) you may as well cut the spring tower out. The
Hornet type won't be an exact fit for the AMX, but the suspension mount
locations are correct.Cut and trim the Hornet panel then cut out what is
necessary on the Javelin. The upper part of the panel is the main
difference. If welded properly it will be as strong as a one piece
panel, but a little reinforcement along the weld seams (say a 2" strip
of metal welded in behind the seams, and along the edges) won't hurt.
Just don't get it to hot while welding -- that's the primary mistake
people make. You may know this already, but weld in 1/2" beads then skip
and inch and weld another 1/2". When complete allow the metal to cool a
bit (30 minutes is nice!), then start again. Takes three rotations, but
the metal has the needed time to cool between welds. Electric arc
welding ("stick", TIG, MIG, or flux core) brings temps up to over 1200
degrees at the weld, which sinks into the surrounding metal quickly. A
continuous bead is faster and looks better, but overheats the metal and
changes the composition in the weld area, making it brittle. NEVER rush
welding!!
But I have to ask why you want to change the suspension. You get some
built in anti-dive with the newer suspension, but that's the only real
benefit. Upper trunnions are expensive to replace, but the replacements
with poly bushings will last the life of the car with little
maintenance, unlike the original ones made with a softer, older
synthetic rubber compound. Or replace all the rubber with machined
bronze bushings (any machinist can make and install if you take them the
trunnion, upright, and trhough bolt). I've not noticed a lot of dive on
hard braking except on bone stock cars. Stiffer springs and sway bars
usually minimize dive on hard braking. Replacing the trunnions with a
poly or bronze bushed type will cost less and be less work than any of
the other two options. Even if you have a donor car sitting there and
can do all the cutting and welding yourself, there is a lot more work
involved for little gain. I understand not wanting to mess with the
trunnions again, but if done right with modern parts there will be no
need to.
Most people want to replace the trunnions because they think they're a
poor design. That's not the case. Even the original rubber design lasts
as long as ball joints, mileage and time combined. The rubber does
degrade with time even if the car had only a couple thousand miles on it
when parked, so a 36 year old low mile trunnion will need replacing if
driven whereas a ball joint would just need some fresh grease. That's
rarely the case -- most older cars have been driven and the ball joints
are due to be replaced in 20-30 years. The original criteria design for
most cars in the 60s was 10 years or 100,000 miles before worn to
replacement for "hard" parts (not belts, tires, etc.). The rubber bushed
trunnions exceed that, but the poly or bronze bushed ones will go twice
that amount easily, and won't degrade like even modern synthetic rubber
formulas eventually will. Poly will eventually degrade, but not after 10
years unless they have come into contact with some type of incompatible
lube. Modern synthetic grease shouldn't affect them. The trunnion is not
an inferior design, just a different one. The auto world went to ball
joints because they were eventually cheaper and most importantly quicker
to install. There are more parts to a trunnion suspension and it takes
more time to assemble it, but that shouldn't matter now, since it's just
one car and only needs to be done once.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 09:03:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200608251303.k7PD3u503764@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Dan Curtis" <d.curtis@xxxxxxx>
"
" Well it's a bit more complicated than just the shock towers. Up through 69
" AMC used trunions in place of upper ball joints so not only do you not have
" an upper ball joint in your car, you also do not have the associated sub
" frame and mounting points for the upper ball joint assembly and associated
" sub frame pieces on your 69 AMX.
but all that stuff is on the same inner fender panel with the shock
tower. i assumed that when he wrote 'shock tower', he meant the whole
panel.
i have heard of '69 amxes converted to '70-style front ends, so the
panel as a whole seems to be a straight fit. i would like to know if
the '68-9 amx panel is the same as the '64-9 american, which it shares
suspension with. careful eyeballing says yes. anyone have a body-
panel parts book?
yes, popping or drilling all the welds to remove the inner fender
panels would be a job, but it can and has been done.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 14:37:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608251436590.13220@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> i have heard of '69 amxes converted to '70-style front ends, so the
Why is this desirable?
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 11:05:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: russ hathaway <russh97309@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 401's a-plenty
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060825180540.57157.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I got a 401 shortblock in trade for some parts with no
obvious signs of damage. The next day I found a Jeep
with a complete 401, so now I have two of them. Any
one need a 401-$500.
I can deliver along the I-5 corridor from Salem to
Seattle. Call me at 503-589-9845.....Russ
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 18:30:12 -0400
From: "Richard Estermyer" <javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 6 cylinder help
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY106-F31735A28C961E6A6134450DD450@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Hey Group,
I working on the 80 Concord Wagon to fix the front seal, I got lost a bit.
I decided to leave off the emission stuff. They are all very clean and
working but you know...
Well I did learn that I cannot run a single belt from crank to power
steering ove water pump to alternator. No tension on the water pump!
Plus, cannot figure out where to bolt the alternator exactly that will allow
the rest of the timing cover bolts to go into place. I have and old
chiltons and the new one with the COncord and Eagles and such, but NO front
shot of the engine to figure out what I took apart.
Does anyone have a lead on where to find a good pic for the placement of all
the front stuff again. And is there an alternative to run all the parts
correctly without going back to the emission set up? It also has AC which
is not working at this time and I noticed that I would have to replace the
fan pulley with a two belt set up to run the AC later.
THANKS for any help you can give. IF you missed Greenmead Show in Livonia,
MI it was another GREAT show and job by the Great Lakes Classic AMC CLub.
This show is holding it's own and getting a bit bigger each year. A GREAT
finish to the Woodward Dream Cruise, the LARGEST one day car event in the
world!
Have a GREAT Weekend!
Richard
Richard Estermyer
6235 S. Mohawk Avenue
Ypsilanti, MI 48197
734.483.5187 evenings
734.417.9456 NEW cell
javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:39:50 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 6 cylinder help
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: Richard Estermyer <javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <26151697.1156545590285.JavaMail.root@web18>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
You will need a minimum of two belts.
one runs ,crank,p/s,w/pump.
one runs ,crank,w/pump/alternatot.
both the air pump and A/C run off of secondary belts. well on some years they do.
some years ran a small belt between a/c and alt. most all years ran the air pump from a belt between p/s and air pump.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Richard Estermyer <javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Hey Group,
> I working on the 80 Concord Wagon to fix the front seal, I got lost a bit.
>
> I decided to leave off the emission stuff. They are all very clean and
> working but you know...
>
> Well I did learn that I cannot run a single belt from crank to power
> steering ove water pump to alternator. No tension on the water pump!
>
> Plus, cannot figure out where to bolt the alternator exactly that will allow
> the rest of the timing cover bolts to go into place. I have and old
> chiltons and the new one with the COncord and Eagles and such, but NO front
> shot of the engine to figure out what I took apart.
>
> Does anyone have a lead on where to find a good pic for the placement of all
> the front stuff again. And is there an alternative to run all the parts
> correctly without going back to the emission set up? It also has AC which
> is not working at this time and I noticed that I would have to replace the
> fan pulley with a two belt set up to run the AC later.
>
> THANKS for any help you can give. IF you missed Greenmead Show in Livonia,
> MI it was another GREAT show and job by the Great Lakes Classic AMC CLub.
> This show is holding it's own and getting a bit bigger each year. A GREAT
> finish to the Woodward Dream Cruise, the LARGEST one day car event in the
> world!
>
> Have a GREAT Weekend!
> Richard
>
> Richard Estermyer
> 6235 S. Mohawk Avenue
> Ypsilanti, MI 48197
>
> 734.483.5187 evenings
> 734.417.9456 NEW cell
> javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:41:07 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401's a-plenty
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: russ hathaway <russh97309@xxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <8216107.1156545667380.JavaMail.root@web18>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
would morgantown be out of your way?
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- russ hathaway <russh97309@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I got a 401 shortblock in trade for some parts with no
> obvious signs of damage. The next day I found a Jeep
> with a complete 401, so now I have two of them. Any
> one need a 401-$500.
> I can deliver along the I-5 corridor from Salem to
> Seattle. Call me at 503-589-9845.....Russ
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 15:45:52 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 69 Vs 70 suspension
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <30239323.1156545952498.JavaMail.root@web18>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I know of at least one 64-5 American that this was done to.
IIRC the builder said ,"neveragain!"
I see no reason to do this at all. As others have said fix the original it is a solid design and works well. It would be way down on my list of things to do.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Sandwich Maker <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> " From: "Dan Curtis" <d.curtis@xxxxxxx>
> "
> " Well it's a bit more complicated than just the shock towers. Up through 69
> " AMC used trunions in place of upper ball joints so not only do you not have
> " an upper ball joint in your car, you also do not have the associated sub
> " frame and mounting points for the upper ball joint assembly and associated
> " sub frame pieces on your 69 AMX.
>
> but all that stuff is on the same inner fender panel with the shock
> tower. i assumed that when he wrote 'shock tower', he meant the whole
> panel.
>
> i have heard of '69 amxes converted to '70-style front ends, so the
> panel as a whole seems to be a straight fit. i would like to know if
> the '68-9 amx panel is the same as the '64-9 american, which it shares
> suspension with. careful eyeballing says yes. anyone have a body-
> panel parts book?
>
> yes, popping or drilling all the welds to remove the inner fender
> panels would be a job, but it can and has been done.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay the genius nature
> internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:45:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 6 cylinder help
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608251644410.13220@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Richard Estermyer wrote:
> Does anyone have a lead on where to find a good pic for the placement of all
> the front stuff again. And is there an alternative to run all the parts
> correctly without going back to the emission set up? It also has AC which
> is not working at this time and I noticed that I would have to replace the
> fan pulley with a two belt set up to run the AC later.
http://wps.com/AMC/1970-AMC-Hornet/Apr2005.html
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Fri, 25 Aug 2006 16:47:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 6 cylinder help
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608251645110.13220@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Fri, 25 Aug 2006, Richard Estermyer wrote:
oops forgot text
scroll down a bit. It's an 83 engine in a 70 car. Belts are
loose, but in place. There's a big pile of wacky brackets on
the left, but it does go together.
I had to pull all the parts together myself, but I chose a belt
configuration from some TSM (77?) that shows all the routing
and level options for the various car/option combination. I
think I have 77 Hornet config. There are many options, but you
have to have the right combo of waterpump pulleys and such.
The factory does a good job of this; why change it? (I got my
motor as a long block, no accessories, and no original to copy.)
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 48
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