AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 32
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 32
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- Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 12:00:02 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Transmission Interchange, INTO 1965 Rambler (Mike Kindle)
2. ONE MONTH TO GO! (namdra@xxxxxxxx)
3. Front suspension reconstruction (KENT ANDERSON)
4. Re: Front suspension reconstruction (Ken Ames)
5. Re: air cooled trannys (Ken Ames)
6. Re: FLAmbo an Ambo (Peter Marano)
7. Re: Performer for my Matador. (Todd Tomason)
8. Re: Transmission Interchange, INTO 1965 Rambler (Matt Haas)
9. B/W auto trans shifting odd (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
10. flaired drum question (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
11. Front suspension reconstruction
(francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
12. Re: Front suspension reconstruction (Tom Jennings)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 16:11:07 -0700
From: "Mike Kindle" <mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Transmission Interchange, INTO 1965 Rambler
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY113-F2397D4A37CB1199E332638FC4C0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
The 196.5 engine I don't know anything about. On the 65-232 the difference
is the 65 BWM35 has a cable modulator: an adjustable cable attached to the
throttle at the carb runs back to the trans and modulates the shift
pressure, and the 69's had a vacuum modulator, a metal tube which simply
attached to a fitting on the intake manifold runs back to the transmission
modulating the shift pressure.
If the 196.5 used the BW M35, it probably also used a cable modulation
system like the other 65's.
But then there is also the torque tube driveshaft vs standard driveshaft
issue.
Mike
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:17:27 -0500
From: namdra@xxxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] ONE MONTH TO GO!
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060816.181729.-16257017.0.NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
In one month the main day of the '06 AMC NATIONALS, Sep.14-16, 2006 at
Cordova Dragway Park, Cordova, IL, will be held. The event is sponsored
by NAMDRA and its members and sponsors.
The event will consist of drag racing, a car show, swap meet and car
corral for all the AMC family and AMC-Jeeps. There will be 3 brackets of
AMC racing, an AMC ELIMINATOR race and an AMC Gamblers race. The car show
will have 35 classes with plenty of 1st., 2nd. & 3rd. place awards, plus
a "Best of Show" and "Participants Choice" award and others. Plus there
will be a free picnic and an awards program. Plus on Friday, the Hot Rod
Magazine will be ending their Hot Rod Power Tour at Cordova Dragway Park.
And on Friday evening there will be grudge racing, gamblers race & trophy
racing for all brands & on Saturday night, Cordova Dragway Park will hold
there regular bracket program. What more could you ask for?
Be there and enjoy the event!!!
Jock Jocewicz - President/Editor NAMDRA NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx
8537 Antioch Rd., Salem, WI 53168 (262) 843-4326
JOIN NAMDRA, the best AMC club around!!!
'06 AMC NATIONALS - SEP. 14-16, 2006 - CORDOVA DRAGWAY PARK, CORDOVA, IL
AMO#19, NAMDRA#46, AMCRC#974, NHRA#41915, IHRA#6766
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 19:32:36 -0400
From: "KENT ANDERSON" <65marlin327@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Front suspension reconstruction
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <001801c6c18c$44dd16c0$6400a8c0@SONY>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
In the process of reassembling the front suspension on my Typhoon, I'm having a serious alinging problem with the parts. The lower control arms aren't ligning up properly, and it's putting WAY too much pressure on the rest of the parts. I've gone "by the book" all the way on this (being a total rookie). The stuff LOOKS great! But, when trying to bolt the front strut rod to the lower control arm, everything is tweeking way out of proportion. In fact, things got pretty ugly for a while, and I had to cut a bolt off the control arm. Do you know how HARD it is to cut through a Grade 8 bolt?????
If someone has an idea, or suggestion, please pass it on, so I can hang some wheels on this thing before the next millenium!
Thanks, Kenny
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:34:54 -0600
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Front suspension reconstruction
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1155774894.44e3b9ae114a6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The angles and such on the strut rod are set so that there is little/no stress
on the lower arm when the weight of the car is on the suspension. When the car
is in the air the suspension drops and wants to twist the lower arm. I suspect
that is where your trouble is.
Ken Ames
39Master85w.partscar,67Marlin,68AMX,70Machine,73Matador2drht,73Hornet4dsd,
73-74-75-76GremlinXs,75PacerX,76Hornet2dsd,77Matadorcpe,2-77AMXs,78AMX,
78Gremlin,78GremlinGT,79Concordhb,79PacerDL8,2-79AMXs,2-80AMXs,
2-80SpiritDL,80Eagle4dsdn,2-81SX4s,81SpiritGT,81Concord4dsd,82Eaglesw,
2-85Eaglesw,80J20,85J10,89Sentra4dsd (38)
AMCA = http://clubs.hemmings.com/amcalberta/
Quoting KENT ANDERSON <65marlin327@xxxxxxxxxxx>:
> In the process of reassembling the front suspension on my Typhoon, I'm having
> a serious alinging problem with the parts. The lower control arms aren't
> ligning up properly, and it's putting WAY too much pressure on the rest of
> the parts. I've gone "by the book" all the way on this (being a total
> rookie). The stuff LOOKS great! But, when trying to bolt the front strut
> rod to the lower control arm, everything is tweeking way out of proportion.
> In fact, things got pretty ugly for a while, and I had to cut a bolt off the
> control arm. Do you know how HARD it is to cut through a Grade 8 bolt?????
>
> If someone has an idea, or suggestion, please pass it on, so I can hang some
> wheels on this thing before the next millenium!
>
> Thanks, Kenny
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 18:37:17 -0600
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] air cooled trannys
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1155775037.44e3ba3da9537@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
The pressure in the pan should be near atmospheric as the vent/fill tube is
'open' to the air. A bilge pump may not be able to run full time like you'd need
for a cooler.
Ken
Quoting russ hathaway <russh97309@xxxxxxxxx>:
> How much pressure would be lost if two fittings were
> installed in the pan? Sealing the fittings would be
> easy, running the lines with an external filter a
> piece of cake and I am thinking of a marine sump pump
> to circulate things. Aren't those pumps adjustable?
> Hydraulic fluid won't hurt them, right?
> As if I don't have enough to do, now you guys got me
> thinking of tearing up a perfectly good running
> American. THANKS A LOT......Russ
>
> __________________________________________________
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>
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>
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 20:32:37 -0500
From: Peter Marano <PMarano@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] FLAmbo an Ambo
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <44E3C735.20303@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
>" so........ 1978 Ambo spindles won't bolt into a '55 Ambo ?>
>
>i don't actually know; my expertise stops at the early '60s. i
>wouldn't be a bit surprised if they fit though.
>________________________________________________________________________
>
>My 1960 Ambassador had a spindle with the same bolt pattern, but the mounting bosses had two different heights. The swap would be possible but it would require shims or mods to the spindle.
>
>
Peter Marano
Kenosha WI
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:13:24 -0500
From: Todd Tomason <jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Performer for my Matador.
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200608162113.25186.jayscore@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Matt,
Ditto what Jim said. Many people eliminate the EGR valve. Take a look at the
Edelbrock 1406. 600 cfm and electric choke. I would also recommend putting
a spacer between the intake and the carb. My son had trouble on his Matador
with the carb getting too hot after you shut it off. Edelbrock actually
makes some nice wooden spacers.
Todd
On Wednesday 16 August 2006 17:10, Jim Shadwick wrote:
> Matt
>
> I think the EGR thing will depend on where you live.....do you need it
> to pass the smog check....if not I would go
> for one with out...as for a carb I am partial to Edelbrock's for street
> use and racing.....I have a Performer intake and
> Edelbrock 600 on the 360 in my Jeep GW.....works great....best thing I
> have done for it.........
>
> Jim
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 22:29:32 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Transmission Interchange, INTO 1965 Rambler
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060816222642.0293ddd8@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
1967 uses vacuum as well and there's no torque tube to deal with on an
American. There are the issues of the water pump and radiator. You need a
short water pump (like from a 74 or older CJ-5 with a 232) and the radiator
needs to be pushed forward for clearance. If you have A/C now, there's no
room for it with a 232.
Matt
At 04:11 PM 8/16/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>The 196.5 engine I don't know anything about. On the 65-232 the difference
>is the 65 BWM35 has a cable modulator: an adjustable cable attached to the
>throttle at the carb runs back to the trans and modulates the shift
>pressure, and the 69's had a vacuum modulator, a metal tube which simply
>attached to a fitting on the intake manifold runs back to the transmission
>modulating the shift pressure.
>If the 196.5 used the BW M35, it probably also used a cable modulation
>system like the other 65's.
>But then there is also the torque tube driveshaft vs standard driveshaft
>issue.
>Mike
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 03:23:59 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] B/W auto trans shifting odd
To: <jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx>, <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E66091@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jay, it sounds like the filter screeen (I don't think those use a
replaceable filter) just need cleaning. The BW has 3-4 tubes that snap
in across the valve body also. Check them and make sure they are seated
properly -- one could be loose -- when you pull the pan to clean the
filter. Soak the filter in some solvent (mineral spirits or paint
thinner) then blow out with air pressure. If that doesn't do the trick
take it in for a "tune-up". If you have a TSM, take that with the car to
the trans shop. Ask the shop if they are familiar with Ford FMX
transmissions since they are basically a Ford version of the BW. I'd get
the bands adjusted and the above done. You might as well call around and
see what the tune-up would cost before you do anything. One band is easy
to adjust, the other hard to get to and requires a special tool. Check a
TSM to find out. If you don't hve a TSM, get someone to copy the pages
on band adjustments for you. The shop may not have the specs on that old
a trans, better to have them with you and show them the page.
-----------------------------
Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 12:38 PM
From: Joe Gray <jgray_55@xxxxxxxxx>
The B/W trans in my 1967 290 Ambassador has developed
an odd issue. NOT all the time,but alot after warming
up it skips 2nd gear on upshift? One time you pull
away from a stop it upshifts 1,2,3 just fine.Does not
slip. Next time you leave a stop it skips 2nd gear?
I'm not talking fast acceleration. Just normal
driving. I tried,and if i do accelerate it fasyer it
usually does not miss 2nd gear?It was rebuilt before i
bought the car . It's been 10 years or so since
rebuilt. Only 5-6000 miles on the build. Nice clean
red fluid. Fluid level shows fine on the dipstick.Any
ideas? I drive it quite often,when possible during the
summer. Email me directly also if you would.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 03:35:41 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] flaired drum question
To: <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: MSzczodrowski@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E66092@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Mark may find that it might be possible to use front drums on the rear.
The front drums are on a steel hub. Knock or press the studs out, then
knock/press the hub off. The studs are the main thing holding the drum
on, but it's a tight fit on the hub center also. The center hole may not
be the right size for the rear axle though. A bigger problem is that the
rear brakes are usually narrower than the front if they are the same
diameter. The rears are usually smaller diameter also. So they likely
won't interchange on the same car.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 2006 04:10:52 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Front suspension reconstruction
To: <65marlin327@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E66094@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Kent, make sure the strut rod is torqued one the bracket properly. If
you used the one piece strut rod bushing, the back should be almost
crushed. They usually split up and don't last long because they are old
stock -- been on the shelf for several year. There's a torque rating
they should be tightened to, I don't have a book handy in Afghanistan!
If you're using the two piece type strut rod bushing, that's the
problem. The front bushing is 3/4" to thick IIRC. If you cut the rubber
down, it will weaken it and the washer in front will push through while
driving. There are two ways to fix this. The easiest is to get ONE
polyurethane strut rod bushing set. Cut the bushing down to fit in front
and use it on the front. Use the back half for the fornt of the other
side (front and rear halves are the same), and use the rubber halves for
the back. This maintains flexibilitiy and the poly bushings are strong
enough to not push through like the rubber. You will feel more jars when
hitting pot holes and such though.
The other fix is a lot more involved. Get a pair of Concord/Spirit or
other 70 or later AMC strut rods. These have adjustable ends (stops are
adjustable -- ends are threaded 5-6"). Remove the original strut rods
and cut them in half. Lay the bushing half beside one of the adjustable
rods and cut that much off the adjustable. Weld the two together. I did
it myself, but I was a welding instructor for a couple years. If you
don't know how to weld the rod ends together take them to a welding shop
after cutting and tell them you need them solid and straight. Once
welded, grind down smooth yourself and paint. No one will be able to
tell without very close inspection (one of the rods is perfectly round,
the other has some slight flats on it). No more bushing problems!
One more thing -- I found that with the body supported and the
suspension hanging the strut rod brakets (with rods attached) can be
hard to install. Seems I could get two bolts in easy enough, but the
third was almost impossible. I put a floor jack under the suspension arm
and jacked that up a bit (or put the car on the ground -- it won't go
anywhere!) and the third bolt went in much easier.
-------------------
Date: Wednesday, August 16, 2006 06:32 PM
From: KENT ANDERSON <65marlin327@xxxxxxxxxxx>
In the process of reassembling the front suspension on my Typhoon, I'm
having a
serious alinging problem with the parts. The lower control arms aren't
ligning
up properly, and it's putting WAY too much pressure on the rest of the
parts.
I've gone "by the book" all the way on this (being a total rookie). The
stuff
LOOKS great! But, when trying to bolt the front strut rod to the lower
control
arm, everything is tweeking way out of proportion. In fact, things got
pretty
ugly for a while, and I had to cut a bolt off the control arm. Do you
know how
HARD it is to cut through a Grade 8 bolt?????
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2006 23:17:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Front suspension reconstruction
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608162313580.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 16 Aug 2006, KENT ANDERSON wrote:
> In the process of reassembling the front suspension on my Typhoon, I'm having a serious alinging problem with the parts. The lower control arms aren't ligning up properly, and it's putting WAY too much pressure on the rest of the parts. I've gone "by the book" all the way on this (being a total rookie). The stuff LOOKS great! But, when trying to bolt the front strut rod to the lower control arm, everything is tweeking way out of proportion. In fact, things got pretty ugly for a while, and I had to cut a bolt off the control arm. Do you know how HARD it is to cut through a Grade 8 bolt?????
>
> If someone has an idea, or suggestion, please pass it on, so I can hang some wheels on this thing before the next millenium!
If you lift the assembled suspension up to approximately it's
actual ride height, the strut rod will stop pressing (or is it
pulling) so much on the lower control arm.
I recall freaking out over this, until I realized I was trying
to put it together with the suspension sagging against the
lower stops, spring removed. With the lower arm all the way down,
the arc the strut rod describes keeps it from aligning.
Lift the lower control arm up to approximately level and you
can get the two strut rod bolts into the lower arm.
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 32
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