AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 32

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Today's Topics:

   1. 2006 - 55 = 1968 (Mahoney, John)
   2. Re: Not mine   AMC Concorde! 50K original miles! (amc@xxxxxxxxxxx)
   3. report from the desert (eddie walker)
   4. Fw: AMC Trannys: 727s, OD, a518 & various ??'s (Eddie Stakes)
   5. Re: T5 comments (Jim Boone)
   6. 3 sp transmission wanted (Jim Boone)
   7. someone wanted a v8 3 spd (d stohler)
   8. Re: my 62 classic project (keeping a torque tube)
      (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
   9. Re: T5 comments (hard time posting)
      (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
  10. Quality Aftermarket Parts (Mr. AMC)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 17:19:14 -0400
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 2006 - 55 = 1968
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A02202BCD@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

>>
AFIK, the AMC instruments in the 70s were King-Seeley (sp?) and should be repairable by any of the instrument repair places that advertise in say, Hemmings Motor News.
<<

Way far back when Packard was king, King-Seeley supplied simple stuff

http://www.classicandexotic.com/catalog/kingseeley/components.htm

and by the mid '30s, as a supplier of gauges, speedos, and such to GM, Ford, Chrysler, etc., K-S was Ann Arbor's biggest industrial employer, but, while K-S did supply Nash-AMC into the '70s, when the last new dashes were phased in, Ford may have made some instruments for them, also --- '74, '75, and '77/'78 up.

(Why not check it out and put some permanent info online somewhere?)

>>
afaik since they introed the 472 they've had only one caddy v8 [472,
500, 425, 368], and that was a redesign of the previous 390/429.
<<

No, it wasn't.  GM's leap beyond the 440 and 462 (Chrysler and Lincoln) for 1968 was an *all-new* engine.  The 390's 4.00 x 3.875 had been bored and stroked (4.13 x 4.00) in '64, but [80-pound heavier] 472 was 4.30 x 4.06.  The '70 500 was a 472 stroked to 4.30 that, until 505 V-10 Viper debuted in '03, remained modern US regular production displacement king.  The 472, lightened (by 100-pounds) and lessened (4.08 x 4.06 = 425; 3.80 x 4.06 = 368), became the L33, L35, and L61.

Thereafter, it's a different story; read it on your own.  Caddy, unlike AMC, where words seem to be disparaged and in-depth writings on history seem to be scorned, seems to welcome accurate info and has lots of it online.

>>
Entertainment Weekly just ranked on their website the "top 10 Hollywood car chases ever," and the AMC chase from "The Man With the Golden Gun" came in at number 4!
<<

If -5- is a "4" by AMC count (which is not to rake anyone over the coals or throw anyone on a hot grill: everyone makes an occasional -unintentional- typo), scratch that displacement info above.  Different strokes for different strokes: "boring" and -boring- mean different things when judged by different Marks.

5-6/06 MTC: '74 AMC Ambassador Brougham station wagon at 100 mph (p. 26) and "AMC Ambassador" in p. 77 ad.  What is the point of collecting cars?  He says:
"I have it; you don't.  Period."  (I'm just quoting what you can read...)

7/06 HR: Dent repair (pp. 104-114; you asked...) plus a part of a Nash Met (the 384 part is a part of an old Olds...) on p. 24.

7/06 CC: '68 + etc. [401 + 727 + 3.73 + M20 + more] "Banarama" AMX is on p. 16.  It's yellow.  It's not mellow.  It's still hot.

Newest thinking: more from less.  Higher power from lower displacement. Klaus Borgmann, Senior VP, Powertrain Development, of a powerhouse car company says that (except for ultra high-performance tuner [Motorsport] models...), technology, not size will be his new thing.  The same terrible twins (emissions and economy) that tortured power brokers way far back in the AMC day are back in force, to force his ultimate driving machines into battle with the same forces that ultimately forced the final failure of American Motors.  (The finale of American motors is still being acted out onstage...)

In this world of 2.5L I-4 250-hp car-like SUVs, where old leaders race to stay one step ahead in technology, one peg up in MRSP acceptability, one leg above in desirability, one point beyond in marketability, and one dollar/euro/yen/won/etc. from collapse in profitability, he knows that 9.3L/1000km 3.0L TDI V-6s versus 11.9L/1000 [14% less torquey] V-8s point the way to tomorrow.  So he, along with all the new car world, must continue seeking new or better solutions.

And he knows that the Cadillac 452

http://tinyurl.com/z6j8e

(sorry, cube carnivores, now sold,

http://tinyurl.com/jkwus

but you can buy a sporty '31 V-12

http://tinyurl.com/g2cap

that could go faster on less gas...)

or 829 answers are dream cars.  Or car dreams.  Your decision.

http://www.pevomuc.de/100-Cadillac/sixteen/Cadillac-16-2.html 

http://tinyurl.com/ghlbx

(It just had to be bigger than the Pierce-Arrow 824, you see...)

http://mclellansautomotive.com/photos/B28378-3.jpg

Size used to matter.  Info used to be valued.  How it all has changed.

Do you know that Teague's first "AMX concept" drawing is 55 years old?

Unless 6/51 is counted up differently in the strange world of old AMC.

       



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 18:35:15 -0400
From: <amc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Not mine   AMC Concorde! 50K original miles!
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<!~!UENERkVCMDkAAQACAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgAAAAAAAAA/ds8rFqdvkqfe+Bz65gs6sKAAAAQAAAAu6nCjERIkUqQbNBEicsG8QEAAAAA@xxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1250"

 Not mine.
Call the number on the web page.
http://boston.craigslist.org/car/171225335.html

Rick


-- 
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.8.4/364 - Release Date: 6/14/2006
 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 16:26:12 -0700 (PDT)
From: eddie walker <moparedwalker@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] report from the desert
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060614232612.24864.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Sure sounds like a timing chain broke....

------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 19:40:56 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Fw: AMC Trannys: 727s, OD, a518 & various ??'s
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: jd.greenplate@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <031a01c69015$5c0c9800$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Josh below is new to AMC, so welcome to AMC. He has a number of questions 
about transmissions, hopefully some of you that are experienced in this 
field can help him out, please feel free to reply and also copy your reply 
to Josh who would appreciate it although he may be joining here and also 
will be reading this list. Thanks to all who might reply.
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*email is currently HEAVY
Call if important*
www.planethoustonamx.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: <jd.greenplate@xxxxxxx>
To: <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, June 08, 2006 8:05 PM
Subject: AMC Trannys


> Eddie,
> I'm 15 and am restoring a 72 AMX as my first car.  I have a few questions 
> regarding transmissions. First, does any 2wd chrysler 727 bolt to my AMC 
> 360? I believe that the gear reduction starter on a chrysler is on the 
> drivers side, and has the solinoid built in, whereas an AMC uses a ford 
> starter on the passeger side with the solinoid in the engine compartment, 
> correct? Do I need a 727 from a Jeep or AMC, or can a chrysler work? If 
> using a chrysler transmission, are the bellhousing bolts the same, and if 
> so is a chrysler starter needed. Is there a ford starter that will work, 
> or can one be modified?  Also, have you ever seen an a518 in an AMC. In 
> Hemmings Muscle Machines, it says that this 4 speed OD, based off of the 
> 727, bolts to any 72-78 AMC, and I'm sure this tranny has a drivers side 
> starter. If I could, I would prefer the a518 due to $3.00 gas, though I 
> can get a 30,000 mile 727 at reasonable cost. I am willing and able to 
> modify slightly if needed, as I have access to a gar
> age. If either works what would you recommend?
> Thanks
> Josh Greenplate
> 



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 21:12:14 -0400
From: "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T5 comments
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY116-F19043EBBDDBDABBCC35A67AC820@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

I've been having a heck of a time posting from the website with nothing 
getting through unless I email Frank first and have him do it for me.  I'm 
trying a different way this time, hopefully will work...

Something I'd like to add to this;  As some of you may know, I have a '69 
American with a '70 390.  It had a T10 in it when I bought the car, but I 
like OD transmissions, and got a deal on a complete SVO T5 setup that came 
out of a Spirit-bellhousing to driveshaft.

Mark is right about the torque ratings afaik.  World Class doesn't always 
mean higher torque rating.  Mine being the SVO version is rated at 330 or 
335 (I've seen both listed for my part #).  Either way, it's the strongest 
one they make to my knowledge.  I've only used this car on the street, but 
it's held up quite well and has been a great improvement.

My 390 came out of an AMX, is basically stock shortblock with R4B, 
headers/flowmasters, roller rockers, and unknown lumpy cam.  Nothing too 
wild for power output being my point (although plenty to smolder tires and 
provide brisk acceleration)

I had changed the rearend gears to 3.15 (from 3.54) when I had the T10.  
With the T5, there's not enough gear for OD until 70+ IMO.  I've heard 
repeatedly that 1st would be too short if I went back to the 3.54's, but I 
don't think so from "seat of the pants".  Low gear stretches quite well, and 
I'd rather be a little short there than long in 5th.

I'm not sure if I have the 2.95 or 3.35 1st, but OD is .68 iirc.

It would be nice to go with the HD Tremec unit, but complete setups (new) 
are probably in the $3K+ range by the time you get everything.  I have 
~$1100 into mine total.  The trans was near new (7k miles I was told, and 
believe from feel/looks).

Jim Boone
Mims, FL

>From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T-5 comments

>I'm sorry and don't want to bash you, but this info is incorrect.
>The Z-code and Cobra trans has the high rating, not all world class 
>transmissions. You have to be careful of what you get, the newer the trans 
>the higher the rating up unitl the 93 Cobra trans and or Z-code aftermarket 
>Motosport version.
>   World class is a term designating the bearing upgrades and improved 
>shift feel, IIRC the early "world class" trans does not have a much higher 
>torque rating then the "non world class". That's why I don't care that the 
>stuff I have to put together the 2.95 geared trans for behine my 4.0L is 
>non world class.

>---- John Elle <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> > The world class unit is rated around 325 to 300 ft lbs of torque. This
> > compares to the about 400 ft lbs of torque that a T-10 is rated at. This
> > is a significant increase over the lighter duty units used by Ford and
> > on the Jeep and AMC products.




------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 22:29:17 -0400
From: "Jim Boone" <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 3 sp transmission wanted
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY116-F385D8BC385936EFBA15975AC820@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

OK, now that I've seen my last post online, I know this route works.  I had 
tried to post this a day or so ago and it never made it.

I have a stock-rebuilt '73 360 that I want to put into my '67 Rebel Station 
Wagon.  Hate to do it in a way as the stock 232 runs really well and I get 
~22mpg out of it.  But, I need more power as I'd like to have it tow-capable 
for my other car (the '69 American mentioned in the T5 post).

I've been tossing around different transmission options.  I have both a 727 
and two 998's, but truth be told, I really dislike auto's.  Just a personal 
preference.

I was thinking if I could find a V8 capable 3 sp that I could put behind 
that 360, and hook it up to my 3-on-the-tree somehow.  I have two sets of 
the stock t96 linkage.

If someone has a good used trans out there, I'm interested.  I'd need the 
complete setup, bellhousing to yoke.  My crossmember would probably work, 
will have to see.  If it came out of a column shift car, the linkage would 
be nice, too.

I may still go with one of the automatics, and would probably be a smarter 
choice, but figured it wouldn't hurt to ask about this other way.

Jim Boone
Mims, FL




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 14 Jun 2006 20:01:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] someone wanted a v8 3 spd
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060615030127.89700.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

i didnt catch the name, but i saw someone was wanting a 3 spd that will hold up to a v8. i have a t86 3 speed with overdrive. it is in great shape. i have pics of the internal gears and all of it. i just bought it off of ebay, and decided to go with a t5 instead. it cost me $443 shipped to my house. im not sure if its really worth that much. it is a fresh rebuild and never used since rebuilt. the overdrive has the torque tube mount on it. it was the factory option for the v8 ramblers is what i have been able to find. i have been told that my stock t96 shift linkage would work so i imagine yours would also. i do not have a bellhousing or anything else. if you are interested let me know. das24rules@xxxxxxxxx
   
  dave stohler
  camp taji iraq

 __________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 03:53:06 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project (keeping a torque tube)
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F9C@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Well, an electronic speedo will work off a magnetic pickup. Or Corvairs
used a mechanical speedo driven off the front wheel, that might be
adaptable. But this is a LOT of work to keep the torque tube. It can be
done, with the hardest part being the flange on the transmission itself.
But I don't really think it's worth the trouble. A "truck arms"
suspension would work like a torque tube with an open driveshaft and
handle well. Just make a new trans crossmember to mount the arms and
bolt solid to the body instead of through rubber mounts. There are to
many alternative rear axles out there to go through so much trouble to
keep the torque tube when you're switching to a newer trans anyway. 

------------------------------------------
Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 12:46 PM
From: markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx
This is true and we are talking a 1962 vintage car here, so you could go
to a
front wheel driven speedo. I'm not so sure on the particulars of getting
one to 
work, but I know it has been done. You could also get an electronic
speed
sensor into your adapter pretty easily.




------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 04:27:02 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] T5 comments (hard time posting)
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F9E@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

When you post from the AMX-Files web site it does not always go through
immediately. This has to do both with Mailman's (the new software)
security features and the way Jim manipulates the addresses so that they
pass through as from the sender and not the AMX-Files. There is some
address manipulation that goes on as a message traverses the internet
that changes things by the time it gets to the list server. Remember,
although the Internet seems seamless, it isn't! Your message gets passed
through many servers before it reaches its destination, and all add
something to the address header. So some messages end up getting held in
a que because the address doesn't look right until Tom or I release
them. We try to do this daily, but don't always have time. Sometimes
it's 2-3 days before the message is released, though that has been rare.


One thing is certain -- if you post from your e-mail program the message
will go through in a short time 99% of the time. As I said, the problem
has to do with the way the AMX-Files manipulates the addresses. If we
dropped half Mailman's security features messages would go through all
the time, but then we'd have a lot of SPAM and other unwanted messages
coming through as well. That would clutter the list and increase our
workload trying to keep the list safe, so that's not going to happen! 


-----------------------------
Date: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 08:12 PM
From: Jim Boone <fljab@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
I've been having a heck of a time posting from the website with nothing
getting through unless I email Frank first and have him do it for me.
I'm
trying a different way this time, hopefully will work...




------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Thu, 15 Jun 2006 07:29:51 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: [AMC-List] Quality Aftermarket Parts
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx, amc_club_of_socal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
	BaadAssGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, MacsOrphanCarGroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <26007-449144AF-231@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII

I unpacked my box of goodies from Jeggs yesterday and was very pleased
with the quality of the parts. I had not bought these kind of parts in
25 years. The B&M tranny oil cooler was a really nice top quality modern
looking piece over the one I bought from them over 25 years ago and real
easy to make brackets and mount. I am not using the wire tie mounting
method as I don't want to have a problem with a 33 year old A/C
condenser. The 8" electrical B&M cooling fan was of equal quality and
also easy to make brackets for and mount. The only problem is to get the
last bolt out of the 4 on each item I have to remove the front bumper
and rubber filler. :-( But due to careful measuring and checking sizes
they fit fine with no interference with the grill. With the A/C
condenser in front of the radiator clearance is really tight. The 2
quart larger aluminum TCI tranny oil also appears to be a quality piece
with a filter extension and a very large cleanable filter. The last
piece is a billet radiator over flow tank, also a nice piece. I bought
the unpolished natural finished one over the polished one and saved 20$.
A little Mothers Aluminum & Mag wheel polish and an hour of my time and
it will be polished. Being disabled and not working I have time for
things like this. Besides the total bill for all the parts was 364.94$
so 20$ saved is 20$. I lost the phone no# for the bumper plating shop my
friend gave me 3-4 months back and finally got it again. If I painted
the bumpers to match the car there would just be toooo much orange with
the AMX flairs and rear window louver painted to match the body so I
will stay with the chrome bumpers. I can't wait to get the fan and oil
cooler in so I can finally install my restored grill and headlight
doors. All of this should be done by monday. 
"Doc"



------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 32
***************************************