AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 47

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Today's Topics:

   1. Spark Plugs (Paul Baker)
   2. Re: Innovation & The Rambler Mentality (Jock J Jocewicz)
   3. response to Spark Plug question (Dan Curtis)
   4. Fw: Rear axel flange WANTED (Eddie Stakes)
   5. Re: my 62 classic project (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
   6. Re: response to Spark Plug question (Tom Jennings)
   7.  Frank S. Old Rambler on TV (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
   8. AMC List Dues (Brien Tourville)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 16:41:56 -0700
From: "Paul Baker" <paulbaker707@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Spark Plugs
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY106-F26AC12514E1C12CA7DC0B782A50@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format="flowed"


   Just wondering if any of you have any suggestions regarding spark
   plugs. I have a 68 Jav 343 C.U.  bored 30 over. I wanted to try a
   different plug and was curious about these Bosch Platinum Plus 4 spark
   plugs with the four electrodes. Are they any good ? They sure cost a
   whole lot more money than regular plugs . If the cost is just for
   longevity rather than extra performance I will stay with a cheaper
   plug.. Thanks Paul Baker    Powell River Canada
   [1]paulbaker707@xxxxxxx
     _________________________________________________________________

   Don't just Search. Find! [2]Try MSN Search: Fast. Clear. Easy.

References

   1. mailto:paulbaker707@xxxxxxx
   2. http://g.msn.com/8HMAENCA/2755??PS=47575


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 23:13:32 -0500
From: Jock J Jocewicz <namdra@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Innovation & The Rambler Mentality
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060521.231332.-16395449.0.NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Doc,
  I hope you used high temperature paint on your grill. You wouldn't want
paint to adhere to your brats, steaks, corn on the cob, etc,

On Sun, 21 May 2006 18:01:13 -0400 AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
writes:
> The flat black is painted on the grill, the areas to be painted 
> silver
> are sanded and cleaned with water. Lint from the rag use to clean 
> it
> left some lint on it. Being disabled and a model builder I took
> different sizes of plastic model tubing to fit the air hose in my
> nebulizer and made a removable low volume high pressure air nozzle 
> to
> blow the dust and fibers off the grill to clean it. Tomorrow it is
> cleaning with prepsol and the taping start's. :-) Being in the 
> advance
> stages of emphazima the wife and my Dr's would have a fit if they 
> knew
> half of what I do. Quality of life is worth more than longevity. My 
> old
> VA Dr. of 5 years understands that.  Now I have to educate  a new 
> one.
> :-(
> "Doc"
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> 
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
> 
> 


Jock Jocewicz - President/Editor NAMDRA     NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx
8537 Antioch Rd., Salem, WI 53168 (262) 843-4326
          JOIN NAMDRA, the best AMC club around!!!
'06 AMC NATIONALS - SEP. 14-16, 2006 - CORDOVA DRAGWAY PARK, CORDOVA, IL
AMO#19, NAMDRA#46, AMCRC#974,  NHRA#41915, IHRA#6766


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 21:22:28 -0700
From: "Dan Curtis" <d.curtis@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] response to Spark Plug question
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000701c67d57$56673930$0400a8c0@D14DCP61>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Interesting question about the spark plugs. Back in the early 90s I used the 
original style Bosch Platinum plugs that were essentially a center fire type 
of plug.  They were completely overwhelmed by the big squirt when my 780 
Holley kicked in the secondaries.  At about 4500 RPM the car would start 
missing and backfiring until I took my foot off the throttle.  It only 
happened two or three times before I determined that the plugs were the 
problem and replaced them with an appropriate set of N12YC Champion plugs 
which resulted in the car running fine again.  Clearly these original Bosch 
platinum plugs were designed for the relatively low and very controlled fuel 
spray from modern fuel injection rather than a high CFM four barrel.

Now to your question regarding the Bosch 4 tip plugs, you need to keep in 
mind that an electrode can only arc to any one of the four prongs on a given 
cycle from the ignition.  Theoretically, because there are four prongs and 
only one of them can be the recipient of the arc at a time, they should last 
four times as long although there are so many other factors that affect the 
longevity of the plug I doubt that you would ever realize a four fold 
increase in the life of those very expensive plugs. The real benefit of 
today's modern plugs is the addition of platinum in the electrode due to its 
better conduction capacity than the other metals that were previously used 
in plugs of the past.

With today's unleaded fuels, the advent of readily available, low cost 
electronic upgrade kits to replace distributor points, almost any plug will 
last much longer than when your car's 343 engine was new.  I am sure the 
expensive Bosch plugs will work fine in your car.  I am just not sure you 
will effectively get any better results than everyday $1.99 plugs from 
Champion or Autolite.

Rather than go for the over price plugs, spend your extra money on the 
electronic ignition upgrade kit for your distributor, a new vacuum advance 
and new bearing and bushings for the distributor if you have not done so 
already.  By getting rid of the points, which do indeed start to run poorly 
within a year or 7,500 or 10,000 miles, and rebuilding the distributor you 
will eliminate a whole bunch of issue surrounding how your car runs both hot 
and cold (another old street racer trick is to get lighter weight springs so 
you will get faster centrifugal advance from the distributor at lower RPM). 
Also, if again you also have not done so already, be sure to get a good set 
of 7 or 8MM high energy spark plug wires with silicone rather than rubber 
insulator around the core.  The silicone based plug wires are not prone to 
insulator breakdown from heat and never have arcing problems in the rain 
like the old rubber based plug wires did.

One other thing to be on the lookout for is the coil tower being cracked 
which will also cause arcing to the distributor side of the coil and create 
a very poor running engine if any moisture is on the top of the coil.  A new 
coil cost about $25-30 for a standard replacement.  You can also go for a 
higher output coil if you have the electronic distributor upgrade and the 
newer silicone based wires and increase your spark by nearly 50%.  The high 
output blaster coil from MSD can be found on the net for about $45.00.

With these few low cost and easy to do steps, you will be amazed at how much 
better your car will run with regular old spark plugs rather than the Bosch 
which are way over priced.  If it were my car, I would do all the other 
things long before spending money on plugs that may not provide much 
benefit.  My new 390 motor which recently turned a whisker under 460 HP on 
the dyno did it with plain old Autolite platinum plugs for $1.99 each and 
that was the cost that the machine shop charged me for them.  I'll bet I 
could have found them on sale somewhere for $1.29 each.

My advice is to go for all the other things first and then after you have 
upgraded your ignition you still want to try the Bosch, give it shot and see 
if you can tell the difference.  I am betting the car will run and feel 
exactly the same as it did without them.

Regards,
Dan Curtis
d.curtis@xxxxxxx
602-317-2018 



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 00:02:30 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Fw: Rear axel flange WANTED
To: <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Dyno19@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <01c101c67d5d$07eeaa30$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

New Texan below is looking for some parts for his Sportabout. Anyone have any laying around they can hook him up with feel free to give him a shout below, thanks in advance to all who might reply. 
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*email is currently HEAVY
Call if important*
www.planethoustonamx.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Dyno19@xxxxxxx 
To: eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 
Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: Rear axel flange


Hello Eddie,  I have purchased a few items from You in the past. I used to live in Hamilton Ohio, I moved to Eagle Pass Tx in Feb this Year.Brought My AMC Cars with Me. What I need help with is I need Two axel flanges (rear) for 1973 Hornet Sportabout. 232 CI with 7 9/16 Axel


                        Thank You
                                Donald Spaulding

------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 07:15:55 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F3F@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

"maybe i will wait on that front suspension for when i get home. one of
the guys here, never seeing a rambler, claims to have a buddy with a jav
that is a very competent road racer. suggested looking into adapting
a-arms from one of them to fit. im thinking it will take a lot of work,
but i havent gotten to see the suspension of a jav real close. anyway, i
have torch, welder, will fabricate if needed. "

Contrary to popular belief, there is no performance gain by changing the
suspension on the older Ramblers. A trunnion works as good as a ball
joint. The only gain is in a greater variety of bolt on parts, which is
of little value if you can do just a little fabrication work. To change
to Mustang II brakes, for instance, you just need to fabricate a caliper
mount. The MII  hubs supposedly fit the AMC spindles (I haven't actually
tried, but have talked to a couple people who say they fit, and are
pretty reliable sources), but the flange is further out by about 3/4" on
each side. That's not a problem running 7" wide wheels, but wider may
be. 
The lower arms of the Javelin are nearly identical to the 62 Classic, no
gain there. The upper a arm is angled some, which gives some anti-dive,
but soft springs is what causes all the "wallow" and body roll on the
old cars. Once stiffer springs are installed it will handle more like a
modern car. I used 15% stiffer front springs and the "half leaf" bolt on
helper springs on my 63 American along with 195/65 Goodrich radials. It
would stick to the road like it was on tracks, handled as good as and
rode better than a friends 79 Trans-Am. If it had a bit of power to go
with the handling it would have been a whole lot better! You can only do
so much with a 196 OHV though. I don't think you can make the Javelin
upper arm (or any 70 or later AMC -- all used the same upper arm except
Pacer) fit the 62 Classic. The way the arm mounts to the body is
different. The 62 upper arm assembly is much lighter (lighter is
better!) anyway. It doesn't have to be super strong, the arms don't
carry the weight of the car, they just keep the steering knuckle
vertical. 
Since you have the fabrication tools and skill Dave, adapt coil overs on
the front if you want the adjustability. Once you see how the suspension
is made you will figure out how to do it easy enough. The 62 suspension
is basically the same as the 63. Go to www.wps.com and check out the
Rambler links, one has good photos of the 63 suspension out of the car.



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 00:16:42 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] response to Spark Plug question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1148282202.7034.29.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Sun, 2006-05-21 at 21:22, Dan Curtis wrote:

> Now to your question regarding the Bosch 4 tip plugs, you need to keep in 
> mind that an electrode can only arc to any one of the four prongs on a given 
> cycle from the ignition.

Yeah, that stuff is a crock. Modern engines cram a well-mixed fuel::air
mixture right up into that spark gap area, and if there's a big fat
spark it will go off. 


> Rather than go for the over price plugs, spend your extra money on the 
> electronic ignition upgrade kit for your distributor,

Points are Cool, but nothing beats a hot spark from a good electronic
ignition! 

This happened to me today: I did a minor tuneup at 1yr/16,000 miles on
my 258 Hornet. Plugs, cap, rotor, timing tweak, idle mix tweak. Ran fine
at idle, couldn't go over 2000 rpm without severe breakup!

I checked timing (OK), then looked at the cap & rotor. I'd bought Blue
Streak. It didn't look right...

Long story short, on the bench, the tip of the rotor missed the cap
connection by nearly 1/4 inch! Rotor (118X) marked clearly "6 CYL". Got
out the old Standard brand (a much heavier gray plastic), clearance from
rotor tip to cap connection about .010".

Crap parts, even when you pay good money. That cap was not cheap! Back
it goes.

Quality parts and documented settings beat gimmicks any day.



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 07:32:59 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List]  Frank S. Old Rambler on TV
To: <AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx>
Cc: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F40@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

"I was watching American Muscle Car on TV friday morning and it was
about the AMC muscle cars, There was a brief photo of your old Rambler
shown Frank. Did you ever get a fair monetary settlement from the
insurance company when it got wrecked? "Doc "

Yes, I got a fair amount ($9500, check for $9000 - $500 for me to keep
the wreck). Had to complain to the state insurance commision, but sent
an e-mail copy to the insurance company head office. THAT got an
immediate response from them, and they were suddenly very willing to
work with me. They originally offered $3700 for the car. I had a "stated
value" policy with the same company (by coincidence the guy who hit me
had the same company) for $7K, and would have took that had they offered
it right away. Lucky for me they didn't, I guess, though I did tell them
about it and my agent sent them the info. Their response was it didn't
matter, they just had to give me (by law) the current value and they
determined it was $3500, but would give me the $3700 offered anyway. I
have the current one insured for $10K now, but would still have to go
through that "dance" to get it. If the car had been repairable I don't
think I'd have had nearly as much trouble. 
I have a copy of that show somewhere! The producer wanted something that
represented the typical Rambler before the advent of the Javelin. The
wheels are turned because he didn't want the custom wheels showing. If
it had been flamed like the current one he wouldn't have used it. 



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 22 May 2006 07:30:21 -0400
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC List Dues
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4471688D.26416.2B49044@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII




Message: 2
Date: Sun, 21 May 2006 08:38:57 -0400
From: "Thomas, Jeff" <jeff.thomas@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Want to post
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
 <2BEA03C6137B454CB50F2E92146D05CA0E37830B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Please allow me to post to the forum.

Jeffrey Thomas		jeff.thomas@xxxxxxxx




==



Ok Jeff - $10.00 payable monthly - for each member ".;)




   milnersXcoupe
      NEW YORK


------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 47
***************************************