AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 41
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 41
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- Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 04:45:32 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. AMC show (Mahoney, John)
2. Re: Switching to disc brakes.-Proportioning valve (John Elle)
3. Anyone know a guy in Lawrenceville, PA, has an AMC museum,
SC/Rambler, 67 Marlin, etc ? (Jerry Casper)
4. '62 Rambler 400 2-door available again in Virginia (
previously Saving Car post )... (Jerry Casper)
5. AMC Snoop De Ville (Eddie Stakes)
6. my 62 classic project (d stohler)
7. Re: AMC show (John Elle)
8. Re: Anyone know a guy in Lawrenceville, PA, has an AMC
museum, SC/Rambler, 67 Marlin, etc ? (Robert Sliko)
9. Re: Switching to disc brakes.-Proportioning valve (Jim Shadwick)
10. Re: Switching to disc brakes. (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
11. Re: my 62 classic project (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
12. more electric fan stuff (Teamamc)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 17:52:32 -0400
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC show
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A02202BA6@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Eddie didn't show off the "double-stretch" Nash,
http://www.orangeshow.org/vote2006/images/179.jpg
so he'll want to reach out and touch some Bondo.
Frank didn't call Mark an "apogee-eyed" Classic,
http://www.amcrc.com/photos/classic62.JPG
so they'll want to reach back and touch a Stude.
http://www.americaslibrary.gov/assets/jb/modern/jb_modern_loewy_1_e.jpg
http://www.garyzcarz.com/images/studebaker/studebaker-31.jpg
Back then, many art arches were in touch with the curves of design time.
http://rmc.library.cornell.edu/Aap-exhibit/images/brasilia.jpg
That architecture student's professor was Frederick Edmundson. Get it?
Edmund [Ander]son + architecture = wheels? Cars + building = fine art?
Not to be confused with rubber rounds + apogee curves = hoops. Get it?
Oh, hec [!]: throw more confusion on the grill. No one read this junk.
http://www.djc.com/news/const/11115562
The more you see, the better life gets.
Didn't anyone see "1922 Ambassador" here yesterday and ask, "Huh?"
If you did, didn't you ask yourself, "Why doesn't he write right?"
If you did, why are you hiding your smarts behind a shiny grille?
Huh? -Huh-?? HUH???
Big Ambassadors were built before Nash built big Ambassadors?
The first big Ambassador was built only for 1922 and 1923?
In 1924, 1925, and 1926, a smaller Ambassador was built?
A Model D-1 that sold for $1695?
It didn't taste like chicken?
It did look like a Buick?
But it wasn't by Nash?
Don't believe it.
Go on.
No.
You go on.
Start now.
http://www.kclibrary.org/localhistory/media.cfm?mediaID=1286
Somebody write the rest of the story: shine some light into the grave.
Are you too yellow to be mellow, always off-duty, or too taxed to try?
Or too typical for AMC? "What would you do?" if -you- had to compete?
http://www.planethoustonamx.com/parts/71_nos_cc_watercolor.JPG
Since the three-light Pacer prototype (with speedlines and fastback...) link didn't go yesterday, the three-door Pacer-into-Fusion wagon link didn't go last week, and any links I take time to find, tiny, and post don't go anywhere for anyone who won't read, hasn't time, or can't see, it's pointless to keep trying to make anything more out of deadly AMC.
Research wheel arches on your own. Know how lower rear fender designs at S-P, GM, Ford, and Mopar connected with Rambler-AMC. Make the most mileage both Donohue ponies may muster. Learn Camaro-Javelin history! Search for X-actly where the classic two-seater rear fender originated and prove your thesis with words and pictures. Stick your nose beyond the Hornet "grill" and breathe deeply. You're missing lots of AMC now.
Read about AMC in English, German and Ebonics; write well about AMC in whichever language you worked hard to develop skill. Show off any AMC vehicles you worked hard to develop skills to repair, restore, and pay for; then speak intelligently and factually (in a kindly manner) about AMC cars and history to convince those you encounter that AMC truly is interesting and wholly worthy of their old-car time, effort, or money.
Without better returns on everyone's investment, hobby AMC will fail. It's a niche nameplate? So AMC should be -more- successful than the Big-3 are: smaller + working harder/being smarter = more/better/best.
http://www.adage.com/article?article_id=109173
American Motors said it built the "Smartest, most economical station wagons on the road --- Rambler for 1958." (AM didn't say they were the best looking: save for some Mopars, how many '58 American motor vehicles -were- really good looking?)
So what happened to smartness? Where are the smart AM people in 2006?
Some of what America saw in AM can now be seen in "The Big Book of Car Culture: An Armchair Guide to Automotive America" (printed in China...): green Rambler on front; pink Gremlin on back; more AM on inside pages.
Hash Hornet (page 94); "Gremlin: Something New/Something Old" (120-121); "Pacer: A Failure?" (122-123); Nash Airflyte (153); "Hummer and Jeeps" (157-159); and "Smartest" (182). If that is enough to feed your need for AMC knowledge, stick your nose back in the Hornet "grill" and hide from reality. You, along with what's left of American motor industry (now being forced to admit it cannot build Japanese, German and Korean cars as well as Japanese, Germans and Koreans do at home: quality of US-built Toyotas, Nissans and Hondas has apparently fallen so fast and so far that product planners now plan to build tomorrow's "American" cars in places like China and Mexico: if we're not fools and we're not lazy, then what are we? Clueless idiots?) --- both won't even know what has happened. By then, if your AMC car is still running, you'll be -dead-.
You'll be pushing up Daisy Yellow daisies, you'll have [re]turned to dust on a grill, or, if you're a cockeyed optimist, you'll be "on ice" like some Red Flag flyer (budget-minded Yankees will also be on a Red Flyer --- which they hope to drive away [if you can't see beyond your "grill", you're missing the whole joke] or you'll be slipping Walt a Mickey when he thaws.
Your grandkids will buy "All-American" KIAs assembled in Agua Caliente, your favorite NASCAR tracks will hype "All-American" racecars designed in Australia and built in India, your great-grandkids will ride busses to schools that assess ever-higher taxes and produce ever-lower scores with European-developed diesel-hybrid or fuel-cell motors assembled in Vietnam, and, if anyone has any money to take AMC to car shows, no one will see American Motors beyond a "silver grill" or small block of V-8 muscle. The actual AMC art of -argent- will be lost with alchemy. If that's the way you want it, you're doing great today. Have a good AMC weekend. Get those "grills" shined up: there are shows -next- Sunday.
One of them is right here in WNY, back after unfortunate cancellation last year, in its second new location. It used to be the biggest car show in upstate NY (1000+ entries, among them 20+ AMC family --- most AMC seen here outside an AMC meet [a what?] here now); it'll be a bit smaller in 2006, ~800 cars on display. All Nash-Rambler-AMC welcome; just ignore the host club's marque. Click what, when, where, and go to the show. AMC isn't completely dead. Yet.
http://www.mgcarclub.com/wny/CarShowForms/ShowCvrprel.2.pdf
http://www.mgcarclub.com/wny/CarShowForms/carshowClasses2006.pdf
http://www.mgcarclub.com/wny/CarShowForms/carshowdirections2006.pdf
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 17:46:44 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Switching to disc brakes.-Proportioning valve
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000a01c67ba6$e1ad81f0$3fdd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Jim
SNIP
HI.........
Where is the proportioning valve located on a 79 Concord????????
Thanks,
Jim
SNIP
The proportioning valve, also known and functions as the pressure
differential valve is located on the passenger side bottom of the fire
wall where the chassis rail comes into the fire wall under the hood. (Or
very close to that location) and may be solid brass or plumbed up from
what looks like pipe. I would not be a bad idea to get the lines and
fittings too as I think that there is an odd fitting used there that you
may want to re-use.
John.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 19:18:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry Casper <gremlingts@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Anyone know a guy in Lawrenceville, PA, has an AMC
museum, SC/Rambler, 67 Marlin, etc ?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060520021822.74560.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Been talking to a guy in Williamsport, PA , he
mentioned a guy who was a former AMC dealership owner,
has an AMC museum up his way in Lawrenceville. Anyone
heard of him, or know of him, and his name? thanks,
Jerry. ( Just curious )
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------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 19:30:44 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry Casper <gremlingts@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] '62 Rambler 400 2-door available again in Virginia
( previously Saving Car post )...
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx, AMC <amc-delmarva@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20060520023044.3823.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
My club's '62 Rambler 400 model, with aluminum 6
engine, has been turned down by my friend, so it's
available again for purchase from whomever is
interested. Gold car, 2-door, hard-to-find 2 door
model, located in Crewe, VA about 50 miles from
Richmond. Asking price is $400, I believe there is a
title, I don't have it , it's in the possession of our
club president, and will attempt to get him to try to
locate it at his home. :)
Anyway, the car was running when parked 5 ? years
ago, maybe more, can't guarantee anything now. has
rust in the front and rear frame areas, not huge, but
will need attention or the car may flex. I believe all
the trim is there either on the car, or inside it. A
few minor dings,nothing major. I have digital pics if
anyone is interested, both of the body and the frame
areas.
Was holding it for a friend who was possibly
interested, but I need to make room, and it's in my
way, so he declined the car and said to sell it. So
anyone who's interested please E me about it. The car
is safely moved off my aunt's farm and on my property
now, but would like it sold since it's not mine. I'm
just the club officer trying to find a home for it.
Contact me for further info.
Jerry Casper
Woodbridge, VA
car in Crewe, VA
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 21:57:29 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC Snoop De Ville
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <002a01c67bb9$42ae6750$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
While wallowing thru Wally Wolrd the other day with Noah & Jacob, I saw
something I could not stop laughing. It is a mid 70s Cadillac called Snoop
De Ville. Tricked, for lack of better term, you have to see this neat radio
controlled car. Of course Snoop Doggy Dog (ok, he lost the Doggy part) is
shown on the cover, and you can reach in and press a button to hear the
Snoopness in all is bong influenced wisdom say stuff like 'this mizzle is a
tizzle fo shizzle' or something like that. I could not stop laughing and
forgot what the hell I went in Wally World for.
Bought cat food anyhows for the evil feral cats that come around, not sure
why I feed them. So I was on feebay tonight and happened upon what looks to
be what would be Snoop's car if it would have been a AMC Ambassador.
Any moment you expect a posse to jump out and throttle limies at Heathrow
who won't let them get into First Class. Fo Shizzle!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1971-AMC-Ambassador-360-Brougham-Two-Door-Hardtop_W0QQitemZ4642104078QQcategoryZ5357QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Yo dog, red/red 71 Amshizzleado me hed, pass da rock! If the above link
breaks, search for item number on www.ebay.com of 4642104078
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 20:14:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060520031427.67065.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
several people have stated it is easier to go with a ford 9" or 8.8. i realize this, but ever since i inherited this car, i have decided to keep as much amc as possible. also, i was reading an article, hotrod or carcraft, a month or so ago, the ford 9" is heavier than gm 12, 10, and so on. the car is light, i want it to stay light, keep that unsprung weight down. before i got sent here to iraq, i drove the car every day, and plan to when it is finished. keeping amc, and weight down, amc m20 sounded best idea to me. yes, i am using a t-5 from a mustang, but there were some t-5's used by amc, just not strong enough for my needs. well, im hoping to run a t-5. i have to measure distances first. i want to retain my bench seats, but the shifter on the mustang t-5 looks a little far back. i am on a tight budget, and would LOVE to have the tko 500, but i wont be able to afford that. i wont have any problem with shifter location then. i have been told there are bellhousings that
bolt up to a 304 and a t-5. just have to figure out what cars had that combination so i can raid them... as always, i am very open to other ideas and suggestions.
dave stohler
camp taji iraq
---------------------------------
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 20:28:24 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC show
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000001c67bbd$77fef1f0$3fdd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
John
SNIP
The first big Ambassador was built only for 1922 and 1923?
In 1924, 1925, and 1926, a smaller Ambassador was built?
A Model D-1 that sold for $1695?
SNIP
The Yellow Cab Mfg. Co. (1921-1925) Chicago Illinois
http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/y/yellow_coach/yellow_coach.htm
http://a.parsons.edu/~erlend/bootcamp/web/hw/hw_yellow.html
could be considered responsible for this not to be confused with the
Checker Company that produced Cabs only from 1922 to 1959 but did
produce "Civilian" versions up until the end of production.
SNIP
Research wheel arches on your own.
SNIP
If memory serves me right, the fender opening on the Citroen 2CV was
designed is such a way that no matter where the wheel was actually
positioned, it always appeared to be centered. This of course could be
duplicated!
;-)
John
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 23:30:28 -0400
From: "Robert Sliko" <robert.sliko@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Anyone know a guy in Lawrenceville, PA, has an
AMC museum, SC/Rambler, 67 Marlin, etc ?
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000901c67bbd$bda91cd0$6501a8c0@BOB>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Jerry,
You may be thinking of the Chilson's. They have a former AMC
dealership and throw an annual show/party.
Bob
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Casper" <gremlingts@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2006 10:18 PM
Subject: [AMC-List] Anyone know a guy in Lawrenceville, PA, has an AMC
museum,SC/Rambler, 67 Marlin, etc ?
> Been talking to a guy in Williamsport, PA , he
> mentioned a guy who was a former AMC dealership owner,
> has an AMC museum up his way in Lawrenceville. Anyone
> heard of him, or know of him, and his name? thanks,
> Jerry. ( Just curious )
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 21:35:30 -0600
From: Jim Shadwick <idahoamx@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Switching to disc brakes.-Proportioning valve
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <446E8E82.20705@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Thanks John
Nice to see you back.....guess I better go and get that stuff before the
car gets crushed.....
Jim:
--
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------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 04:03:28 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Switching to disc brakes.
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F3B@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Jim, there should be a combination valve on the 79. It's the juncion
block for the brakes with the warning switch in it. AMC used two types
-- one with a metering valve, one without. I think all the small cars
got the one without. It's easy to tell -- the one without metering has a
T in the line to the front brakes between the combo vlave and master
cylinder. The one with a metering valve has no T. The front brakes both
tie to the combo valve. "Metering" holds off applying the front brakes
until ~100 psi is reached so that the front and rear brakes apply
together (it takes about 100 psi to overcome the springs in the rear
drum brakes).
Date: Friday, May 19, 2006 02:28 PM
From: Jim Shadwick <idahoamx@xxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:idahoamx@xxxxxxxxx?subject=Re: [AMC-List] Switching to disc
brakes.>
HI.........
Where is the proportioning valve located on a 79 Concord????????
Thanks,
Jim
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Sat, 20 May 2006 04:15:12 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F3C@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Get the bell from any 79 or later six cylinder manual shift car. That
has the bolt pattern for the T-5 and will bolt to the 304. If you're
using a 304 you can use the AMC 15 axle, but not with anything bigger.
It's as strong as the Dana 35 used in Jeeps with the 4.0L six, and only
those doing serious off-road traveling have problems with D35. The 4.0L
has more power than a stock 304, more like a mild built one. Then you
can use the rear from a six cylinder Concord or Spirit. If you go with
anything bigger than a 304 you'll need the AMC 20 for sure though.
Date: Friday, May 19, 2006 10:14 PM
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
<mailto:das24rules@xxxxxxxxx?subject=[AMC-List] my 62 classic project>
i have been told there are bellhousings that bolt up to a 304 and a
t-5.
just have to figure out what cars had that combination so i can raid
them...
as always, i am very open to other ideas and suggestions.
dave stohler
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 19 May 2006 22:45:26 -0600
From: Teamamc <Teamamc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] more electric fan stuff
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <002201c67bc8$36b8e380$6700a8c0@FAST>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Fans are not designed for creating positive pressure! They can only put out 5 to 6 in H20 (.18-.22psi). They are designed to move air from one location to another not to pressurize it. This is referring to the typical fans you see on Ebay.
Okay let's go with a 2001 Celica GTS for comparison.
Specs:
a.. Displacement: 1.8 litres (1,796 cc)
b.. Bore x Stroke: 82.0 mm x 85.0 mm
c.. Compression ratio: 11.5:1
d.. Horsepower: 180 hp @ 7,600 rpm
e.. Torque: 130 lb.-ft. @ 6,800 rpm
Okay now that we have the specs of the motor. Let's see how much air it consumes.
a.. v = (pi/4)*(bore)^2*(stroke)*(Ncylce)*(# Cylinders)
b.. v = 3.14/4*(3.228in)^2*(3.346in)*(7600/2)*(4)
c.. v = 416369in^3/min(1ft^3/1728ft^3)
d.. v = 241.0 CFM
Mind you this is 100% VE. So say at a more reasonable 90% (VVT-I helps increase this number thus creating more power) so that leaves us with:
a.. v = 241.0 CFM * 0.9
b.. v = 216.9 CFM actual
Now I am sure you are thinking that the fan is forcing the extra CFM into the motor right? Wrong. The air will actually just pass through the blades in a reverse direction thus providing no benefit to power. But this is the thermodynamic method of finding the power a fan needs to move and slightly compress air (between 0.18-.22psi). But lets say it will magically create 5 psi boost for a "30hp" gain.
a.. Fan air power = w * Ht
b.. Fan air power = (216.9cfm)*(5psi)*(144in^3/1ft^2)(1hp/33000ftlb/min)
c.. Fan air power = 4.7 Hp
Okay and 4.7hp = 3.5kw of power.
Divide that by 13 volts (average operating battery voltage). Now that leaves you with 270 amps of power. So now I have to ask does your friend have a 270 amp inline fuse for his monster fan? No I don't think so, and this is with 100% efficient motor as well. So it would actually have to consume more power than that. But oh wait....the factory rating on most alternators are around 80-90 amps (approx value). Seems his fan is consuming 3 times as much as the alternator can put out. Hmm....odd.
Divide that by 13 volts (average operating battery voltage). now that leaves you with 270 amps of power. So now it leaves you to wonder if you would need a 270 amp inline fuse for this monster fan. I have yet to see anything with a 270 amp fuse in a car. mind you this is with 100% efficient motor as well. So it would actually have to consume more power than that. Another thing to consider is that the factory rating on most alternators are around 80-90 amps. So an electric turbo would be consuming 3 times as much power as the alternator can put out.
So a long story short an electric turbo just won't create more power than what they consume to run them.
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 41
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