AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3
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- Date: Fri, 02 Jun 2006 10:22:44 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Ardsley N.Y. Show (Mr. AMC)
2. Re: 64 Rambler AC and "R" mirror wanted (Sandwich Maker)
3. Re: Flywheel needed (Sandwich Maker)
4. Re: Flywheel needed (Sandwich Maker)
5. Re: 64 rambler AC & "R" mirror wanted (Eddie Stakes)
6. Re: Water Pump 1974 AMX Javelin (getting the right pump...)
(Richard Brown)
7. Re: AC installing (J Johnson)
8. Re: AC installing (Sandwich Maker)
9. AMC Ink - Mr Javelin (Ron)
10. Re: 64 Rambler AC and "R" mirror wanted
(francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
11. Re: AC installing (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
12. Re: AC installing (John Elle)
13. Re: AC installing - R-12 to R-134a conversions
(francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 08:36:22 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: [AMC-List] Ardsley N.Y. Show
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx,
AmericanMotorsModelbuilders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
BaadAssGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, MacsOrphanCarGroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <4153-447EDF46-6595@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
This sunday June 4'th is the Ardsley N.Y. Show. The weather report keeps
changing and now it says cloudy and 72 degrees. I am about to leave the
house to have my car washed and detailed. The rain date is the following
sunday should it be needed. Call Steve at 1-914-423-7115 after 6:00pm
for info.
"Doc"
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:24:35 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 64 Rambler AC and "R" mirror wanted
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx, regency01@xxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606011324.k51DOZm25324@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Rick Ennis" <regency01@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" Wanted: Factory A/C underdash unit and parts to upgrade my 64 Rambler
" american convertible.
dunno if you're going for original, but i've seen a few early ramblers
done with modern sanden rotary compressors, even a '64 196. dunno
details about mounting save that the brackets had to be fabbed but
weren't hard, but their advantages are several: sandens are relatively
cheap and easy to find even in v-belt form, and they take only a
fraction [i've heard 1/3] of the hp the old york compressor takes.
this is a big deal on the old sixes.
you of course still need the factory underdash unit; everything else
but it can also be easily subbed with modern parts.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:28:08 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Flywheel needed
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606011328.k51DS8h25375@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" I was working on the 64 Classic but had some bad luck
" in the last couple of days. The short story is that
" someone has transplanted a 232 six into the car in
" front of the T-96 tranny.
just a clarification - it isn't original? '64 was the first year for
the 232.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 09:30:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Flywheel needed
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606011330.k51DUuu25407@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" []
" A few days later, after sitting I
" restarted it and it had no oil circulation to the head
" and the dry valves clattered. I connected a
" mechanical oil pressure gauge to the engine and it had
" 50 pounds of oil pressure with the oil cold, but still
" no oil to the head. Then later it had good
" circulation to the head again. Something is
" periodically blocking circulation to the head. Yes, I
" pulled the shaft rocker bolt and the suspect head bolt
" and tried to clean out the passage. I also used engine
" flush.
second thought: something could be allowing the oil to completely
drain back, so that the galleries are empty after sitting a few days.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 11:34:03 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 64 rambler AC & "R" mirror wanted
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: Rick Ennis <regency01@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <004401c6859b$845cfef0$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Andrew wrote:
From: andrew hay <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Rick Ennis" <regency01@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" Wanted: Factory A/C underdash unit and parts to upgrade my 64 Rambler
" american convertible.
dunno if you're going for original, but i've seen a few early ramblers
done with modern sanden rotary compressors, even a '64 196. dunno
details about mounting save that the brackets had to be fabbed but
weren't hard, but their advantages are several: sandens are relatively
cheap and easy to find even in v-belt form, and they take only a
fraction [i've heard 1/3] of the hp the old york compressor takes.
this is a big deal on the old sixes.
you of course still need the factory underdash unit; everything else
but it can also be easily subbed with modern parts.
I agree, as many times there are places in one's area that retrofit slimline
AC systems into old cars, like 32 Vicky's, 40 Plymouths, and otherspre-AC.
And everything else under hood is fabricated, and many will usea Sanyo AC
compressor, about the size of a Foster beer can. AC used thoseon later model
Eagles; I'm not sure what year it started, but both my 82& 88 Eagle have
them from factory. The 81 don't but it is a non-AC car.You might contact
some of the automotive AC specialsts in your area,possibly if there is a AMC
or Rambler chapter, get ahold of them (on mylinks section of website) and
see if they can point you in direction locallythat is unless you want all
stock behind dash stuff. It won't be easy to installeither, if I recall,
Rambler had a metal frame dash?
On the mirror, check these out:
http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=rambler+mirror
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*email is currently HEAVY
Call if important*
www.planethoustonamx.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 16:34:59 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Brown <moby43@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Water Pump 1974 AMX Javelin (getting the right
pump...)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060601233459.38507.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Thanks Matt, I am having a devil of a time also. Thanks for the tip
Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx> wrote: You may want to try Kanter Auto Products (http://www.kanter.com) if you
strike out elsewhere. I was having a devil of a time finding a water pump
with the correct outlet size for my 67 wagon last year and they had it.
Matt
At 03:24 AM 5/30/2006 +0000, you wrote:
>Yes, that's what they are doing, collapsing catalogs into one size fits
>as many as possible. They know the castings are the same for all AMC
>V-8s or sixes for the most part, so they collapse the part numbers to as
>few as possible. That way they can stock one pump that you might have to
>change a hose location or something on, but it will otherwise work fine.
>In their zeal to stock as few parts as possible, they overdo it though.
>The people collapsing the numbers don't have access to the real parts,
>they just do a little (to little) "research". There were at least two
>different bolt patterns, two shaft lengths, and two different heater
>hose outlets (on opposite sides, so plumbing around isn't easy) for the
>196 water pump. There were eight different combos IIRC, out of 16
>possible. One or two could be consolidated, so there should be at least
>six part numbers. Try ordering one though and it's pot luck that you get
>the correct one. 6-7 years ago I ordered two from NAPA, which is usually
>good, and got the wrong one. The reorder was different but wrong, so I
>had them send my old one in to be rebuilt. That's the ONLY way you're
>guranteed to get one that fits correctly. Most stores can get them
>rebuilt, but it takes 2-4 weeks depending on location.
>
>
>On Sun, 2006-05-28 at 00:41, Jim Blair wrote:
> > A: You got the pump for the wrong model or too new. Ask for one for a
>V8
> > Hornet and you should get the correct one.
>
>TomJ --
>
>In a perfect world, yes ... :-)
>
>Six or eight, the aftermarket world's data is corrupting. I think
>they're consolidating back catalogs, collapsing models into model-year,
>or something, as it's harder and hard to even get quality stores to
>document the difference, even when they know there is one.
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
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------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 18:10:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: J Johnson <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AC installing
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060602011010.4612.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I was wondering, using a vintage AC unit, will one need to use the
older, more costly Freon in order for it to function?? Have been told
that the alledged compatible mix stuff out now basically can cause
seizures of internals as the oils when mixed together are not truly
compatible.. Now if a unit is completely uncharged, the newer 134 (I
think is called) CAN be used, yes??? Thanks in advance..
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 21:40:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AC installing
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200606020140.k521eaw02931@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: J Johnson <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx>
"
" I was wondering, using a vintage AC unit, will one need to use the
" older, more costly Freon in order for it to function?? Have been told
" that the alledged compatible mix stuff out now basically can cause
" seizures of internals as the oils when mixed together are not truly
" compatible.. Now if a unit is completely uncharged, the newer 134 (I
" think is called) CAN be used, yes??? Thanks in advance..
no, you don't have to use r12. the compatible stuff is in fact
compatible. the main issue with it is they can't recycle it the way
they do with r12 or r134 because they're single compounds which can be
easily separated from the oil but compatibles are afaik all mixtures
which if anything are too compatible with the oil and not separable at
all. also, it's fairly well known that r134 isn't quite as frosty as
r12, but i've heard that some of the compatibles cool better.
vy important! r12 and r134 use different oils, incompatible with each
other, and several parts such as hoses and dryers are not
cross-compatible either. you can't just empty the r12 and recharge
with r134, but it is possible to convert. i -think- the '64 with the
sanden was running r134 but i'm not sure.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 19:11:19 -0700
From: Ron <1970javelin@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMC Ink - Mr Javelin
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <22107901.1149214279136.JavaMail.root@fepweb04>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
If you are as AMCrazy as I am you gotta pick up a copy of July 2006 issue of Muscle Car Enthusiast. Thanks to Rich Truesdale who wrote & photographed an excellent article on MR. Javelin, Guy Hadsall. My bud, Roman set up the meeting with Guy but I had already moved to Oregon from S. Cal. I couldn't attend with my SoCalAMX brothers, but I got an autographed copy of his book- Thanks, Roman!
Also in the same issue is a great article on dyno tuning an AMC 390. Thanks to Rich again for his influence on the magazine.
It's the best $25 I've ever spent on a subscription to ANY magazine that I have
ever read!
Ron Akerman
Rogue Valley Rumblers
Gold Hill, Oregon
70 Donohue
70 Ambo 360 Wagon - still for sale
74 Hornet Hatchback Project
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 04:52:32 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 64 Rambler AC and "R" mirror wanted
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F64@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Finding a factory unit for a 64 will be tough. Check with Vintage Air
and Southern Air. Both sell under dash units that look period anyway.
The original system for the American was little more than a custom under
dash unit.
As Andrew pointed out, the small Sanden compressors are much more
effificent. Local AC shops carry a bracket that adapts the Sanden
compressor to the old style mount. All I'd look for is an original AC
mount for the engine and use all new parts for the rest of the system.
The universal kits work fine, but the brackets for the compressor needs
lots of work for most AMCs. Most of the kits don't come with the
bracket, you buy that separately depending on make/model.
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 05:03:49 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AC installing
To: <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx>, <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F65@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"Date: Thursday, June 1, 2006 08:10 PM
From: J. Johnson <imfatdad@xxxxxxxxx>
I was wondering, using a vintage AC unit, will one need to use the
older, more costly Freon in order for it to function?? Have been told
that the alledged compatible mix stuff out now basically can cause
seizures of internals as the oils when mixed together are not truly
compatible.. Now if a unit is completely uncharged, the newer 134 (I
think is called) CAN be used, yes??? Thanks in advance.."
This can be confusing! There are two main types of oil, Ester and PAG.
Ester should only be used with R-134a, PAG is a synthetic that works
with most refrigerants and is compatible with R-134a or R-12. If you run
an incompatible oil the compressor could seize due to lack of
lubrication.
It's easy when starting with a fresh system -- get the right oil. All
new aftermarket systems use R-134a, so you should have no problems. When
converting a system make sure all the oil is out then install the
correct oil. The oil cans are labeled "not compatible with xxx". Read
the fine print! There are a few good conversion sites on the net, a
search will turn them up.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 1 Jun 2006 22:04:56 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AC installing
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000001c68602$1b629560$ecdc0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
It was 107 today! It's been triple digits now for over a week. Summer is
warming up a bit then it will get hotter.
I have converted all of my freon A/C automotive units to R134. Here is
the differences that I have noticed.
When the outside temperature gets over 95 degrees the 134 units just
keep right on cooling. At 100 degrees the Freon units were straining
their little poopers to blow cold air. At 110 degrees the exact same
unit will blow ice cold using 134. There will be a tendency at a stop
light for the air temperature to get warmer but as soon as the car is
under motion the air temperature begins to drop again. I have no problem
using 134 and have found on the whole it cools better than freon.
SNIP
you can't just empty the r12 and recharge with r134,
SNIP
Sonofagun, I did not know that! 'Cause that is exactly what I do! Well
actually about 4 years ago that was the urban legend involved as freon
started to disappear but in this area there are a whole lot of extremely
knowledgeable A/C guys that deal with automotive A/C quite regularly.
Did I mention that there has been a whole week of triple digit
temperatures and the high was 107. Howabout tomorrows high at 109. It
will start cooling down along about October but triple digit is a way of
life here and if the A/C does not work the car ain't worth having.
On a working system I vent the freon, leave a fitting open and purge the
lines with 1 can of 134, then install using the adapter on the line with
the refill hose using the gauge and set for the recommended pressure
based on outside temperature. Of course that is making sure I re-seal
what ever fitting I opened as a vent. On a non-working system I make
what ever repairs are required and fill it with 134 and call it good to
go.
So as far as I am concerned I discount the "You can't do that's" and go
ahead and fill them up. So far over the last 4 years I have had no
failures that could be attributed to the use of 134.
For what it is worth.
John.
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Fri, 2 Jun 2006 10:22:28 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AC installing - R-12 to R-134a conversions
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65F67@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
"SNIP
you can't just empty the r12 and recharge with r134, SNIP Sonofagun, I
did not know that! 'Cause that is exactly what I do! Well actually about
4 years ago that was the urban legend involved as freon started to
disappear but in this area there are a whole lot of extremely
knowledgeable A/C guys that deal with automotive A/C quite regularly."
Around 1982, when the switch to R-134a was inevitable, most
manufacturers started using PAG instead of ester oil in all compressors,
even with R-12. I'm not sure if PAG is cheaper or they just decided to
use it because it's compatible with all refrigerants. Unless you know
for sure though, change the oil. A compressor that relies on oil in the
refrigerant will burn up with ester oil. I don't know how long it will
take, don't want to find out.
This does not apply to the big old York compressors. They have a
separate oil reservoir in the crank case and don't rely on oil in the
refrigerant for lubrication -- IIRC. There is a replacement seal kit for
them, as some of the older o-rings and seals aren't compatible with
R-134a. They will slowly leak down if the seals aren't replaced. All new
seals since the late 80s are R-134a compatible, so if any work has been
done in the last 15 years or so the compressor should be good. All
remanufactured and new compressors come with compaitble oil also.
Most swap places recommend changing the dryer when you swap also because
it will contain some of the old oil. Not a bad idea, especially if the
driers old anyway, but there shouldn't be enough oil left in there to
make much of a difference. If ester oil is in the dryer the R-134a won't
pull it out and circulate it. The only thing it could do is reduce the
amount of oil or refrigerant slightly as far as I can tell. Ester and
PAG won't mix, but there are no adverse effects with mixing.
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 5, Issue 3
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