mail Digest for 28 Feb 2006 in hour 18:00
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mail Digest for 28 Feb 2006 in hour 18:00
- From: "mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <List@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 18:18:56 -0800
Topics covered in this issue include:
1: Re: Doc's gauge/switch question
by amcnut@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
2: Re: brake problem
by farna@xxxxxxx
3: Re: brake problem
by "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
4: Re: brake problem
by adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
5: Soft
by "Mahoney, John" <JMahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
6: Re: brake problem
by "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
7: Re: 74 Hornet Headlight Switch & Fuel Gauge
by Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
8: Is There An On Time Work Ethic Any More?
by AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
9: INDY MOPAR/AMC MEET free passes
by Jock J Jocewicz <namdra@xxxxxxxx>
10: Jay's Wagner brakes
by Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
11: Re: Jay's Wagner brakes
by "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
12: Re: The Jig Is Up
by Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
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1 Message:0001 1
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:19:50 -0500
From: amcnut@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Doc's gauge/switch question
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62bpH71yEXU00000058@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Doc:
Yes, the Spirit headlight switch will work, and the plugs on the wiring harness will be the same as your Hornet. You'll just need to reuse the Hornet's knob and shaft, as it is likely a different length than the one used on the Spirit.
And yes, a Gremlin fuel gauge will work on your car just fine, provided it's not from a 78 model (with the Spirit/Concord style dash).
Jeff Reeves
Auburn GA
94 Cherokee
79 Spirit GT
73 Javelin 401
72 Javelin SST
69 Ambassador DPL
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2 Message:0002 2
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:37:52 -0500
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: brake problem
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62FRaqbC8wS00000059@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Call around and see if anyone has the Wagner shoes. They shouldn't be to hard to find, but they will be special order. NAPA may have them, but in the regional warehouse, not likely stocked at the local store. If they don't check other parts stores -- they may have them available at the warehouse.
To convert to Bendix you have to have the backing plate and all. Not to tough for the fronts, but the backs require taking the hub off the axle. The wheel cylinders and anchors are slightly different between Bendix and Wagner.
I've never tried it, but if the diameter and width are the same the Bendix shoes should fit the Wagner backing plate. You'd have to have a complete Bendix spring and shoe setup, and the Bendix wheel cylinders (one uses short push rods, the other has a protrusion on the shoe that directly touches the wheel cylinder piston -- the pistons are a different design for each). You may have to drill a hole for the shoe hold down in another position on the shoe or backing plate, but that's not a problem. The problem areas will be where the pull back springs anchor and how the park brake cable connects. You'll have to check for fit and make sure the drums fit without scrubbing anything after you get the Bendix shoes mounted. It's possible that it won't work, and you'll be out the cost of the Bendix wheel cylinders and shoes, and still have to find Wagners.
On February 28, 2006 Jay Ciampi wrote:
> OK, I made another mistake, I said the adjuster was on the PRimary shoe, it
> should have been on the secondary shoe. NAPA stocks the Bendix shoes for
> $13.00/set (FRNT) and the AMC Vendors have both types but want $40 and up
> for either type. What goes here?
>
> Jay
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3 Message:0003 3
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Message-ID: <000601c63ca8$ee26cb90$b3c41ecf@Ciampi>
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: brake problem
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:52:46 -0500
Yes, I went back to NAPA and they still have the Wagner shoes listed for
the CLASSIC 6. I had them order a set from Tampa and I should have them in
the morning. The Wagner's are Mickey-mouse compared to the Bendix. The
Bendix was standard equipment on LATE 66's according to my IPC. I guess I
will just stick to the Wagner's for now. I realized that the backing plate
and all that stuff would have to be changed and if I was going to do that I
might as well get Ambassador brakes and all the stuff that goes with them.
The American brakes work pretty well as they are, even as worn and slick as
they are. I had the drums turned down slightly, mostly just enough to rough
them up a bit. They didn't need much turning. Thanks for the info
confirming the solution of the problem.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: <farna@xxxxxxx>
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: brake problem
> Call around and see if anyone has the Wagner shoes. They shouldn't be to
> hard to find, but they will be special order. NAPA may have them, but in
> the regional warehouse, not likely stocked at the local store. If they
> don't check other parts stores -- they may have them available at the
> warehouse.
>
> To convert to Bendix you have to have the backing plate and all. Not to
> tough for the fronts, but the backs require taking the hub off the axle.
> The wheel cylinders and anchors are slightly different between Bendix and
> Wagner.
>
> I've never tried it, but if the diameter and width are the same the Bendix
> shoes should fit the Wagner backing plate. You'd have to have a complete
> Bendix spring and shoe setup, and the Bendix wheel cylinders (one uses
> short push rods, the other has a protrusion on the shoe that directly
> touches the wheel cylinder piston -- the pistons are a different design
> for each). You may have to drill a hole for the shoe hold down in another
> position on the shoe or backing plate, but that's not a problem. The
> problem areas will be where the pull back springs anchor and how the park
> brake cable connects. You'll have to check for fit and make sure the drums
> fit without scrubbing anything after you get the Bendix shoes mounted.
> It's possible that it won't work, and you'll be out the cost of the Bendix
> wheel cylinders and shoes, and still have to find Wagners.
>
>
> On February 28, 2006 Jay Ciampi wrote:
>
>> OK, I made another mistake, I said the adjuster was on the PRimary shoe,
>> it
>> should have been on the secondary shoe. NAPA stocks the Bendix shoes for
>> $13.00/set (FRNT) and the AMC Vendors have both types but want $40 and up
>> for either type. What goes here?
>>
>> Jay
>
>
> =============================================================
> Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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4 Message:0004 4
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Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 15:11:24 -0500 (EST)
Message-Id: <200602282011.k1SKBOr27903@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: brake problem
" From: farna@xxxxxxx
"
"
" To convert to Bendix you have to have the backing plate and all. Not to
" tough for the fronts, but the backs require taking the hub off the axle.
" The wheel cylinders and anchors are slightly different between Bendix
" and Wagner.
that's what i suspected, which is why i suggested going to 10" drums.
if jay's going to do all that work, why not some more powerful brakes?
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
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5 Message:0005 5
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Subject: Soft
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:36:06 -0500
Message-ID: <E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A462B61@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Mahoney, John" <JMahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
Always have had a real soft spot for these old 1930s Cords, never =
thought I would actually own one either. I might have paid too much
<<
Auction is gone so we can't see -which- '30s Cord, but if it's the one =
we'd suspect, there's good reason. In fact, two good reasons: 1) Gordon =
and Dick were friends and 2) AMX paid homage to 810. If you've been =
finding facts in wordage I've posted here for almost a decade, you =
already know that --- and you know what a "Cassini" Matador paid homage =
to as well. You may even know where to see that "Copper" Cord.
So --- anyone who likes a '68-'70 AMX -should- have the same soft spot
=20
>>
It's my understanding that no 2007 models will have the 4.0L, 2006 will =
be the last year of production. It's only used in the Wrangler now, but =
it's stock in all but the SE model, so I'm not so sure 06 will be the =
last year.
<<
'06 TJ last: '07 TK gets 2.4L I-4, 3.8L V-6. Economy and emissions. =20
>>
They'd be wise to keep the 4.0L in the Wrangler, and make a four door =
and pickup version as well.
<<
TKL will be that 4-door; a version of "Gladiator" will be the pickup.
While waiting, old-style I-6 AMC-Jeep fans can play with this puzzle:
Q: What was the last year that -four- [AMC-designed] "Kelvinator" door =
handles were used on any 2WD or 4WD factory American motor vehicle(s)?
Hmmm.
So, it's the last day of February. And nobody knows how to celebrate?
Doesn't anyone care anymore about AMC's beginnings, middles, and ends? =20
Counting.
A: The last "real" AMC (assembled on 12/11/87...) bearing a -1988- VIN.
http://www.n0kfb.org/homepage/amc/eagle/88_eagle/last_amc.htm
The last "Tough American" built by American Motors --- built to last.
http://tinyurl.com/f9l2y
http://www.angelfire.com/droid/eagle0/flip.html
A: Or --- depending upon what "factory" means, in 2004 --- or 2006???
http://www.globalautoindex.com/maker.plt?no=3D639&g=3DTCV
http://www.backcountryjournal.com/stretch.htm
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6 Message:0006 6
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Message-ID: <00a101c63cb7$6fe247a0$b3c41ecf@Ciampi>
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: brake problem
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 17:36:37 -0500
I don't think I want to go to all that work. The American's brakes actually
work quite well as they are. They surprised me when I took the wheels off
and found them so worn and smooth (I was told by the former owner they were
almost new) He is a friend of mine, so I took him at his word. Wrong thing
to do. I got suspicious when I found the L/F wheel a bit loose at the wheel
brg. I wondered how long that had been loose like that. Anyway, I replaced
the brgs. a few days ago, ordered new brake shoes, then discovered I ordered
the wrong ones. Today, NAPA ordered me the correct ones(hopefully). I'll let
you know. Of course, they don't want a core. Understandable, especially for
Wagner brake parts, BTW, all the mounting parts are NLA for the Wagner
brakes. Mine are still good, thank goodness. I expect my brakes will be
just fine when I get the new shoes. I will tackle the rears in a few days. I
have no idea what condition they are in, although,like I said, the brakes
worked just fine before I started on all this. The car would come to a fast
stop when necessary without pulling one way or the other or fading or even
taking undue pedal pressure to stop. I don't have a brake booster.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sandwich Maker" <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: brake problem
>" From: farna@xxxxxxx
> "
> "
> " To convert to Bendix you have to have the backing plate and all. Not to
> " tough for the fronts, but the backs require taking the hub off the axle.
> " The wheel cylinders and anchors are slightly different between Bendix
> " and Wagner.
>
> that's what i suspected, which is why i suggested going to 10" drums.
> if jay's going to do all that work, why not some more powerful brakes?
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay the genius nature
> internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
>
>
>
>
>
>
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7 Message:0007 7
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Subject: Re: 74 Hornet Headlight Switch & Fuel Gauge
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-Id: <1141166888.6136.1.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 14:48:09 -0800
On most plastic-dash AMCs, there is a black wire grounding the outside
shell of the headlight switch -- it falls off when you extract the
cluster. Without it, dash lights wont' work unless the headlights are
on, or some other device that provides a ground path. Very annoying.
On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 03:41, Mr. AMC wrote:
> I think I have my courtesy light problem figured out. I think it is in
> the headlight switch. I had the whole interior apart and checked all the
> wiring and door jam switches and found nothing wrong. I installed the
> new interior and left the fuel gauge and courtesy light problem for this
> coming spring. I just noticed the other day for the first time I have
> driven this car at night since I bought it 2 1/2 years ago that when I
> tried to adjust the strength of the inst. lights they wont dim or
> brighten so I believe the switch is bad. My question is before I pull
> the dash apart to install another switch is will a switch from an 82
> Spirit work? The Spirit had the high beam switch on the steering column
> if that makes any difference. Also on the gas gauge problem will a gauge
> out of Gremlin work? What year did they change the ohm rating on the
> fuel gauges? It is embarrassing to have such a nice looking car that I
> have to check the fuel with a 36 inch 3/8 wooden dowel. :-( These 2
> items are the last 2 things I need to finish my interior job. I am
> psyched as today the windows get tinted a light smoke color. It should
> even make the orange body color stand out more. I gave up on the subtle
> look.
> "Doc"
>
>
>
>
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8 Message:0008 8
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From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:03:28 -0500
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx, BaadAssGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
Subject: Is There An On Time Work Ethic Any More?
Message-ID: <17168-4404E4D0-9397@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
This may be a trivial thing to some people but if you make an
appointment keep it and be on time or let someone know you are going to
cancel or be late. Two weeks ago I made an appointment to have the
windows in my orange car tinted last tuesday a week go. I called to
confirm and the guy had gone on vacation till yesterday without calling
to cancel. I called today and was told he would be there between
12-12:30. He showed up around 2:30. Granted he did a first class job and
you all know what a PIA I am about quality and detail and am extremely
happy with the job and the price but you would think you could at least
call if he was going to be late or be on time? How much work do you lose
because of a bad rap for not calling if it is going to be a no show or
if you are going to be late. Sorry for the rant but being on time or
calling if I will not be late is a thing with me.
Well at least this is out of the way. I only need to get some real dark
smoke tint from him to make the American Motors logo letters for the
windshield that I will install and then have him tint the top 6 inches
of the windshield over them. If you look close you will see the American
Motors lettering but it will not stand out like the Ricers with the bold
white letters.
"Doc"
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9 Message:0009 9
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To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 18:05:06 -0600
Subject: INDY MOPAR/AMC MEET free passes
Message-ID: <20060228.181015.-16237211.0.NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx>
From: Jock J Jocewicz <namdra@xxxxxxxx>
I have (or will receive when I get there on Friday) 2 extra spectator
passes for the Indy Cylinder Head Chrysler/AMC Performance Trade Show &
Swap Meet, March 4-5, 2006. If anyone would like a free pass, please
email me. NAMDRA will have a 20' x 20' space there, so stop by and say
hello!
Jock Jocewicz - President/Editor NAMDRA NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx
8537 Antioch Rd., Salem, WI 53168 (262) 843-4326
JOIN NAMDRA, the best AMC club around!!!
'06 AMC NATIONALS - SEP. 14-16, 2006 - CORDOVA DRAGWAY PARK, CORDOVA, IL
AMO#19, NAMDRA#46, AMCRC#974, NHRA#41915, IHRA#6766
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10 Message:0010 10
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Message-Id: <5.2.0.9.2.20060228203313.0295cb90@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 20:54:49 -0500
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Jay's Wagner brakes
It seems like messages about Jay's brakes were flying fast today so instead
of replying to 50,000,000,000 emails, here's my two cents on the subject:
First, as far as usage goes, they were used on Americans in 1967 as well.
Both the parts book and service manual say they should be Bendix (no parts
catalog lists them for 67 either) but I have them for sure on my 67
American and have no reason to suspect they were swapped out. Second,
Wagner and Bendix parts don't even come close to interchanging. The backing
plate is different as are the wheel cylinders. I know this first hand
because I purchased Bendix parts for my 67 American so I had them on hand
to see that they were wrong. Third, I happen to like the Wagner setup
better than the Bendix setup on my 68 American. I'm sure that some of the
difference is due to the large difference in mileage between the two but
the Wagner set up seems to be smoother.
That aside, shoes and wheel cylinders are special order (they are for
Bendix as well) so those fall into the category of no big deal to get.
Drums are the same and also not hard to find. What you can't get from a
regular auto parts store is any of the hardware or self adjuster parts. I
needed new hold down hardware and return springs for my car and I was able
to get them from a Volvo parts dealer called Swedish Treasures
(http://www.swedishtreasures.com). The spring kit is part number 25290 (the
spring that holds the shows together at the bottom is different than the
one in the kit but the return springs work) and the hold down kit is
659663(64)-1. You'll need two of each. I'm told that you can still get the
hold down kit from Volvo but it's an "improved" design that really isn't.
Other hardware is out there (I found an International site that had self
adjuster kits for some of the wheels). Besides Volvo and International,
some Studebaker's used the same set up. It's simply a matter of checking
with vendors for those makes to find what you need.
Also, you need to make sure that the resting block for the shoes moves
freely (CVI Automotive out of Sweden sells new ones and self adjuster
kits). Some of mine were really frozen and it took lots of effort to free
them up.
Matt
mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
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11 Message:0011 11
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Message-ID: <006301c63cd4$4358bc60$019b1ecf@Ciampi>
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Jay's Wagner brakes
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 21:02:56 -0500
Well Matt, I have decided to stay with the Wagners as I said earlier.
Thanks for the parts sources. I may have to use them.
Jay
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Haas" <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:54 PM
Subject: Jay's Wagner brakes
> It seems like messages about Jay's brakes were flying fast today so
> instead of replying to 50,000,000,000 emails, here's my two cents on the
> subject:
>
> First, as far as usage goes, they were used on Americans in 1967 as well.
> Both the parts book and service manual say they should be Bendix (no parts
> catalog lists them for 67 either) but I have them for sure on my 67
> American and have no reason to suspect they were swapped out. Second,
> Wagner and Bendix parts don't even come close to interchanging. The
> backing plate is different as are the wheel cylinders. I know this first
> hand because I purchased Bendix parts for my 67 American so I had them on
> hand to see that they were wrong. Third, I happen to like the Wagner setup
> better than the Bendix setup on my 68 American. I'm sure that some of the
> difference is due to the large difference in mileage between the two but
> the Wagner set up seems to be smoother.
>
> That aside, shoes and wheel cylinders are special order (they are for
> Bendix as well) so those fall into the category of no big deal to get.
> Drums are the same and also not hard to find. What you can't get from a
> regular auto parts store is any of the hardware or self adjuster parts. I
> needed new hold down hardware and return springs for my car and I was able
> to get them from a Volvo parts dealer called Swedish Treasures
> (http://www.swedishtreasures.com). The spring kit is part number 25290
> (the spring that holds the shows together at the bottom is different than
> the one in the kit but the return springs work) and the hold down kit is
> 659663(64)-1. You'll need two of each. I'm told that you can still get the
> hold down kit from Volvo but it's an "improved" design that really isn't.
> Other hardware is out there (I found an International site that had self
> adjuster kits for some of the wheels). Besides Volvo and International,
> some Studebaker's used the same set up. It's simply a matter of checking
> with vendors for those makes to find what you need.
>
> Also, you need to make sure that the resting block for the shoes moves
> freely (CVI Automotive out of Sweden sells new ones and self adjuster
> kits). Some of mine were really frozen and it took lots of effort to free
> them up.
>
> Matt
>
> mhaas@xxxxxxx
> Cincinnati, OH
> http://www.mattsoldcars.com
> 1967 Rambler American wagon
> 1968 Rambler American sedan
> ===============================================================
> According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
> UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
> not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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12 Message:0012 12
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Message-ID: <1141179294.4405039e6d6b2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 2006 19:14:54 -0700
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: The Jig Is Up
How did the factory paint these things? Surely they didn't spent all that time
masking each one.
Ken Ames
39Master85w.partscar,67Marlin,68AMX,70Machine,73Matador2drht,73Hornet4dsd,
73-74-75-76GremlinXs,75PacerX,76Hornet2dsd,77Matadorcpe,2-77AMXs,78AMX,
78Gremlin,78GremlinGT,79Concordhb,79PacerDL8,2-79AMXs,2-80AMXs,
2-80SpiritDL,80Eagle4dsdn,2-81SX4s,81SpiritGT,81Concord4dsd,82Eaglesw,
2-85Eaglesw,80J20,85J10,89Sentra4dsd (38)
AMCA = http://clubs.hemmings.com/amcalberta/
Quoting "Mr. AMC" <AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx>:
> Since it barely got over 20 degrees here today I spent the day in the
> house. The first headlight door had baked in my dehydrator for 24 hours
> after being painted with flat black yesterday so I masked it off and
> scuffed it down and painted the silver. Picture this, it took 5 hours to
> scuff and mask and paint 1 headlight door!!! What a PIA to mask it up
> just to paint the silver. The silver wheel color I chose from Eastwood
> looks almost factory. It is now back in the dehydrator drying till
> tomorrow. I have to knock the edge off the silver where it meets the
> flat black with 1000# sandpaper and clean up 3 very small spots of over
> spray and it will be ready for the semi-gloss clear coat. I should have
> both of them done by sunday. Next week it will be the grills turn to
> have the silver done. I am not looking forward to doing that but job. It
> may take a week or two plus. Anyhow the car goes to get the windows
> tinted a light smoke tomorrow. That should look nice with the orange
> body color.
> "Doc"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
End of digest for 28 Feb 2006, hour 18:00
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