AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 21
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 21
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- Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 12:00:01 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. IM HOME FROM IRAQ!!! (dan whitehead)
2. Re: Disc rear interchanges/Was/Re: speaking of carburetors
( Russell T. Neyhart)
3. Numb3rs (Mahoney, John)
4. Re: 59 Rambler (Jay)
5. '61 Original original "retail price label" (Michael Pell)
6. Re: Numb3rs (Tom Jennings)
7. Re: welding an axle (Mark Price)
8. Re: Discs/ Was/ IM HOME FROM IRAQ!!! (Mark Price)
9. Re: combination valve (Mark Price)
10. List No#'S, Post's And So On (Mr. AMC)
11. Re: '61 Original original "retail price label" (Tom Jennings)
12. Re; '61 Original original "retail price label" (John Elle)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:57:46 +0000
From: "dan whitehead" <freebird_58@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] IM HOME FROM IRAQ!!!
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY111-F38C412E8488448418042C694F10@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Welcome home Dave,
Thanks for what you've done and I'm sure you'll enjoy what you have.
Dan Whitehead
_________________________________________________________________
Stay in touch with old friends and meet new ones with Windows Live Spaces
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwsp0070000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://spaces.live.com/spacesapi.aspx?wx_action=create&wx_url=/friends.aspx&mkt=en-us
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 16:57:27 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
From: " Russell T. Neyhart" <rtneyhart@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Disc rear interchanges/Was/Re: speaking of
carburetors
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<23928616.1163023048145.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
I'm not sure what this is the answer "A:" to... I was just stating what wheels fit on my Eagle in regard to bolt pattern and offset although I didn't make that clear. I'm not clear as to how the position the leaf springs (over or under the axle) would affect the position of the wheels where flares would make a difference.
Russell
-----Original Message-----
>From: Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Sent: Nov 8, 2006 11:19 AM
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Disc rear interchanges/Was/Re: speaking of carburetors
>
>A: The Eagle has fender flares and it's sprung over in the back so XJ wheels
>fit fine. '82 Spirit is sprung under.
>
>
>From: Russell Neyhart <rtneyhart@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Disc rear interchanges/Was/Re: speaking
>of
> carburetors
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <4551AF87.7040907@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
>After I bought my Eagle, I wanted a set of steel rims for snow
>tires,
>and a set of wider alloy rims for all-season tires. The steel
>rims I
>bought were from the Tire Rack for a Wrangler or Cherokee. The
>alloys I
>bought were from a Cherokee or Grand Cherokee. The rear axle's
>spindles
>stuck out of the center of the wheels by 1 to 1-1/4". I had
>1-1/2"
>spacers custom made. Pictures of the wheels on the car (before
>and
>after spacers) can be seen here:
>http://home.earthlink.net/~rtneyhart/
>
>Regards,
>
>Russell Neyhart
>1988 Eagle Wagon
>Stroudsburg, Pa.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Add a Yahoo! contact to Windows Live Messenger for a chance to win a free
>trip!
>http://www.imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/yahoo/default.aspx?locale=en-us&hmtagline
>
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>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:51:58 -0500
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Numb3rs
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<BFF496024CD8E8499845576906CA0F190D2FEF@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
611 AMC listers? Wasn't it ~750 at the last report? I remember when there were 1200!
Only 10% seem to do the heavy lifting. Wonder where AMC's going? Or where it's gone?
>>number of 79/80 Pacer Wagon Limited that were produced
Without an archeological expedition, off the top of my head, I think only about 2000 (of 7352) '79 Pacer Limited wagons were built; fewer than 600 of them with 304s. The actual number of '80 Limited wagons (of 1341 wagons sold) may be unknown.
>>
" There's no way in bloody fubar that a Furd v8 is half the weight
" of any other v8 motor, ay em cee or otherwise. It's a baseless
" argument-starting falsehood.
i agreee, mostly. the amc and small ford v8s aren't that far apart in
weight, maybe 50 lbs.
brace yourself. from the late '60s, the buick 350 is down below 500
lbs dressed, whereas the iron-head 426 hemi is nearly 850. afaik
these are the extremes. [btw buick also had the lightest big block]
there is ~100 lbs difference between sbc and bbc, ~550 and ~650 lbs.
likewise between the small ford v8 and 429/460. the fe weighs ~750,
the chevy stovebolt 6 does too, and so does the gm 6.2/6.5 diesel.
<<
>>
The discussion of engine weight needs a little adjustment. The AMC 390 is about 85-100 lbs lighter than engines such as the 396, 389 & 428. The 390 & 401 are heavier than 290-360 due to much heavier webbing. The small block Ford is much lighter than a big block Ford and could be significantly lighter than even a 304; but not by 50%. Cleveland engines and the 351 windsor are heavier than 221-260-289-302 engines but still lighter than FE or 385 Ford; The 385 is heavier than the FE. To my knowledge, the 426 hemi cylinder head weighs as much as two AMC heads. Buick small blocks are about 50 lbs lighter than an sbc and they are notorious for cracks in the block and head. The only advantage a 302 ford could have, besides being slightly lighter than a 304-360, is the roller lifter tappet found in later model blocks and the availabilty of FI. Even so, the 360 has 20% more displacement and the stock dogleg head is better than any stock sbf head with the exception of the Boss / Clevel!
and head.
When people insist that Ford made the 390 or that Mopar made the 360, I respond with: "that's why AMCs are so slow!"; Do not make this statement unless one is beyond the reach of the idiot.
Seth Gordon
68 AMX; 390-4spd w/Rally Pac
<<
(Why was this linked, not posted? It wasn't a real attachment and it was really hard --- all stretched out in one line of text --- to read.)
Ford F/J/G 302s weighed 475 lbs; the "Boss" G was 25 lbs heavier due to its larger Cleveland heads (and the 351 Cleveland "Boss" weighed 550.) A "generic" '60s-'70s Chevy SB weighed ~575; big block Marks weighed ~620 to nearly 690*, but AMC Gen-3s weighed as little as 540 --- down from Kenosha's first ['56] V-8 of 601 lbs. While Buick's "little" 350 weighed only 450 lbs, Rover's [ex-Buick] 3.5L V-8 weighed as little as 320 --- 45 more than Vega's also-aluminum I-4!
(*so the ZL-1 weighed 100+ lbs fewer...)
http://www.firstgen.com/traco-ing.htm
The 304/302 thing brings to mind a wonderful --- albeit long: too long for anyone here to want to read --- 40-years-ago-this-coming-week tale involving Ford and AMC. If there's time, I'll type it; if not, well, that's the way it goes with AMC. Don't you wish you had an All-AMC-Clubs magazine that every AMC fan wanted to buy, study, and keep?
>>
you can build a twin turbo AMC six for about the same price
as the Supra engine, and would be a lot easier to install!
And if you know where to look, you can build it in a body built to look like what AMC could have sold. I can't understand why AMC fans haven't done that yet. I can't understand why AMC has built so few "replicars" still.
>>
Mine shows no signs that it's been taken off, yet I've seen
pictures of same year and model with the trim. Anyone know the
story behind this, was it a package back then?
http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b12/johnnyzoom/ramblerstart.jpg
the "plain jane" models usually had no side trim. I believe the
trim levels were "Deluxe" (no side trim), "Super" (some side trim), and
"Custom" (a little more trim). Of course trim in the interiors went up
with the levels. Note that I may have "Super" and "Custom" in reverse
order -- going from memory here! I do know that the "Deluxe" was
anything but -- it was the base model.
<<
One-on-one answers are fine and dandy, but what about the big auto show?
Consult the manufacturer's original documentation; get the answers fast.
It's too bad AMC fans can't COOPERATE on scanning; there's a better way.
Go to the horse's mouth: not the horse's, well, you know. Will the AMC hobby EVER get off its, well, you know, to make the most of its talent and resources by pooling both to accomplish something really great? Why isn't this sort of info
http://mclellansautomotive.com/photos/B16245.jpg
http://mclellansautomotive.com/photos/H1307.jpg
http://mclellansautomotive.com/photos/H1307-2.jpg
http://www.plan59.com/wagons/wagons067.htm
http://www.plan59.com/wagons/wagons065.htm
organized a click away on an -AMC- website?
Or is that as secret as AMC engine weights?
http://www.matadorcoupe.com/enginespecs.htm
It's almost 2007. What are you waiting for?
AMC to be a -HUNDRED- and twenty years dead?
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:34:37 -0500
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 59 Rambler
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <00a301c70396$d6df61d0$32c41ecf@Ciampi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
How much for the radio? That's all I want.
Jay
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 19:46:03 -0500
From: Michael Pell <mjpell@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] '61 Original original "retail price label"
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <45527A4B.3020604@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Who wants to see an original "retail price label" for a '61 Wagon?
:-))))))
See it here: http://www.indianachevelles.com/pellwagon.html (scroll
to the bottom).
The original dealer is (was) only about 20 miles from where I live.
--
I would rather live my life as if there is a God, and die to find out there isn't, Than live my
life as if there isn't, And die to find out there is. -Blaise Pascal
Check out my webpage at http://www.ProStreetCar.com
TREMEC Distributor at http://www.5speedTransmissions.com
Team Chevelle member #1778 (Gold), ACES member #1377
Hoosier State Chevelle Assoc (http://www.IndianaChevelles.com) #6
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.13.32/523 - Release Date: 11/7/2006
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 17:32:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Numb3rs
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611081727360.26983@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Mahoney, John wrote:
> 611 AMC listers? Wasn't it ~750 at the last report?
> I remember when there were 1200!
Yes and no... there were 1200 or so email addresses in the
list, back when it was on Jim's site, but 600+ of them were
dead addresses -- undeliverable, non-existent, etc. The new software
actually prunes the list of deaders, notifies people of problems
automatically, etc.
In fact, if you recall, after the switchover, we actually
gained BACK members that for whatever reason weren't getting
mail from the old system (it would occasionally forget to send
you postings).
> Only 10% seem to do the heavy lifting. Wonder where AMC's going? Or where it's gone?
That 10% or so active participation is like Planck's Constant;
consistent across the known email universe, all lists all
subjects, since time immemorial (early 1980's :-)
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:05:43 -0800
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] welding an axle
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <21291319.1163041543458.JavaMail.root@web28>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I've got no real idea of which post you are referring to, but I for one would never have this done! I'd rather spin a hub than have the end snap off due to it having been welded on.
I would either buy one piece axles or double keyway it and torque it to spec.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- russ hathaway <russh97309@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> If the car is going to be used for performance welding
> the hub is piece of cake for someone who knows what
> they are doing, it isn't anything mysterious. Any
> reputable performance shop or 4x4 shop can do it. If
> they even balk at the job, walk to someone else.
> I had mine done some years ago and it is peace of
> mind.
> Going the one piece axle route is best, of course, but
> Jeepers have been welding the hubs for years.....Russ
>
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Music Unlimited
> Access over 1 million songs.
> http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
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> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:25:00 -0800
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Discs/ Was/ IM HOME FROM IRAQ!!!
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <28719990.1163042700249.JavaMail.root@web28>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Rock Auto is the best source for these that I've found.
I just bought a set for my 97 XJ. I kept the take offs as they will resurface to minimum spec and that will suffice for a rear application! I was thinking of setting them up on the 97, but those darned drum brakes are in too good a shape to mess with, so I'm thinking of maybe building up my spare 3:31 AMC 15 with discs for the American. Maybe test out some of those bolt on Caliper brackets for stock cars. I will need to shim the housing up to 3" though so not sure if I'll use the bolt ons or just get weld ons. I like the idea of the bolt on though as it would back up the welds.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Sandwich Maker <adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> " From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
> "
> " []
> "
> " so anyway. i think it was frank who mentioned the idea of
> " popping the hub off the front drum and finding a rotor that
> " would slip right over it and fabricating my own caliper mount. i
> " have a mustang II disk brake kit. the rotors/hubs will not fit
> " on my spindles. the bearings are all different and they are set
> " in about 1.5" to far. so i think im going to find a rotor that
> " will actually slip over my hub and modify my mustang II caliper
> " mounts. see how well all this turns out. i plan to let everyone
> " know what rotors i found that fit, and what i have to do to the
> " caliper mounts to make them fit when i get it all done.
> " hopefully it turns out nice.
>
>
> " From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
> "
> " A: Go try early XJ/Eagle rotors.
>
> as well as eagles these were used on all 2wd and 4wd mj, xj, and yj
> before '90. after that 2wd got a 1-piece hub/rotor, but they still
> use the same #6/#2 bearings as amc.
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Andrew Hay the genius nature
> internet rambler is to see what all have seen
> adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 19:28:59 -0800
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] combination valve
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5996496.1163042939837.JavaMail.root@web28>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
If they are all new did you adjust them ?
To loose is as bad as to tight, it allows the shoes to twist and lock the rear brakes.
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Wayne E LaMothe <superglider@xxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I am trying to trace a problem in the brakes on my 83 Eagle. I am
> getting premature (very) rear wheel lockup when braking. EVERYTHING but
> the combo valve is new. My questions are these:
>
> 1. Is this a bendix or kelsey hayes valve?
>
> 2. Is there a centering pin? There seems to be but it does not move so
> I think it is sending all the braking to the rear wheels.
>
> Can anyone shed some light on this?
>
> Thanks
> Wayne
>
> Wayne & Lisa (Skeezix), Bolton Landing, NY,
> http://www.superglider.thinkhost.com/
> AMO#8454, 83 Eagle Limited Wagon, 82 SX/4, 258 auto
> 69 Ambo coupe, 401, M12, 66 Ambo 990 Wagon, 327,PW,PB,PS,posi,AM/FM,AC
> 88 Jeep J10 360, auto- a Real truck
> 2001 Cherokee, 2000 Chrysler Cirrus (both hers)
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 22:34:21 -0500
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: [AMC-List] List No#'S, Post's And So On
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <18096-4552A1BD-496@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
I figured no one would be interested in the JC Whitney Aouga Horn my
father put in his new 69 Rebel that I have had in every one of my second
cars since I bought that POS from him in 72 with 19,000 miles and dumped
it in 74 with 38,000 miles going on the second aluminum warner tranny
re-rebuild (3'rd for the car) for the new yellow Hornet I still drive. I
needed to shorten the snout on the horn so the billet washer tank I
modified could fit in my orange Hornet and make it look like new and was
alway's there with the horn. Sorry the 3 year project is winding down to
small things. Thanks to all here and at Bart's group for all the help
with parts and advice.
"Doc"
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 21:53:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] '61 Original original "retail price label"
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0611082152450.13202@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Wed, 8 Nov 2006, Michael Pell wrote:
> Who wants to see an original "retail price label" for a '61 Wagon?
> :-))))))
> See it here: http://www.indianachevelles.com/pellwagon.html (scroll
> to the bottom).
>
> The original dealer is (was) only about 20 miles from where I live.
$4 for antifreeze?!
I dunno, that's awful 'spensive... :-)
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 04:19:21 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Re; '61 Original original "retail price label"
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000701c703f0$eb8959b0$40de0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Looking at the following
Snip
Who wants to see an original "retail price label" for a '61 Wagon?
See it here: <http://www.indianachevelles.com/pellwagon.html>
http://www.indianachevelles.com/pellwagon.html (scroll
to the bottom).
Snip
Reminds me of some of the automotive infrastructure of the time as the
industry as it existed then as it experimented with aluminum engines and
parts such as cylinder heads etc. and for the most part proved to be a
short term failure. Not so much as the technology or design was bad but
the engines were prone to over heating problems after a bit of time and
related types of failures including blown head gaskets etc.
The retail price label makes a point of adding "anti-freeze" to the
option list. Think about that one for a minute. This is something that
you would expect to see in your cooling system today. However in 1961 is
was quite common to just run straight water if you did not live in an
environment that did not include winter freezing weather. In fact in an
area of the south that I lived in at that time during the summer months
anti-freeze was not available in the auto parts stores at all. At that
time I owned a French car with an aluminum cylinder head that I blew the
water pump gasket out of racing a Jaguar. Upon getting the car back home
and making the repair I was unable to purchase anti-freeze to refill the
radiator so reverting to common practice of the area I just used water.
Why not? Everyone else did. "sides I had never heard of electrolysis
before and I knew when I got back north I could get a gallon of
Prestone.
However about 6 months later I started having overheating problems as
the interaction between the aluminum head and the cast iron block caused
the radiator to plug up causing the overheating problems.
Of course now it was winter weather time and after boiling out the
radiator I was able to purchase a gallon of Anti-Freeze at a Christmas
Sale or something of that nature.
No wonder aluminum engines or heads got bad press.
Of course the other thing to do is to compare the retail price list to
what is on car windows now as we read the saga of how much smog
equipment is installed as "Standard" equipment, as if I really cared or
how it is equipped with things such as steering wheels, seats and tires
and other basically essential items we have taken for granted that
"must" be present on a car in order to consider buying it.
My! How the automotive world has changed, both for what is offered and
our expectations of what we get.
Some good, some bad and an awful lot just ridiculous.
John.
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 21
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