[AMC-List] How to sell a car:

["Mike Kindle" <mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

>From: amc-list-request@xxxxxxx
>Reply-To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 36
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:05:39 +0000
>
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>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Air Cooled Transmissions (Tom Jennings)
>    2. Re: Strut rods '70 and up, probably more than you wanted to
>       know. (Tom Jennings)
>    3. Re: Diary of a crippled white man update (Tom Jennings)
>    4. Re: Air Cooled Transmissions (Tom Jennings)
>    5. Re: Air Cooled Transmissions (Mark Price)
>    6. Re: 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille! (PSchambs@xxxxxxx)
>    7. Show (Mahoney, John)
>    8. Re: AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. (dan whitehead)
>    9. Fw: 71 HORNET BRAKE PROBLEM (Eddie Stakes)
>   10. Power steering (Ray Mick)
>   11. some amc auctions (Teamamc)
>   12. AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored (Brien Tourville)
>   13. Re: AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored (amckiwi)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Air Cooled Transmissions
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608181153300.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
>
> > For what it's worth.
> > It seems to me this subject came up here locally a couple of years ago
> > and the general consensus was that air cooled transmissions actually had
> > pipe plug capped fittings that you could unscrew the pipe plugs from and
> > screw in lines that could be run to an external cooler if you wanted to
> > go through that work.
> > I have been wracking my brains trying to be more specific but senior
> > moments seem to clog up the thought process.
>o> Is there any truth to this?
>
>I've got one out layin on the ground! (1970 M35.) I'll go look!
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:03:41 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Strut rods '70 and up, probably more than you
>	wanted to know.
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608181158100.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
>
> > I have taken a serious look at the 70+ lower control arm. It is a really
> > cheesy looking design. In stripping parts cars out for donor pieces the
> > lower control arms will have some creative and serious damage to them. A
> > lot of the damage comes from advanced neglect. However the upper control
> > arms seem to get by that o.k.
>
>Strut bushings failing does this. The lower arm is weak as you
>say; stamped sheet arm with single bushing, but if the strut
>bushing is perfect nearly no force is delivered to that lower,
>inner bushing. But when the strut bushing goes bad, the inner
>bushing gets LOTS of off-axis torque, eats the bushing, cracks
>the arm, etc. VERY BAD!
>
> > My gut feeling is that a significant portion of strut rod bushing
> > problems is caused by excessive wear and tear of the lower control arm
> > and or well intentioned  efforts to re-enforce the pivot point of the
> > lower control arm causing the arm it self to bend and probably
> > aggravated by the installation of polyurethane bushings.
>
>I agree with your observations, but I think cause and effect are
>reversed here (though lack of maintenance is ruinous anywhere,
>esp. 40 year old suspensions!).
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Diary of a crippled white man update
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608181205310.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, Mark Price wrote:
>
> > Subject: [AMC-List] Diary of a crippled white man update
>
>Good luck with the surgery! I will try to appreciate my
>comfortable routines... :-)
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Air Cooled Transmissions
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608181217350.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, Tom Jennings wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
> >
> > > It seems to me this subject came up here locally a couple of years ago
> > > and the general consensus was that air cooled transmissions actually 
>had
> > > pipe plug capped fittings that you could unscrew the pipe plugs from 
>and
> > > screw in lines that could be run to an external cooler if you wanted 
>to
> > > go through that work.
> > > I have been wracking my brains trying to be more specific but senior
> > > moments seem to clog up the thought process.
> > o> Is there any truth to this?
> >
>You can see for yourself here:
>
>http://.wps.com/temp/M35-left.jpg
>http://.wps.com/temp/M35-right.jpg
>
>Well, there is one boss on the right side I cannot identify,
>and it *might* be drillable. Someone less lazy than me will
>have to locate this boss in a TSM to see what's behind it.
>
>Even if, there's clearly no return, though I suppose you
>could dump into the dipstick tube, though it's adjacent to the
>mystery boss.
>
>In 1989,I asked my brain surgeon (aka Bill from B & E
>Transmissions, San Francisco) about modding my trans, he said
>it migt be possible, but errors would be fatal, and I didn't
>have a spare core.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:50:57 -0700
>From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Air Cooled Transmissions
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <26666928.1155930657687.JavaMail.root@web28>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>The return is not the problem it can be dumped into the pan almost 
>anywhere.
>I have a couple of cores that coujld be experimented with easily, alas, I 
>have no urge to do so! Anyone want one or two?
>--
>Mark Price
>markprice242ATadelphia.net
>Morgantown, WV
>
>
>---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, Tom Jennings wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
> > >
> > > > It seems to me this subject came up here locally a couple of years 
>ago
> > > > and the general consensus was that air cooled transmissions actually 
>had
> > > > pipe plug capped fittings that you could unscrew the pipe plugs from 
>and
> > > > screw in lines that could be run to an external cooler if you wanted 
>to
> > > > go through that work.
> > > > I have been wracking my brains trying to be more specific but senior
> > > > moments seem to clog up the thought process.
> > > o> Is there any truth to this?
> > >
> > You can see for yourself here:
> >
> > http://.wps.com/temp/M35-left.jpg
> > http://.wps.com/temp/M35-right.jpg
> >
> > Well, there is one boss on the right side I cannot identify,
> > and it *might* be drillable. Someone less lazy than me will
> > have to locate this boss in a TSM to see what's behind it.
> >
> > Even if, there's clearly no return, though I suppose you
> > could dump into the dipstick tube, though it's adjacent to the
> > mystery boss.
> >
> > In 1989,I asked my brain surgeon (aka Bill from B & E
> > Transmissions, San Francisco) about modding my trans, he said
> > it migt be possible, but errors would be fatal, and I didn't
> > have a spare core.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AMC-List mailing list
> > AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> >
> > or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:02:54 EDT
>From: PSchambs@xxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille!
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <c85.1562ef.321776ee@xxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Desperation is rapidly setting in - the car will be repainted; engine  and
>upholstery rebuilt and no front grille!
>Somebody please help - NOS? ; A grille in any half way decent condition?
>This will be impossible to show without a stock front 
>grille.............Thanks
>- hopefully -
>
>Pete  Schambs
>_pschambs@xxxxxxxx (mailto:pschambs@xxxxxxx)
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:59:50 -0400
>From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] Show
>To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Message-ID:
>	<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A02202C4D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>I was in NY earlier this week and owe Frank (plus others?) a correction.  A 
>2006 Wollman Rink show appears to be a no go.  A Lincoln Center show?  Ho 
>ho ho.
>
>Go loco.  Or, rather, go local.
>
>"On August 19, a Mopar Only Show 'n Shine stock and hotrod car and truck 
>show will be held at Barry Dodge on Main Street in Brockport NY." the blurb 
>reads.  What?  "AMC and all related makes are also welcome!" is the 
>reality.
>
>http://www.cgazette.com/common/news/2005/Aug05news/1124389382410.html
>
>Don't confuse Mora of Newark with DiMora of Rochester in Palm Springs.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/ffmyu
>
>Much more should be said.
>
>Lots of auction action between now and snowfall.  Interesting results.
>
>Is a '36 V-12 Packard worth just two '66 Olds Toronados?  Is a '66 GTO more 
>valuable than a '58 Turnpike Cruiser --- if both are 2-dr htps?
>Is a '32 Pierce-Arrow (once owned by Pitt Petri [store owner, not lab 
>vessel] of Buffalo) no more special than a '50 [post] Ford?  Is a Nash 
>Ambassador worth $13,000 or $103,000.  Dunno.  That's the way it goes.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/lcuz2
>
> >>
>...should I remove the engine to detail and paint, or leave in the
>engine bay and clean and detail only(leaving the original "patina")?
><<
>
>Preserved cars rule.
>
>As time will prove.
>
>Gotta go.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:46:35 +0000
>From: "dan whitehead" <freebird_58@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs.
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <BAY111-F197F60E92D94E7D0F2A85694420@xxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>Unless there's rust issues to deal with, or as stated, you want the 
>trophies
>I'd leave it original.  Even with all the dings, scrapes, and rust on my
>Donohue, when in Daytona in 2000 I was parked next to Ashmeads Donohue.  
>The
>gentleman that did the restoration told a guy to look at my car when 
>talking
>about originality in the engine compartment.  Made me feel pretty good.
>It's your car, if you want original, race, pro touring, whatever it's your
>decision in the end.  But unless there are issues I wouldn't touch it.
>
>Dan Whitehead
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:57:04 -0500
>From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] Fw: 71 HORNET BRAKE PROBLEM
>To: <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Cc: PHILBERTAMC@xxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <004901c6c33b$2afbf540$0ff4b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Anyone wishing to help Phil out please feel free to comment and also please 
>copy your reply to him down below,thanks to those who might assist,
>Eddie Stakes'
>Planet Houston AMX
>713.464.8825
>eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>www.planethoustonamx.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: PHIL & ROBERTA CLIFTON       PHILBERTAMC@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
>EDDIE,
>
>I SPOKE WITH YOU WED. NIGHT ABOUT MY 71 HORNET.  THIS HORNET HAS A 401 IN 
>IT.  IT HAS POWER DISC BRAKES.  BUT, AS I MENTION TO YOU THE BRAKE DOES NOT 
>OPERATE CORRECTLY.  IT HAS A HARD BRAKE PEDAL.  I KNOW THERE WOULD NOT BE 
>ENOUGH ROOM TO INSTALL A DUAL DIAFRAM (NOT SURE OF THE SPELLING) BOOSTER.  
>SHOULD I PUT STANDARD DISC BRAKES ON THE HORNET INSTEAD OF POWER DISC 
>BRAKES? WHAT WOULD BE YOUR SUGGEST HAS TO HOW I CAN SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?
>
>THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE.
>PLEASE EMAIL ME AT: PHILBERTAMC@xxxxxxxxx
>
>PHIL
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:01:51 -0500
>From: Ray Mick <rmick@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] Power steering
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <7C3B7637-2B14-4180-B155-49BAADB053FD@xxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>My power steering box is leaking  at the pitman arm shaft. Thinking
>about installing one of the quick ratio 12:1 units on my 72 Javelin/
>AMX. Has anyone had any experience with one of these units? How much
>better is the road fill? Or the variable ratio unit ?
>
>Ray Mick
>Somewhere in Kansas
>"The older I get the faster I was"
>72 Javelin/AMX
>72 Javelin R/W/B SST
>71 Javelin
>See my Javelin @
>http://community.webshots.com/album/54361408pRyvWE
>
>My RWB Javelin@ http://members.cox.net/jvlnnut/Site/My%20Space.html
>
>Mid America AMC
>www.midamericaamc.com
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:37:55 -0600
>From: Teamamc <Teamamc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] some amc auctions
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <004b01c6c351$9f0d15c0$6700a8c0@FAST>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQsassZmrsamcQQhtZ-1
>If the link does not work you  can search under MRSAMC
>
>Seatbelts
>tilt steering
>wiring harness
>71 hornet rocker chrome
>67 rebel electric wiper setup
>hornet gremlin kick panels
>lots more
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 12
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 02:30:09 -0400
>From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored
>To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <44E677B1.25810.36FD4D7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>
>
>  Fellow AMCer's,
>
>I have decision to make with my 74 AMX(32,000 original miles):
>This car is an original, non-restored, survivor:  Original
>paint(great
>condition), glass, interior, chrome, stainless, exhaust system.  The
>motor
>and tranny have never been separated and removed.
>
>My decision:
>
>should I
>remove the engine to detail and paint, or leave in the engine bay and
>clean and detail only(leaving the original "patina")? I cannot
>compete
>with frame-off, rotisserie restored stock vehicles at car shows. If
>they
>had a vintage/survivor class I would do well.
>
>I welcome your feedback/opinions!
>
>Thanks,
>mark
>
>
>
>
>== =          ===
>
>
>
>The 'Restored' Camp is inherently fuel'd by
>Cubic Dollars with a smidgen of ego* -
>[ Egos' with a 'small' E ] :
>
>Fiscally capable folks who are genuinely nice
>people - who with time on their hands, undertake
>a project as a couple, a widower or single - who
>remember cars of their youth & have discovered
>the world of restoration, clubs and camaraderie...
>and some well monied snobs who stick it to each
>other good naturedly - you know who you are.....
>
>I could crave to be of this 'niche'  -  puttering in a well
>lit - well equipped bay, listening to 'Alice in Chains'
>while pondering recasting NASH
>hood ornaments in Crystal glass for my List friends
>X-mass presents...... from the Original FactoryMolds ! ;)
>
>These days it only takes one evening of enjoying the
>Barrett - Jackson Auctions and the escalating price of
>Cat Food, to bring home the realities
>of modern day 'Restored' efforts / costs - serving to reaffirm
>the salvage yard blood flowing in my veins -
>and my 'Run what you Brung' appreciation of a JC Whitney
>'fast' heap of bubbling primer - 'the mythical street killah..'.....
>...."whos' gotta 'lite'...smoke ....."?
>
>
>
>To digress:
>
>A 'Survivor' or 'Street Survivor' ride runs parallel to
>my years of being a musician, as Amps and Guitars
>that have seen the ravages of playing, the intimacy of
>  practising - spilled drinks and smoky treat ciggy
>burns  along the peg heads of Clubs and Travel,
>all have spawned an industry
>of manufacturing  'Closet Classics' and D'istressed
>Classics' that boggle the mind -
>
>
>Fender Guitars actually pays people salary to judiciously steel wool
>off and expertly bang up, expensive Nitro Cellulose finishes
>on CNC recreation '57 Stratocasters - all dimensions captured
>from a 'Pristine' surviving specimen - bought with
>huge Corporate funds, mostly from Asian collectors
>who knew the market early & rolled in tractor trailers
>'en mass to the Guitar Conventions and wrote out
>blank checks for entire collections on the spot.
>
>These 'Originals' are kept in climate controlled caverns
>filled with hundreds and thousands of Old Guitars and Amps,
>privately owned - now in Asia somewhere.
>
>The 'New' banged up guitars go for 'in the thousands' more than a
>brand new 'a thousand plus' Strat on the wall, both of which pale
>in price but not actuality - against the $250K Original 1957
>Stratocaster.
>
>One bts MARSHALL filthy amp head I discovered in an overstocked
>used equipment shop was missing most all internals and
>knobs, yet was a 'Plexi' 100 watt from the early 60s' -
>a V'eteran' ! ...'dude, .....it's 'Old Home Week' ..... *Nice* ;)
>
>'Plexi' means the front MARSHALL logo of Plexi-Glas -
>putting its' age in a certain 'Romanticised' year range,
>like when Hendrix roamed Houston St. nite spots in
>the Village  of NYC.
>
>The grunge'd Tolex covering was worn out everywhere,  exposing
>the Birch laminated finger jointed plywood construction -
>everything in 'mutha beautiful'tatters :
>
>- it was so beat - that any musician having
>gone thru the Clubs immediately 'connected' heart & soul..
>..."see? ..still smell like 'Bud' ......"...... .
>
>- any viewing 'wannabee' needed a change of fresh shorts
>from the massive 'Boost' of 'the real deal' -
>
>I secretly knew ..... that THIS was the Grail Trophy - the Icon
>of Concert Survivorism - and so did the shop > $three grand
>for the beat up box.
>
>OK - back to cars:
>
>Outside of Bloomington Gold Corvette Circles
>and the Great Barrett - Jackson Vacuum Cleaning
>Service Top 10 - some Car Clubs do feature a 'Survivor' and
>'Street Survivor' Class and AMC should without question -
>
>I mean , ... come on > an Orphan ?  Surviving examples
>in good shape - unrestored specimens - should not Exist
>as these were from 'the disposable' era of Automotive Excess !
>
>'Survivor' would have that 30something K mileage
>Jav next to a 00036.00 mile Jav next to a 21K mile
>'56 Packard Powered Nash Coupe - and the Crowd
>is way more Appreciative that these examples have
>'Made It' > just like they have all these years, without
>a 'FaceLift' or 'Tummy-Tuk' - just up and running in your face
>Survival.
>
>'Street Survivor' is the duct tape / bale-ing wire
>rides along side the early mods bts street racer that
>saw 'Q-Ship' service in and among the throngs
>of GTX / SS novas - 10pm @ 'Pappys' Puppy Palace'
>Friday Nite - the 'Showroom Ghosts' that sat outside the
>Car Port - all year long....... for decades.
>
>*[ for those just joining in, bts equates:  'Beat to Shit' ]
>
>
>Who here,..... would rather find / see an example of a
>favourite, in a dry barn where it was 'tucked away' many
>decades prior and lost or forgotten...?. . raise your mouse -
>
>Everyone at a Car Show would - including all the Trailer Queen
>addicts.
>
>The Survivors speak to the soul - untouched V'irgins' ........
>
>The first .jpg I stop at when surfing Club sites is the 'Barn Fresh'
>occupant atop that U-Haul - awaiting the bucket & hose - you With Me
>?
>
>
>I just got in my SMS samples for a '55 Nash Ambo the other day -
>we're talking 'oh my gosh' - these 50s people were on Acid !
>
>soooh *Tweaky Nice* - Art Deco Upholstery Fabric... ahh yeahh -
>dreams of junker to jewel once again....... life is good........
>sometimes..
>
>
>Big Money Restorations, perhaps simply from the fact that I'm down
>here in the 'Mosh Pit of Fiscally Garrotted  Brethren', thrills me
>back to being a car loving 10  year old,  that the 'Original
>Materials' of the day having been lovingly sought
>and applied - just like the Show-room car once was..... ahh.....
>damn...[sigh.....],,ooh...... the 'ambience' of real hair & cotton
>bolstering .......ever see Kaisers' 'Dragon-Hide' ?
>
>
>Stay 'Survivor Status' - these are the tru Concourse Winners -
>and should be recognized as such.
>
>
>All Listers should petition our AMC fractional amalgam conglomerate
>for 'Recognition' of Original Examples - unfettered -
>open a 'Survivor' Class Awards judging criteria debate,
>as this class would prove much more competetive in concept
>than is the bolt by bolt - mega buk  reconstruction throw down
>Platinum Plus Visa sak racing 'Restored' Class warfare trunnion set.
>
>
>I've found it is tougher to keep that nice 'Survivor' from rusting
>and fading than it is to Mag-y-ar the 'Hanger Queen' - ;)
>..... any Married Men here have a different Opinion ..... ?
>
>
>
>    milnersXcoupe
>       NEW YORK
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 13
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 18:05:28 +1000
>From: "amckiwi" <amckiwi@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs.
>	Restored
>To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Message-ID: <002a01c6c366$3ce94980$0200a8c0@tower>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1250"
>
>Survivor spins my wheels
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On Behalf
>Of Brien Tourville
>Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 4:30 PM
>To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored
>
>
>
>
>  Fellow AMCer's,
>
>I have decision to make with my 74 AMX(32,000 original miles):
>This car is an original, non-restored, survivor:  Original
>paint(great
>condition), glass, interior, chrome, stainless, exhaust system.  The
>motor
>and tranny have never been separated and removed.
>
>My decision:
>
>should I
>remove the engine to detail and paint, or leave in the engine bay and
>clean and detail only(leaving the original "patina")? I cannot
>compete
>with frame-off, rotisserie restored stock vehicles at car shows. If
>they
>had a vintage/survivor class I would do well.
>
>I welcome your feedback/opinions!
>
>Thanks,
>mark
>
>
>
>
>== =          ===
>
>
>
>The 'Restored' Camp is inherently fuel'd by
>Cubic Dollars with a smidgen of ego* -
>[ Egos' with a 'small' E ] :
>
>Fiscally capable folks who are genuinely nice
>people - who with time on their hands, undertake
>a project as a couple, a widower or single - who
>remember cars of their youth & have discovered
>the world of restoration, clubs and camaraderie...
>and some well monied snobs who stick it to each
>other good naturedly - you know who you are.....
>
>I could crave to be of this 'niche'  -  puttering in a well
>lit - well equipped bay, listening to 'Alice in Chains'
>while pondering recasting NASH
>hood ornaments in Crystal glass for my List friends
>X-mass presents...... from the Original FactoryMolds ! ;)
>
>These days it only takes one evening of enjoying the
>Barrett - Jackson Auctions and the escalating price of
>Cat Food, to bring home the realities
>of modern day 'Restored' efforts / costs - serving to reaffirm
>the salvage yard blood flowing in my veins -
>and my 'Run what you Brung' appreciation of a JC Whitney
>'fast' heap of bubbling primer - 'the mythical street killah..'.....
>...."whos' gotta 'lite'...smoke ....."?
>
>
>
>To digress:
>
>A 'Survivor' or 'Street Survivor' ride runs parallel to
>my years of being a musician, as Amps and Guitars
>that have seen the ravages of playing, the intimacy of
>  practising - spilled drinks and smoky treat ciggy
>burns  along the peg heads of Clubs and Travel,
>all have spawned an industry
>of manufacturing  'Closet Classics' and D'istressed
>Classics' that boggle the mind -
>
>
>Fender Guitars actually pays people salary to judiciously steel wool
>off and expertly bang up, expensive Nitro Cellulose finishes
>on CNC recreation '57 Stratocasters - all dimensions captured
>from a 'Pristine' surviving specimen - bought with
>huge Corporate funds, mostly from Asian collectors
>who knew the market early & rolled in tractor trailers
>'en mass to the Guitar Conventions and wrote out
>blank checks for entire collections on the spot.
>
>These 'Originals' are kept in climate controlled caverns
>filled with hundreds and thousands of Old Guitars and Amps,
>privately owned - now in Asia somewhere.
>
>The 'New' banged up guitars go for 'in the thousands' more than a
>brand new 'a thousand plus' Strat on the wall, both of which pale
>in price but not actuality - against the $250K Original 1957
>Stratocaster.
>
>One bts MARSHALL filthy amp head I discovered in an overstocked
>used equipment shop was missing most all internals and
>knobs, yet was a 'Plexi' 100 watt from the early 60s' -
>a V'eteran' ! ...'dude, .....it's 'Old Home Week' ..... *Nice* ;)
>
>'Plexi' means the front MARSHALL logo of Plexi-Glas -
>putting its' age in a certain 'Romanticised' year range,
>like when Hendrix roamed Houston St. nite spots in
>the Village  of NYC.
>
>The grunge'd Tolex covering was worn out everywhere,  exposing
>the Birch laminated finger jointed plywood construction -
>everything in 'mutha beautiful'tatters :
>
>- it was so beat - that any musician having
>gone thru the Clubs immediately 'connected' heart & soul..
>..."see? ..still smell like 'Bud' ......"...... .
>
>- any viewing 'wannabee' needed a change of fresh shorts
>from the massive 'Boost' of 'the real deal' -
>
>I secretly knew ..... that THIS was the Grail Trophy - the Icon
>of Concert Survivorism - and so did the shop > $three grand
>for the beat up box.
>
>OK - back to cars:
>
>Outside of Bloomington Gold Corvette Circles
>and the Great Barrett - Jackson Vacuum Cleaning
>Service Top 10 - some Car Clubs do feature a 'Survivor' and
>'Street Survivor' Class and AMC should without question -
>
>I mean , ... come on > an Orphan ?  Surviving examples
>in good shape - unrestored specimens - should not Exist
>as these were from 'the disposable' era of Automotive Excess !
>
>'Survivor' would have that 30something K mileage
>Jav next to a 00036.00 mile Jav next to a 21K mile
>'56 Packard Powered Nash Coupe - and the Crowd
>is way more Appreciative that these examples have
>'Made It' > just like they have all these years, without
>a 'FaceLift' or 'Tummy-Tuk' - just up and running in your face
>Survival.
>
>'Street Survivor' is the duct tape / bale-ing wire
>rides along side the early mods bts street racer that
>saw 'Q-Ship' service in and among the throngs
>of GTX / SS novas - 10pm @ 'Pappys' Puppy Palace'
>Friday Nite - the 'Showroom Ghosts' that sat outside the
>Car Port - all year long....... for decades.
>
>*[ for those just joining in, bts equates:  'Beat to Shit' ]
>
>
>Who here,..... would rather find / see an example of a
>favourite, in a dry barn where it was 'tucked away' many
>decades prior and lost or forgotten...?. . raise your mouse -
>
>Everyone at a Car Show would - including all the Trailer Queen
>addicts.
>
>The Survivors speak to the soul - untouched V'irgins' ........
>
>The first .jpg I stop at when surfing Club sites is the 'Barn Fresh'
>occupant atop that U-Haul - awaiting the bucket & hose - you With Me
>?
>
>
>I just got in my SMS samples for a '55 Nash Ambo the other day -
>we're talking 'oh my gosh' - these 50s people were on Acid !
>
>soooh *Tweaky Nice* - Art Deco Upholstery Fabric... ahh yeahh -
>dreams of junker to jewel once again....... life is good........
>sometimes..
>
>
>Big Money Restorations, perhaps simply from the fact that I'm down
>here in the 'Mosh Pit of Fiscally Garrotted  Brethren', thrills me
>back to being a car loving 10  year old,  that the 'Original
>Materials' of the day having been lovingly sought
>and applied - just like the Show-room car once was..... ahh.....
>damn...[sigh.....],,ooh...... the 'ambience' of real hair & cotton
>bolstering .......ever see Kaisers' 'Dragon-Hide' ?
>
>
>Stay 'Survivor Status' - these are the tru Concourse Winners -
>and should be recognized as such.
>
>
>All Listers should petition our AMC fractional amalgam conglomerate
>for 'Recognition' of Original Examples - unfettered -
>open a 'Survivor' Class Awards judging criteria debate,
>as this class would prove much more competetive in concept
>than is the bolt by bolt - mega buk  reconstruction throw down
>Platinum Plus Visa sak racing 'Restored' Class warfare trunnion set.
>
>
>I've found it is tougher to keep that nice 'Survivor' from rusting
>and fading than it is to Mag-y-ar the 'Hanger Queen' - ;)
>..... any Married Men here have a different Opinion ..... ?
>
>
>
>    milnersXcoupe
>       NEW YORK
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>End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 36
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