AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 39

[amc-list-request@xxxxxxx]

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Air Cooled Transmissions (Matt Haas)
   2. Re: 1967 232 six thermostat housing stud broken in head
      (Matt Haas)
   3. 68 rebel grille (Teamamc)
   4. Re: AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored (Tom Jennings)
   5. Re: 1967 232 six thermostat housing stud broken in head
      (Tom Jennings)
   6. Re: AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 23 (Tom Jennings)
   7. Re: 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille! (Tom Jennings)
   8. Re: 1967 232 six thermostat housing stud broken in head
      (Tom Jennings)
   9. 390 rocker arm studs (Rich Durante)
  10. How to sell a car: (Mike Kindle)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:56:43 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Air Cooled Transmissions
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060819114058.029028c8@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

The boss on the right side is close to one of the factory cooler line 
bosses but I'm not 100% sure it's in the same place as the ones on my 67 
wagon. Both fittings are just above the oil pan flange but I'm pretty sure 
the case looks a lot different on that side.

Matt

At 12:21 PM 8/18/2006 -0700, you wrote:
>On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, Tom Jennings wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
> >
> > > It seems to me this subject came up here locally a couple of years ago
> > > and the general consensus was that air cooled transmissions actually had
> > > pipe plug capped fittings that you could unscrew the pipe plugs from and
> > > screw in lines that could be run to an external cooler if you wanted to
> > > go through that work.
> > > I have been wracking my brains trying to be more specific but senior
> > > moments seem to clog up the thought process.
> > o> Is there any truth to this?
> >
>You can see for yourself here:
>
>http://.wps.com/temp/M35-left.jpg
>http://.wps.com/temp/M35-right.jpg
>
>Well, there is one boss on the right side I cannot identify,
>and it *might* be drillable. Someone less lazy than me will
>have to locate this boss in a TSM to see what's behind it.
>
>Even if, there's clearly no return, though I suppose you
>could dump into the dipstick tube, though it's adjacent to the
>mystery boss.
>
>In 1989,I asked my brain surgeon (aka Bill from B & E
>Transmissions, San Francisco) about modding my trans, he said
>it migt be possible, but errors would be fatal, and I didn't
>have a spare core.
>
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com

mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 11:54:26 -0400
From: Matt Haas <mhaas@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1967 232 six thermostat housing stud broken in
	head
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20060819114848.02957c58@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

John,

It's screwed in. Note that 1964-67 uses a different thermostat housing than 
later models. I'm not sure if this is an auto parts store part anymore or 
not but I know Kennedy American sells cast iron replacements that don't 
suffer from this problem. Originals are made of aluminium (if you want an 
aluminum one, keep an eye out on eBay or put a want add in a club news 
letter). These were not always painted from the factory but I would paint a 
cast iron one to keep it from turning into a rusty lump on the front of 
your engine. When you replace the stud, be aware that there's a course side 
that screws into the block and a fine side that the nut goes onto. Also, 
the hardware on each stud should be a flat washer (goes against the 
housing), a lock washer, and then the nut.

Matt

At 10:48 AM 8/19/2006 -0400, you wrote:
>All,
>
>I was removing the thermostat housing on my 1967 Rambler Rebel 232 six cyl
>thermostat housing and the housing was seized to the long stud.  Not know 
>that
>the housing corroded to the stud I broke the stud.screwed/pressed into the
>head.
>
>Can anyone tell me if the stud has screws into the head or is the stud
>pressed into the head?
>
>I have purchased a left handed screw extractor from Sears and I am prepared
>to try and remove the stud thinking it is a threaded stud.
>
>Any help would be appreciated.
>
>John
>San Jose Ca
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com

mhaas@xxxxxxx
Cincinnati, OH
http://www.mattsoldcars.com
1967 Rambler American wagon
1968 Rambler American sedan
===============================================================
According to a February survey of Internet holdouts released by
UCLA's Center for Communication Policy, people cite
not having a computer as the No. 1 reason they won't go online.



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:57:20 -0600
From: Teamamc <Teamamc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 68 rebel grille
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <003501c6c3b0$88f58510$6700a8c0@FAST>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

AOL is bouncing my emails to 
Re: 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille! (PSchambs@xxxxxxx)

I have a grille if you want to contact me at 
teamamc@xxxxxxxxxxx





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:18:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs.
	Restored
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608190955400.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006, Brien Tourville wrote:

> I could crave to be of this 'niche'  -  puttering in a well
> lit - well equipped bay, listening to 'Alice in Chains'
> while pondering recasting NASH
> hood ornaments in Crystal glass for my List friends
> X-mass presents...... from the Original FactoryMolds ! ;)

Am I on your xmas list?

> To digress: 

Wow, longer post that mine :-)

But I agree w/you -- 101% restos used to have something like
SHOCK VALUE -- //I had no idea that could look this nice!!!//
-- but unfortunately in typical American fashion mind-numbing
excess took over and so many car shows have row after row
after row of identical immaculate restorations. Now it's all
microscopic 'but this bolt is from May 69, yours is from June'.

Actual originals are far, far, more interesting to me [but I
admit I probably am not the one to ask, my taste in cars runs to
the perverse]. And with the glut of shiny ones, might be worth,
in the long haul, just as much.

A five year old car, 30K miles, a small rash of poor factory
paint on the firewall and tattered engine stickers -- you'd sand
and spraybomb the rough spot, scrape that old paper off good. On
a 40 year old car, 30K miles, those are precious artifacts of
a bygone time, and people want 8-megalpixel photos of them.

A lot of us had these sorts of cars back when they were five year
old toys; that's when our attitude got set. Now that they're 40,
we see 'em still as 5, but they are not not not.


People not you with a different set of eyes will really
appreciate the patina; as John 'canary in the coal mine'
Mahoney points out, history will appreciate them too, but
that's hard to accomodate when it's YOU with YOUR car NOW.
It's a tough call when it's your car.

If you are gonna show against the big-buck restos, you better
have deep deep pockets! Or love to utterly obsess over extreme
perfection for years to come. Look at Dwayne Ashmead's car --
unbelievably beautiful and perfect. Is that you? It's sure not
me! I think it's a bit nuts -- but it's an admirable kind of
crazy, and what it takes to undertake extreme projects. I spent
some tim just staring at the chassis -- it's got this zen beauty,
it radiates weirdness. It's art. Amazing.

Preserved originals have a very subtle kind of beauty. Knowitall
weekend car show attendees walkin the aisles talking loudly
about cars they don't understand anyways won't get it. But it
will get more and more interesting as it gets older.

tomj



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:19:47 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1967 232 six thermostat housing stud broken in
	head
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608191019120.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006, JohnBherna@xxxxxxx wrote:

> Can anyone tell me if the stud has screws into the head or is the stud 
> pressed into the head?

It's threaded in, 5/16"-20 I think.


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:27:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 23
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608191020100.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 15 Aug 2006, Frank Swygert wrote:

> I know one fellow who got
> a big finned heat sink from an old electronic power supply (ancient!)
> and riveted that to the bottom of the pan. The heat sink covered most
> of the pan and was about an inch thick. Should have made quite a
> difference!

If the thermally coupled it to the pan... even a thin airgap
would keep the thermal resistance high.

I saw somewhere (B&M?) a deep trans pan that had a row of
tubes welded in, running straight through the pan front to
rear, so that air would flow through them, of course covered
in fluid inside. not for the M35 of course, but not THAT hard
to fabricate.

But I really think a simple temp gauge on the thing will tell
a lot -- if it's not getting hot, cooling isn't needed! For me,
the simplicity is attractive -- I'll just slow down.


This coming winter, I have to decide what to do about mine
(torque tube M35 in 63 Classic Wagon). 

* Find someone to do drive in/drive out rebuild?
* Pull, drop off [where?], reinstall, in driveway? (ugh)
* Find core, have rebuilt [where?], swap in driveway? (ugh)
* Find manual-trans-not-T96, convert? (ugh) (but was manual car orig)


>From what I can tell, it's gonna cost me $800 - $1000 anyways
no matter what I do. I want it done right. I have a T96/OD
but I don't trust them.




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:32:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille!
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608191029510.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006, Frank Swygert wrote:

> Pete, don't you dare leave that car home just because the grille is
> damaged, or even missing! Take it out and enter in AMC shows anyway. 

Damn right! No shame there, even *I* know AMX grilles are almost
non existent -- it's not like you're showing up without tires
or something. And you'll kick yourself when you realize the car
you left home was as good or better than the field.


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 10:37:30 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1967 232 six thermostat housing stud broken in
	head
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608191034300.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sat, 19 Aug 2006, Matt Haas wrote:

> 
> It's screwed in. Note that 1964-67 uses a different thermostat housing than 
> later models. I'm not sure if this is an auto parts store part anymore or 
> not but I know Kennedy American sells cast iron replacements that don't 
> suffer from this problem. Originals are made of aluminium (if you want an 
> aluminum one, keep an eye out on eBay or put a want add in a club news 
> letter). These were not always painted from the factory but I would paint a 
> cast iron one to keep it from turning into a rusty lump on the front of 
> your engine. When you replace the stud, be aware that there's a course side 
> that screws into the block and a fine side that the nut goes onto. Also, 
> the hardware on each stud should be a flat washer (goes against the 
> housing), a lock washer, and then the nut.

It's one of a few places that likes to attract and retain water,
and then rust solid, even in well-maintained engines. I used to
use antiseize on those, but now I: (1) run a bottoming tap into
the hole to remove all crud (2) squirt brake cleaner into it
to get it spotlessly clean and dry wire brush, run a die down,
or replace the stud (4) use lots of non-hardening gasket cement
in the hole and on the stud. That will keep water out. Ask me
in 10 years how it's worked out :-)



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 14:28:28 -0400
From: Rich Durante <TWINRICH@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 390 rocker arm studs
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES62I9IJsaJbq0000058f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

are the rocker arm studs the same as the chevy small block or can
someone tell me where to get the correct ones for my 390

=============================================================
Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 16:21:38 -0700
From: "Mike Kindle" <mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] How to sell a car:
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY113-F332F7871E76669C6B9FDA3FC430@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed




>From: amc-list-request@xxxxxxx
>Reply-To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 36
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 08:05:39 +0000
>
>Send AMC-List mailing list submissions to
>	amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>	http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>	amc-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>You can reach the person managing the list at
>	amc-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>than "Re: Contents of AMC-List digest..."
>
>
>Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Air Cooled Transmissions (Tom Jennings)
>    2. Re: Strut rods '70 and up, probably more than you wanted to
>       know. (Tom Jennings)
>    3. Re: Diary of a crippled white man update (Tom Jennings)
>    4. Re: Air Cooled Transmissions (Tom Jennings)
>    5. Re: Air Cooled Transmissions (Mark Price)
>    6. Re: 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille! (PSchambs@xxxxxxx)
>    7. Show (Mahoney, John)
>    8. Re: AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. (dan whitehead)
>    9. Fw: 71 HORNET BRAKE PROBLEM (Eddie Stakes)
>   10. Power steering (Ray Mick)
>   11. some amc auctions (Teamamc)
>   12. AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored (Brien Tourville)
>   13. Re: AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored (amckiwi)
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>Message: 1
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 11:53:57 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Air Cooled Transmissions
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608181153300.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
>
> > For what it's worth.
> > It seems to me this subject came up here locally a couple of years ago
> > and the general consensus was that air cooled transmissions actually had
> > pipe plug capped fittings that you could unscrew the pipe plugs from and
> > screw in lines that could be run to an external cooler if you wanted to
> > go through that work.
> > I have been wracking my brains trying to be more specific but senior
> > moments seem to clog up the thought process.
>o> Is there any truth to this?
>
>I've got one out layin on the ground! (1970 M35.) I'll go look!
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 2
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:03:41 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Strut rods '70 and up, probably more than you
>	wanted to know.
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608181158100.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
>
> > I have taken a serious look at the 70+ lower control arm. It is a really
> > cheesy looking design. In stripping parts cars out for donor pieces the
> > lower control arms will have some creative and serious damage to them. A
> > lot of the damage comes from advanced neglect. However the upper control
> > arms seem to get by that o.k.
>
>Strut bushings failing does this. The lower arm is weak as you
>say; stamped sheet arm with single bushing, but if the strut
>bushing is perfect nearly no force is delivered to that lower,
>inner bushing. But when the strut bushing goes bad, the inner
>bushing gets LOTS of off-axis torque, eats the bushing, cracks
>the arm, etc. VERY BAD!
>
> > My gut feeling is that a significant portion of strut rod bushing
> > problems is caused by excessive wear and tear of the lower control arm
> > and or well intentioned  efforts to re-enforce the pivot point of the
> > lower control arm causing the arm it self to bend and probably
> > aggravated by the installation of polyurethane bushings.
>
>I agree with your observations, but I think cause and effect are
>reversed here (though lack of maintenance is ruinous anywhere,
>esp. 40 year old suspensions!).
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 3
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:06:15 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Diary of a crippled white man update
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608181205310.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, Mark Price wrote:
>
> > Subject: [AMC-List] Diary of a crippled white man update
>
>Good luck with the surgery! I will try to appreciate my
>comfortable routines... :-)
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 4
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:21:19 -0700 (PDT)
>From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Air Cooled Transmissions
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0608181217350.6573@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
>
>On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, Tom Jennings wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
> >
> > > It seems to me this subject came up here locally a couple of years ago
> > > and the general consensus was that air cooled transmissions actually 
>had
> > > pipe plug capped fittings that you could unscrew the pipe plugs from 
>and
> > > screw in lines that could be run to an external cooler if you wanted 
>to
> > > go through that work.
> > > I have been wracking my brains trying to be more specific but senior
> > > moments seem to clog up the thought process.
> > o> Is there any truth to this?
> >
>You can see for yourself here:
>
>http://.wps.com/temp/M35-left.jpg
>http://.wps.com/temp/M35-right.jpg
>
>Well, there is one boss on the right side I cannot identify,
>and it *might* be drillable. Someone less lazy than me will
>have to locate this boss in a TSM to see what's behind it.
>
>Even if, there's clearly no return, though I suppose you
>could dump into the dipstick tube, though it's adjacent to the
>mystery boss.
>
>In 1989,I asked my brain surgeon (aka Bill from B & E
>Transmissions, San Francisco) about modding my trans, he said
>it migt be possible, but errors would be fatal, and I didn't
>have a spare core.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 5
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 12:50:57 -0700
>From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Air Cooled Transmissions
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <26666928.1155930657687.JavaMail.root@web28>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
>The return is not the problem it can be dumped into the pan almost 
>anywhere.
>I have a couple of cores that coujld be experimented with easily, alas, I 
>have no urge to do so! Anyone want one or two?
>--
>Mark Price
>markprice242ATadelphia.net
>Morgantown, WV
>
>
>---- Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx> wrote:
> > On Fri, 18 Aug 2006, Tom Jennings wrote:
> >
> > > On Thu, 17 Aug 2006, John Elle wrote:
> > >
> > > > It seems to me this subject came up here locally a couple of years 
>ago
> > > > and the general consensus was that air cooled transmissions actually 
>had
> > > > pipe plug capped fittings that you could unscrew the pipe plugs from 
>and
> > > > screw in lines that could be run to an external cooler if you wanted 
>to
> > > > go through that work.
> > > > I have been wracking my brains trying to be more specific but senior
> > > > moments seem to clog up the thought process.
> > > o> Is there any truth to this?
> > >
> > You can see for yourself here:
> >
> > http://.wps.com/temp/M35-left.jpg
> > http://.wps.com/temp/M35-right.jpg
> >
> > Well, there is one boss on the right side I cannot identify,
> > and it *might* be drillable. Someone less lazy than me will
> > have to locate this boss in a TSM to see what's behind it.
> >
> > Even if, there's clearly no return, though I suppose you
> > could dump into the dipstick tube, though it's adjacent to the
> > mystery boss.
> >
> > In 1989,I asked my brain surgeon (aka Bill from B & E
> > Transmissions, San Francisco) about modding my trans, he said
> > it migt be possible, but errors would be fatal, and I didn't
> > have a spare core.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > AMC-List mailing list
> > AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> > http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
> >
> > or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 6
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 16:02:54 EDT
>From: PSchambs@xxxxxxx
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 1968 Rebel 550 = Grille!
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <c85.1562ef.321776ee@xxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
>
>Desperation is rapidly setting in - the car will be repainted; engine  and
>upholstery rebuilt and no front grille!
>Somebody please help - NOS? ; A grille in any half way decent condition?
>This will be impossible to show without a stock front 
>grille.............Thanks
>- hopefully -
>
>Pete  Schambs
>_pschambs@xxxxxxxx (mailto:pschambs@xxxxxxx)
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 7
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 17:59:50 -0400
>From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] Show
>To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Message-ID:
>	<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A02202C4D@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>I was in NY earlier this week and owe Frank (plus others?) a correction.  A 
>2006 Wollman Rink show appears to be a no go.  A Lincoln Center show?  Ho 
>ho ho.
>
>Go loco.  Or, rather, go local.
>
>"On August 19, a Mopar Only Show 'n Shine stock and hotrod car and truck 
>show will be held at Barry Dodge on Main Street in Brockport NY." the blurb 
>reads.  What?  "AMC and all related makes are also welcome!" is the 
>reality.
>
>http://www.cgazette.com/common/news/2005/Aug05news/1124389382410.html
>
>Don't confuse Mora of Newark with DiMora of Rochester in Palm Springs.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/ffmyu
>
>Much more should be said.
>
>Lots of auction action between now and snowfall.  Interesting results.
>
>Is a '36 V-12 Packard worth just two '66 Olds Toronados?  Is a '66 GTO more 
>valuable than a '58 Turnpike Cruiser --- if both are 2-dr htps?
>Is a '32 Pierce-Arrow (once owned by Pitt Petri [store owner, not lab 
>vessel] of Buffalo) no more special than a '50 [post] Ford?  Is a Nash 
>Ambassador worth $13,000 or $103,000.  Dunno.  That's the way it goes.
>
>http://tinyurl.com/lcuz2
>
> >>
>...should I remove the engine to detail and paint, or leave in the
>engine bay and clean and detail only(leaving the original "patina")?
><<
>
>Preserved cars rule.
>
>As time will prove.
>
>Gotta go.
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 8
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:46:35 +0000
>From: "dan whitehead" <freebird_58@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs.
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <BAY111-F197F60E92D94E7D0F2A85694420@xxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
>
>Unless there's rust issues to deal with, or as stated, you want the 
>trophies
>I'd leave it original.  Even with all the dings, scrapes, and rust on my
>Donohue, when in Daytona in 2000 I was parked next to Ashmeads Donohue.  
>The
>gentleman that did the restoration told a guy to look at my car when 
>talking
>about originality in the engine compartment.  Made me feel pretty good.
>It's your car, if you want original, race, pro touring, whatever it's your
>decision in the end.  But unless there are issues I wouldn't touch it.
>
>Dan Whitehead
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 9
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 21:57:04 -0500
>From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] Fw: 71 HORNET BRAKE PROBLEM
>To: <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Cc: PHILBERTAMC@xxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <004901c6c33b$2afbf540$0ff4b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"
>
>Anyone wishing to help Phil out please feel free to comment and also please 
>copy your reply to him down below,thanks to those who might assist,
>Eddie Stakes'
>Planet Houston AMX
>713.464.8825
>eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>www.planethoustonamx.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: PHIL & ROBERTA CLIFTON       PHILBERTAMC@xxxxxxxxx
>
>
>EDDIE,
>
>I SPOKE WITH YOU WED. NIGHT ABOUT MY 71 HORNET.  THIS HORNET HAS A 401 IN 
>IT.  IT HAS POWER DISC BRAKES.  BUT, AS I MENTION TO YOU THE BRAKE DOES NOT 
>OPERATE CORRECTLY.  IT HAS A HARD BRAKE PEDAL.  I KNOW THERE WOULD NOT BE 
>ENOUGH ROOM TO INSTALL A DUAL DIAFRAM (NOT SURE OF THE SPELLING) BOOSTER.  
>SHOULD I PUT STANDARD DISC BRAKES ON THE HORNET INSTEAD OF POWER DISC 
>BRAKES? WHAT WOULD BE YOUR SUGGEST HAS TO HOW I CAN SOLVE THIS PROBLEM?
>
>THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR YOUR ASSISTANCE.
>PLEASE EMAIL ME AT: PHILBERTAMC@xxxxxxxxx
>
>PHIL
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 10
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 22:01:51 -0500
>From: Ray Mick <rmick@xxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] Power steering
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <7C3B7637-2B14-4180-B155-49BAADB053FD@xxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
>My power steering box is leaking  at the pitman arm shaft. Thinking
>about installing one of the quick ratio 12:1 units on my 72 Javelin/
>AMX. Has anyone had any experience with one of these units? How much
>better is the road fill? Or the variable ratio unit ?
>
>Ray Mick
>Somewhere in Kansas
>"The older I get the faster I was"
>72 Javelin/AMX
>72 Javelin R/W/B SST
>71 Javelin
>See my Javelin @
>http://community.webshots.com/album/54361408pRyvWE
>
>My RWB Javelin@ http://members.cox.net/jvlnnut/Site/My%20Space.html
>
>Mid America AMC
>www.midamericaamc.com
>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 11
>Date: Fri, 18 Aug 2006 23:37:55 -0600
>From: Teamamc <Teamamc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] some amc auctions
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <004b01c6c351$9f0d15c0$6700a8c0@FAST>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
>
>http://search.ebay.ca/_W0QQsassZmrsamcQQhtZ-1
>If the link does not work you  can search under MRSAMC
>
>Seatbelts
>tilt steering
>wiring harness
>71 hornet rocker chrome
>67 rebel electric wiper setup
>hornet gremlin kick panels
>lots more
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 12
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 02:30:09 -0400
>From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored
>To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <44E677B1.25810.36FD4D7@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
>
>
>
>
>  Fellow AMCer's,
>
>I have decision to make with my 74 AMX(32,000 original miles):
>This car is an original, non-restored, survivor:  Original
>paint(great
>condition), glass, interior, chrome, stainless, exhaust system.  The
>motor
>and tranny have never been separated and removed.
>
>My decision:
>
>should I
>remove the engine to detail and paint, or leave in the engine bay and
>clean and detail only(leaving the original "patina")? I cannot
>compete
>with frame-off, rotisserie restored stock vehicles at car shows. If
>they
>had a vintage/survivor class I would do well.
>
>I welcome your feedback/opinions!
>
>Thanks,
>mark
>
>
>
>
>== =          ===
>
>
>
>The 'Restored' Camp is inherently fuel'd by
>Cubic Dollars with a smidgen of ego* -
>[ Egos' with a 'small' E ] :
>
>Fiscally capable folks who are genuinely nice
>people - who with time on their hands, undertake
>a project as a couple, a widower or single - who
>remember cars of their youth & have discovered
>the world of restoration, clubs and camaraderie...
>and some well monied snobs who stick it to each
>other good naturedly - you know who you are.....
>
>I could crave to be of this 'niche'  -  puttering in a well
>lit - well equipped bay, listening to 'Alice in Chains'
>while pondering recasting NASH
>hood ornaments in Crystal glass for my List friends
>X-mass presents...... from the Original FactoryMolds ! ;)
>
>These days it only takes one evening of enjoying the
>Barrett - Jackson Auctions and the escalating price of
>Cat Food, to bring home the realities
>of modern day 'Restored' efforts / costs - serving to reaffirm
>the salvage yard blood flowing in my veins -
>and my 'Run what you Brung' appreciation of a JC Whitney
>'fast' heap of bubbling primer - 'the mythical street killah..'.....
>...."whos' gotta 'lite'...smoke ....."?
>
>
>
>To digress:
>
>A 'Survivor' or 'Street Survivor' ride runs parallel to
>my years of being a musician, as Amps and Guitars
>that have seen the ravages of playing, the intimacy of
>  practising - spilled drinks and smoky treat ciggy
>burns  along the peg heads of Clubs and Travel,
>all have spawned an industry
>of manufacturing  'Closet Classics' and D'istressed
>Classics' that boggle the mind -
>
>
>Fender Guitars actually pays people salary to judiciously steel wool
>off and expertly bang up, expensive Nitro Cellulose finishes
>on CNC recreation '57 Stratocasters - all dimensions captured
>from a 'Pristine' surviving specimen - bought with
>huge Corporate funds, mostly from Asian collectors
>who knew the market early & rolled in tractor trailers
>'en mass to the Guitar Conventions and wrote out
>blank checks for entire collections on the spot.
>
>These 'Originals' are kept in climate controlled caverns
>filled with hundreds and thousands of Old Guitars and Amps,
>privately owned - now in Asia somewhere.
>
>The 'New' banged up guitars go for 'in the thousands' more than a
>brand new 'a thousand plus' Strat on the wall, both of which pale
>in price but not actuality - against the $250K Original 1957
>Stratocaster.
>
>One bts MARSHALL filthy amp head I discovered in an overstocked
>used equipment shop was missing most all internals and
>knobs, yet was a 'Plexi' 100 watt from the early 60s' -
>a V'eteran' ! ...'dude, .....it's 'Old Home Week' ..... *Nice* ;)
>
>'Plexi' means the front MARSHALL logo of Plexi-Glas -
>putting its' age in a certain 'Romanticised' year range,
>like when Hendrix roamed Houston St. nite spots in
>the Village  of NYC.
>
>The grunge'd Tolex covering was worn out everywhere,  exposing
>the Birch laminated finger jointed plywood construction -
>everything in 'mutha beautiful'tatters :
>
>- it was so beat - that any musician having
>gone thru the Clubs immediately 'connected' heart & soul..
>..."see? ..still smell like 'Bud' ......"...... .
>
>- any viewing 'wannabee' needed a change of fresh shorts
>from the massive 'Boost' of 'the real deal' -
>
>I secretly knew ..... that THIS was the Grail Trophy - the Icon
>of Concert Survivorism - and so did the shop > $three grand
>for the beat up box.
>
>OK - back to cars:
>
>Outside of Bloomington Gold Corvette Circles
>and the Great Barrett - Jackson Vacuum Cleaning
>Service Top 10 - some Car Clubs do feature a 'Survivor' and
>'Street Survivor' Class and AMC should without question -
>
>I mean , ... come on > an Orphan ?  Surviving examples
>in good shape - unrestored specimens - should not Exist
>as these were from 'the disposable' era of Automotive Excess !
>
>'Survivor' would have that 30something K mileage
>Jav next to a 00036.00 mile Jav next to a 21K mile
>'56 Packard Powered Nash Coupe - and the Crowd
>is way more Appreciative that these examples have
>'Made It' > just like they have all these years, without
>a 'FaceLift' or 'Tummy-Tuk' - just up and running in your face
>Survival.
>
>'Street Survivor' is the duct tape / bale-ing wire
>rides along side the early mods bts street racer that
>saw 'Q-Ship' service in and among the throngs
>of GTX / SS novas - 10pm @ 'Pappys' Puppy Palace'
>Friday Nite - the 'Showroom Ghosts' that sat outside the
>Car Port - all year long....... for decades.
>
>*[ for those just joining in, bts equates:  'Beat to Shit' ]
>
>
>Who here,..... would rather find / see an example of a
>favourite, in a dry barn where it was 'tucked away' many
>decades prior and lost or forgotten...?. . raise your mouse -
>
>Everyone at a Car Show would - including all the Trailer Queen
>addicts.
>
>The Survivors speak to the soul - untouched V'irgins' ........
>
>The first .jpg I stop at when surfing Club sites is the 'Barn Fresh'
>occupant atop that U-Haul - awaiting the bucket & hose - you With Me
>?
>
>
>I just got in my SMS samples for a '55 Nash Ambo the other day -
>we're talking 'oh my gosh' - these 50s people were on Acid !
>
>soooh *Tweaky Nice* - Art Deco Upholstery Fabric... ahh yeahh -
>dreams of junker to jewel once again....... life is good........
>sometimes..
>
>
>Big Money Restorations, perhaps simply from the fact that I'm down
>here in the 'Mosh Pit of Fiscally Garrotted  Brethren', thrills me
>back to being a car loving 10  year old,  that the 'Original
>Materials' of the day having been lovingly sought
>and applied - just like the Show-room car once was..... ahh.....
>damn...[sigh.....],,ooh...... the 'ambience' of real hair & cotton
>bolstering .......ever see Kaisers' 'Dragon-Hide' ?
>
>
>Stay 'Survivor Status' - these are the tru Concourse Winners -
>and should be recognized as such.
>
>
>All Listers should petition our AMC fractional amalgam conglomerate
>for 'Recognition' of Original Examples - unfettered -
>open a 'Survivor' Class Awards judging criteria debate,
>as this class would prove much more competetive in concept
>than is the bolt by bolt - mega buk  reconstruction throw down
>Platinum Plus Visa sak racing 'Restored' Class warfare trunnion set.
>
>
>I've found it is tougher to keep that nice 'Survivor' from rusting
>and fading than it is to Mag-y-ar the 'Hanger Queen' - ;)
>..... any Married Men here have a different Opinion ..... ?
>
>
>
>    milnersXcoupe
>       NEW YORK
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>Message: 13
>Date: Sat, 19 Aug 2006 18:05:28 +1000
>From: "amckiwi" <amckiwi@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs.
>	Restored
>To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>Message-ID: <002a01c6c366$3ce94980$0200a8c0@tower>
>Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1250"
>
>Survivor spins my wheels
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On Behalf
>Of Brien Tourville
>Sent: Saturday, 19 August 2006 4:30 PM
>To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Subject: [AMC-List] AMCer's Opinions: Survivor/Vintage vs. Restored
>
>
>
>
>  Fellow AMCer's,
>
>I have decision to make with my 74 AMX(32,000 original miles):
>This car is an original, non-restored, survivor:  Original
>paint(great
>condition), glass, interior, chrome, stainless, exhaust system.  The
>motor
>and tranny have never been separated and removed.
>
>My decision:
>
>should I
>remove the engine to detail and paint, or leave in the engine bay and
>clean and detail only(leaving the original "patina")? I cannot
>compete
>with frame-off, rotisserie restored stock vehicles at car shows. If
>they
>had a vintage/survivor class I would do well.
>
>I welcome your feedback/opinions!
>
>Thanks,
>mark
>
>
>
>
>== =          ===
>
>
>
>The 'Restored' Camp is inherently fuel'd by
>Cubic Dollars with a smidgen of ego* -
>[ Egos' with a 'small' E ] :
>
>Fiscally capable folks who are genuinely nice
>people - who with time on their hands, undertake
>a project as a couple, a widower or single - who
>remember cars of their youth & have discovered
>the world of restoration, clubs and camaraderie...
>and some well monied snobs who stick it to each
>other good naturedly - you know who you are.....
>
>I could crave to be of this 'niche'  -  puttering in a well
>lit - well equipped bay, listening to 'Alice in Chains'
>while pondering recasting NASH
>hood ornaments in Crystal glass for my List friends
>X-mass presents...... from the Original FactoryMolds ! ;)
>
>These days it only takes one evening of enjoying the
>Barrett - Jackson Auctions and the escalating price of
>Cat Food, to bring home the realities
>of modern day 'Restored' efforts / costs - serving to reaffirm
>the salvage yard blood flowing in my veins -
>and my 'Run what you Brung' appreciation of a JC Whitney
>'fast' heap of bubbling primer - 'the mythical street killah..'.....
>...."whos' gotta 'lite'...smoke ....."?
>
>
>
>To digress:
>
>A 'Survivor' or 'Street Survivor' ride runs parallel to
>my years of being a musician, as Amps and Guitars
>that have seen the ravages of playing, the intimacy of
>  practising - spilled drinks and smoky treat ciggy
>burns  along the peg heads of Clubs and Travel,
>all have spawned an industry
>of manufacturing  'Closet Classics' and D'istressed
>Classics' that boggle the mind -
>
>
>Fender Guitars actually pays people salary to judiciously steel wool
>off and expertly bang up, expensive Nitro Cellulose finishes
>on CNC recreation '57 Stratocasters - all dimensions captured
>from a 'Pristine' surviving specimen - bought with
>huge Corporate funds, mostly from Asian collectors
>who knew the market early & rolled in tractor trailers
>'en mass to the Guitar Conventions and wrote out
>blank checks for entire collections on the spot.
>
>These 'Originals' are kept in climate controlled caverns
>filled with hundreds and thousands of Old Guitars and Amps,
>privately owned - now in Asia somewhere.
>
>The 'New' banged up guitars go for 'in the thousands' more than a
>brand new 'a thousand plus' Strat on the wall, both of which pale
>in price but not actuality - against the $250K Original 1957
>Stratocaster.
>
>One bts MARSHALL filthy amp head I discovered in an overstocked
>used equipment shop was missing most all internals and
>knobs, yet was a 'Plexi' 100 watt from the early 60s' -
>a V'eteran' ! ...'dude, .....it's 'Old Home Week' ..... *Nice* ;)
>
>'Plexi' means the front MARSHALL logo of Plexi-Glas -
>putting its' age in a certain 'Romanticised' year range,
>like when Hendrix roamed Houston St. nite spots in
>the Village  of NYC.
>
>The grunge'd Tolex covering was worn out everywhere,  exposing
>the Birch laminated finger jointed plywood construction -
>everything in 'mutha beautiful'tatters :
>
>- it was so beat - that any musician having
>gone thru the Clubs immediately 'connected' heart & soul..
>..."see? ..still smell like 'Bud' ......"...... .
>
>- any viewing 'wannabee' needed a change of fresh shorts
>from the massive 'Boost' of 'the real deal' -
>
>I secretly knew ..... that THIS was the Grail Trophy - the Icon
>of Concert Survivorism - and so did the shop > $three grand
>for the beat up box.
>
>OK - back to cars:
>
>Outside of Bloomington Gold Corvette Circles
>and the Great Barrett - Jackson Vacuum Cleaning
>Service Top 10 - some Car Clubs do feature a 'Survivor' and
>'Street Survivor' Class and AMC should without question -
>
>I mean , ... come on > an Orphan ?  Surviving examples
>in good shape - unrestored specimens - should not Exist
>as these were from 'the disposable' era of Automotive Excess !
>
>'Survivor' would have that 30something K mileage
>Jav next to a 00036.00 mile Jav next to a 21K mile
>'56 Packard Powered Nash Coupe - and the Crowd
>is way more Appreciative that these examples have
>'Made It' > just like they have all these years, without
>a 'FaceLift' or 'Tummy-Tuk' - just up and running in your face
>Survival.
>
>'Street Survivor' is the duct tape / bale-ing wire
>rides along side the early mods bts street racer that
>saw 'Q-Ship' service in and among the throngs
>of GTX / SS novas - 10pm @ 'Pappys' Puppy Palace'
>Friday Nite - the 'Showroom Ghosts' that sat outside the
>Car Port - all year long....... for decades.
>
>*[ for those just joining in, bts equates:  'Beat to Shit' ]
>
>
>Who here,..... would rather find / see an example of a
>favourite, in a dry barn where it was 'tucked away' many
>decades prior and lost or forgotten...?. . raise your mouse -
>
>Everyone at a Car Show would - including all the Trailer Queen
>addicts.
>
>The Survivors speak to the soul - untouched V'irgins' ........
>
>The first .jpg I stop at when surfing Club sites is the 'Barn Fresh'
>occupant atop that U-Haul - awaiting the bucket & hose - you With Me
>?
>
>
>I just got in my SMS samples for a '55 Nash Ambo the other day -
>we're talking 'oh my gosh' - these 50s people were on Acid !
>
>soooh *Tweaky Nice* - Art Deco Upholstery Fabric... ahh yeahh -
>dreams of junker to jewel once again....... life is good........
>sometimes..
>
>
>Big Money Restorations, perhaps simply from the fact that I'm down
>here in the 'Mosh Pit of Fiscally Garrotted  Brethren', thrills me
>back to being a car loving 10  year old,  that the 'Original
>Materials' of the day having been lovingly sought
>and applied - just like the Show-room car once was..... ahh.....
>damn...[sigh.....],,ooh...... the 'ambience' of real hair & cotton
>bolstering .......ever see Kaisers' 'Dragon-Hide' ?
>
>
>Stay 'Survivor Status' - these are the tru Concourse Winners -
>and should be recognized as such.
>
>
>All Listers should petition our AMC fractional amalgam conglomerate
>for 'Recognition' of Original Examples - unfettered -
>open a 'Survivor' Class Awards judging criteria debate,
>as this class would prove much more competetive in concept
>than is the bolt by bolt - mega buk  reconstruction throw down
>Platinum Plus Visa sak racing 'Restored' Class warfare trunnion set.
>
>
>I've found it is tougher to keep that nice 'Survivor' from rusting
>and fading than it is to Mag-y-ar the 'Hanger Queen' - ;)
>..... any Married Men here have a different Opinion ..... ?
>
>
>
>    milnersXcoupe
>       NEW YORK
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
>
>--
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>
>
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>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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>
>
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>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.3/423 - Release Date: 18/08/2006
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>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>
>End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 36
>***************************************




------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 7, Issue 39
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