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Yup, rips offs are everywhere not just ebay. I guess ebay, while a majority
of the transactions are fun and go off without a hitch, it seems only the 'bad
guys' get the press, well, except when you see Leno's 'stuff we found on ebay'
skit. As for putting that 70(?) Gremlin grill on ebay, there is a fellow, don't
know who it is, who goes by the seller name 'amc parts unlimited' who sells on
ebay and had one for seal NOS for several months for $275, here is another grill
he/she has and in same price range:
You can click on the 'view sellers other items' or 'view ebay sellers
store' for more.
The AMX locally that I mentioned was not even worth $2000. Every panel was
damaged or rusted. Engine needed complete going thru, brakes hit floor, trans
slipped, hey, but tires were new. The disatisfaction came in a barrage of calls
from this fellow who is going into surgery today for gall bladder removal. Since
I am local, I guess he leaned on me. Repeatedly, sometimes twice a day, as I
continued to give him options on what to possibly do to get his money back. I
don't know to the extent ebay was involved, I do know that they have some
kind of 'vehicle purchase protection up to $20,000' program:
Of which I told Rod to see if his loss would be covered, or, the
seller/buyer could work it out. You know, 90% of the time, just communication
solves a lot. I agree, he did choose to buy the car without seeing it first, and
that is somthing I am adamantly against, and any old car place will tell you
that is a no-no. Too much room for error. Still, people do, their choice. I also
told him like others, many times people get caught up in the auction itself
"just gotta have it!" or "dammit, you ain't outbiddin me!!" mentality. In Rod's
case, he admitted making that fatal mistake. The appraiser he got (located in
Woodlands and nationally known) would not even appraise the car once out telling
him he got took when Rod told himn what he had paid. That's pretty bad, but his
choice, whether Rod paid him or not. I don't think the seller flat out lied
either. I interveined on Rod's behalf and called the seller in WA, letting him
know that I was not interested in the car, had not personally seen it, and the
only reason I was calling on my dime(s) was that there was a really unhappy
buyer down here who was telling me he was going to go to the Harris County
District Attorney and file theft of services charges, whereas the seller would
have to come to Houston from Washington and defend himself.
That got his attention and he told me he is not a AMX specialist. Hell, I
have had over 100 68-70 AMXs and am not a AMX specialst even though doing this
for decades. I know more than the average bear however. But the big problem here
was the car was misrepresented. Big time. This is the actual text of the
auction, and yes, in CAPS:
=====================================================================
THIS IS A VERY NICE RUNNING AND DRIVING 1968 AMX , IT IS A 290 V8 WITH A
BORG WARNER T10 4 SPEED TRANSMISSION, THE BODY IS PRETTY STRAIGHT AND NO SIGNS
OF ANY RUST, THE TRUNK IS VERY CLEAN, DOORS CLOSE NICELY, THE PAINT COULD USE
FRESHENING UP AS WELL AS THE SEATS AND HEADLINER, THE DOOR PANELS AND DASH ARE
VERY NICE, CHROME IS NICE , ALUMINUM WHEELS WITH NEWER TIRES, GOOD EXHAUST, THE
REAR REFLECTOR PANEL IS VERY NICE WHICH IS A BIG PLUS, ENGINE COMPARTMENT SEEMS
FAIRLY ORIGINAL EXCEPT FOR AIR CLEANER, AIR SHOCKS ARE INSTALLED ON THE REAR
WHICH IS WHY IT IS SITTING TALL IN THE BACK.THE CAR ORIGINALLY DID NOT HAVE A
CONSOLE BUT CURRENTLY HAS AN AFTERMARKET INSTALLED, CAR ALSO HAS A CD WITH POWER
AMP WHICH IS NOT INCLUDED IN THE AUCTION AND WILL BE REMOVED.PAYMENT WILL BE
MADE BY WIRE TRANSFER WITHIN 72 HOURS OF AUCTION END AND BUYER IS RESPONSIBLE
FOR SHIPPING COSTS.I CAN HELP ARRANGE SHIPPING.CAR IS SOLD AS IS WHERE IS. HAPPY
BIDDING
======================================================================
I could pick it apart on what was written above, and what was wrong with
the car in person. To me it is no big deal, it was not worth $3500, not, ok,
maybe worth $2000. Thare are better cars for sale in same price range you know
the SUAD is littered with them. As for that Concord wagon, I think it would be a
great $1200-$2000 car. Just my opinion, it looks like a really nice car except
for the baige color, bjut it is a very nice clean survivor. And to me, that is
what it is all about anyhows, the cars that are still out there. Regardless of
what they may, or may not be worth. I don't thik my 72 Ambassador SST station
wagon is a $3900 car and the only ones to offer me that are my rich Nigerian
friends. With cashiers checks. No aMCers have stepped up, and that is a really
nice, daily driven car, new trans, tires, much more. Big deal, I would be happy
to get $2900 for it. I don't let it keep me asleep at night worrying about price
guides, and what i may or may not sell a car for. i do however cringe when I see
people lose money on AMC. Anything. And someone taking a financial hit like the
owner of the Matador Machine is a poster boy car for what I'm saying.
In a conversation with Fred Phillips who bought it, he mentioned the thread
about that car on the amc-forum. He said bluntly 'that many aMCers don't get it'
I had to politely disagree, we get it all right but trying to will our cars to a
higher price range don't work. I told him that we all would love to see $50K
AMXs. There would be more money in the hobby, there would be more repro in the
hobby, therer would be more exposure in the hobby. Ain't happened in 3+ decades.
And I don't see it happening anytime soon either. He asked me why is that. I
told him prices for AMC have always lagged behind the Big 3. And someone who has
$10K in pocket to spend on a old car usually goes out and looks at all (as they
should) cars in that price range, regardless of make and marque. They would be a
fool not to. Some lean towards AMC and that is fine. Some have been priced out
of their Cudas and Camaros also, but a majority of them stick with what they
know.
Granted, Fred owns the AMX1/1966 Vignale AMX; the AMX II and a few other
high dollar AMCs, and he thought the 71 Machine was a 'steal'. Guess what. I did
too.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, March 02, 2005 7:09
AM
Subject: RE: [BaadAssGremlins] Re: ebay
& market value of amcs? (long)
Eddie,
Yea...I've heard this stuff, too. But
rip-off artists are everywhere, not just eBay.
Nobody claims any venue to be totally
safe. I suggested eBay to sell a grill
the seller knows is NOS-quality. The
Concord is, judging from the photos,
worth every penny of $2500. The AMX your
contact mentions looks like an
easy $2000 in parets alone, so how the
whole can be worth less is hard to
believe...and you note didn't give an
ounce of reasons for the buyer's
disatisfaction. Still, he chose to bid
without seeing the car first hand, and the
photos and description show me a car not
in the $7000 range...but until I
see that car in person or hear specifics
of why it isn't, I'd say she's a $3500
car, judging by the pics and description.
If the seller flat-out lied, it's fraud.
If all it is is a case of buyer
over-paying...he chose to bid that high, and it
isn't a crime of the seller to take it. It's an auction,
after all.
John
I want to comment on ebay. Ebay is looked at as a 'sell all' which it
is not. Here is a recent example:
Eddie
I talked with you last week about the 68 AMX 290 4 speed car I just
bought. I am planning on painting the car Red/White/Blue the same as
the 69 SS AMX cars. Would you happen to have the specifications on the
colors and the proper dimensions of the paint. I know the colors, but
do not know the with of the white or how far back the red goes.
Thanks and thanks for you support of the AMC cars
Regards
Rod
-----Original
Message-----
From: eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Monday, January 31, 2005 1:47
PM
To: Myers, Rodney J
(HOU)
Subject: Re: AMX paint
Hi Rod, my suggestion on this would be easy! Go to www.ssamx.com and look at the configurations
of the different vehicles there. Just by looking at where the cutoff points
are like around door and 1/4 window you will easily be able to determine
where the lines go. Suggestion on this! Have your paint shop paint the
middle white first, then fill in the blue and red later!
Also remember a number of dealerships did not paint the cars matador
red/frost white and commodore blue. Why? Easy. Because the cars looked like
red/white/black at the dragstrips at night. So many used a lighter blue.
Sort of like I did here on my SC/360. Something else to consider is some
used blue/white/red paint schemes, really nice looking also. Good luck
whatever your configuration, I'm sure it will look
great!
Eddie
Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
Eddie
You must have been reading my mind, I just took delivery on the car on
Sunday. And and and as you told me .......
beware it is a piece of junk. Boy did I get ripped off. Do
you know of an appraiser for cars, the fraud unit of EBay wants me to get it
appraised. Yes, at my ripe old age of 53, you would think would
know better, but after a pretty good life and two counts of cancer I thought
I could trust people. Well, if you know of an appraiser, please let me
know
Sincerely
Rod
Myers
713-xxx-xxxx
Houston
thanks again for supporting the AMX's
-----Original
Message-----
From: eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2005 9:37
AM To:
Myers, Rodney J
(HOU)
Subject: Re: AMX paint
What did you buy that you got screwed? Do you stil have the auction umber so
I could pull it up to look? As for apprasial, while I appraise cars, I am
not certified and this is something ebay probably requires. You will have to
look in the yellow pages I would guess. Someone you might try is contacting
the local Mopar club listed in my "links" section, to see if their club
knows anyone locally who can quickly do this for you.
Eddie
Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
Eddie
the auction
number is 4517489604,
This is a
mess
thanks
Eddie
Rod
-----Original
Message----- From: eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 11:57
AM To: Myers, Rodney J
(HOU) Subject: Re: AMX
paint
I checked it out, and it
is a typical ebay auction that shows mostly good points and not much bad
points. Hope you follow my advise and see what the ebay fraud unit can do to
possibly help with this, and possibly contact the seller. Might see if he
will take the car back, or particla refund. Keep me
posted,
Eddie Stakes'
Guess what. He had to go to the Harris County District Attorney. He got
a refund, not only for this piece of junk whihc was not worth $2000, but
also got back his $1000 for shipping the vehicle from Washington state to
Texas. He worked out a deal with the seller also keeping the car here while
it was relisted, again, wheras it sold, again, this time for $6500 to
someone in FL who is now stuck with problem child.
I guess the moral of the story is some of what I tell people on the
Shut Up & Drive Lists. Be patient, don't impulse buy, do your homework.
It's not that I don't think our cars are worth a lot of money, but they were
low end cars targeted to frugal people. AMC built some of the best cars ever
built in America. And it is a sad commentary they are no longer with us. But
it is also testimonial as to how well they were built that many are still
around, from a little 58 Rambler to a well, that 81 Concord.
There are many a Brand X (Big 3?) car I can think of that are not worth
a lot of money either I guess. Furthermore, I would love for some of you to
come to Houston and walk with me thru the Houston Pick A Parts www.houstonpickapart.com and look
at the litter. Do you know that they have a seperate section you have to pay
a extra dollar to get into? It is fenced off, and is cars from the 1990s to
current! Yes, disposable cars like Geo, Toyota, Nissan, Diewithyou, Hyundai,
Mazda, and many American makes like Pontiac, GM, and Chrysler. Most of
these cars were not totalled out, just outlived their usefulness.
Usefullness. Like many things now a days, it was cheaper to junk it than fix
it. Computers, phones, teevees, DVD players, VCRs, I can keep going by my
point is that whether Big Three owner (who a majority of them will
always think AMC worthless, no matter if Y3K) import owner, whoever, I
don't think AMCers think their cars are actually 'worthless'. Some are
investments but that has to be measured not only financially, but also by
other means, like say, someone building their own engine.
And while many of the bread and butter AMC cars don't bring 'much
money' (again this term is different from person to person) like four
doors, wagons, and many six cylinder vehicles, even certain models like
Marlina nd Pacer (not singling them out, both nice, but also have limits)
most of the focus is on the muscle cars AMC built.
And even that in 2005 isn't possibly where it shuold be. I might have a
68 AMX coming in from Louisiana this month bought for $1200. I just got
a email from a Eagle owner:
Dear Eddie,
Our son has the title to our old 1981 AMC Eagle station
wagon in
Cleveland. His father-in-law (soon to be exFIL) is
insisting he
remove the car from his premises, like
yesterday.
Would you or anyone you know be interested in buying the car
before
the end of the week? So far as we know the waterpump
is out of it
so it would need to be towed or moved on a
trailer.
Clayton's cell phone number is 713-xxx-xxxx.
Clayton
Blachly. He is off work today (he works in
Houston...near
Humble)...needing to get new glasses, etc.
Trivia: His son Jakob was born June, 20, 2003.
Thank you for your time.
I called them up tonight, $300 or best offer. If I don't buy it, guess
what, chances are I'll see it at pick a part in a month. A sympathy buy!
That don't help the cause of what Big Three owners think, but if I worried
about what Big Three Owners have always thought, I would not have owned
almost 300 of these cars now, nor invested thousands of dollars the past
several decades trying to save old AMCs or reproducing parts for them
either.
How many of you remember the six years it took to sell my 71
Matador with 14,000 miles? Rare body stlye, few made, detail and paint and
show. Took $2650 for it. How many remember the hit Brad Denning
recently took financially on that one 71 Matador Machine? And for well over
a year now, I have toyed with the idea that this 74 Hornet Sportabout DL
wagon, a ex demonstrator, that runs, drives, stops, is worth 3X more in
parts than whole. Can't sell for $600 even with tons of ads. I could however
sell the single piston Kelsey Hayes setup for $350, hood for $100, and
windshield for $100 and have broke even.
It's no big deal. And it all has to be taken into perspective. I might
have said it best on the SUAD Feb 2005 when I compared all the excitement
over the Knapp's 69 AMX (stunning car!) sold at Barrett Jackson auction for
$57K (unofficially) and a pair of damned chickens sold here in Houston at
the rodeo for $60K. :~P Long day ya'll just enjoy them don't worry
abuot what they may, or may not be worth.........
Eddie stakes
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