Re: [AMC-list] AMC-list Digest, Vol 4, Issue 57

["gorhodes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx" <gorhodes@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Help.I need 196 six cylinder motor for 1961 Rambler Station wagon.Anybody got one?



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Sent: Friday, July 31, 2009 2:00:31 PM
Subject: AMC-list Digest, Vol 4, Issue 57

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Pin in Pin out and WAIT a minute! OBD2 requires    re-flash
      (Joe Fulton)
   2. *Sigh* (jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxx)
   3. Re: weather in Seattle (waaay off topic but may be of
      interest) (Jim Blair)
   4. What a good, NAY GREAT! Idea... (jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxx)
   5. Good advice...here's the scuttlebutt.. (jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxx)


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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 14:29:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: Joe Fulton <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-list] Pin in Pin out and WAIT a minute! OBD2
    requires    re-flash
To: Rambler Nash Jeep and familyAMC <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <996392.88500.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1


Wow, it's great to have someone on the list who knows what he's talking about.  I'll shut up.

Joe Fulton

--- On Thu, 7/30/09, Jesse <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> From: Jesse <j2sax@xxxxxxxxx>
> Subject: [AMC-list] Pin in Pin out and WAIT a minute! OBD2 requires re-flash
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Date: Thursday, July 30, 2009, 2:20 PM
> Wow, leaving for vacation and no time
> for detials, however, on a pin test. you need a breakdown of
> what pins on the vehicle side of the ECM connector go to
> what and what the voltages are supposed to be and, in some
> cases, what conditions change the voltage.? 
> 
> You will first find the ground pin and check it to make
> sure you have a good ground circuit to the ecm.? Then
> you will use that ground to CAREFULLY measure the voltage at
> each pin and compare it with the required amount.? Make
> sure your voltmeter is set to the proper range and make SURE
> you do not cross pins.? There has to be a club or forum
> somewhere that can supply you with the specifics for your
> vehicle...HOWEVER, BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING ELSE.....
> 
> You mentioned this was a 1996 and that you put in a
> junkyard ECM... did you have the ECM flash re-programmed to
> your specific vehicle?? If not that is the source of
> all your problems.? All 96 and up Domestic vehicles
> have a Flash RAM Module that controls the ECM.? It USED
> to be that there was a removeable, hard-coded chip (PROM)
> but hte new vehicles have a RAM chip which accepts new
> software just llike a USB drive or digital camera with an SD
> card.? 
> 
> Chryslers actually have a 2-3 step process for
> reprogramming.? If either your vehicle or the one you
> got the ECM fromm had a anti-theft system there are
> procedures taht have to be followed.? In addition to
> that and the OE calibration software upload, in Chryslers
> you also have a separate step to "upload the VIN, mileage
> and Pinion factor".? 
> 
> Very few aftermarket shops have the capbilities to do this
> as it requires specific hardware that allows communication
> through the ALDL port (diagnositic plug under your dash) to
> the OE website that allows the upload.? (Either a
> factory diagnostic tool or a properly equipped PC with a
> pass through device will work.)? 
> 
> In most cases you have to go to a dealership to get it
> done, but check around to see if someone in the aftermarket
> can do it more inexpensively.? 
> 
> Do NOT let someone offer to program it "off the vehicle" as
> this rarely works on Chryslers and NEVER with one that has
> antitheft
> 
> do NOT let some guy with a Snap On "Brick" tell you he can
> do it.? The only thing he will be able to do is upload
> the VIN/Mileage/Pinion factor.? The ECM calibration
> file can ONLY be done with a Flash Reprogramming
> device.? 
> 
> Finally, make sure that they check for "relearn
> procedures".? In some vehicles, when you introduce a
> new ECM into the engine management enviroment, the inputs
> and controlled devices will not "play nice" until they are
> properly introduced to the ECM, which requires a specific
> procedure to be done, even after the Flash.? Any
> dealership will know this, if it is required.? 
> 
> Gotta run, good luck!? 
> 
> Jesse
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-list mailing list
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> 


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Message: 2
Date: 30 Jul 2009 22:21:20 -0000
From: jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-list] *Sigh*
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
    www.amcyclopedia.org&nid=5402&pid=0&cid=12922&uid=793&tid=353053fc796fce8e9e23efae6b8463efdf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

I had far more devious ideas for that thing until this got as deep as it has. 
Absolutely noone seems to have any idea wtf is the deal with this pile of
problems...
Since it has baffled everyone so extraordinarily, and since there isn't a
prayer that it's going to pass without my finding out WTF is doing this...it
is now a 'gottagotta'.
Seems I am the chosen one into whose lap falls these kinds of deals...I'm the
one others generally come to when all else has failed (I do not hesitate to
ask for suggestions even when I'm kind of sure I know what's up because it
facilitates the fixin's.  I've found some pretty bizarre stuff which had
driven the owners past the edge but most generally it turns out to be
someone's, umm, for lack of a better word, 'previous repairs'.  Imagine: disk
pads in backwards (metal facing the disk), primary and secondary shoes
reversed, a replaced steer knuckle from the wrong vehicle which appeared
EXACTLY like the right one but for one hole's placement...and that hole
controled alignment disallowing correct camber and causing the drive axle to
simple 'walk' out on every hard left if acceleration was present..about an
axle a week...wrong parts of other types, etc, etc, etc...  This stuff is
near impossible to find when you aren't aware of the previous 'work'..and
when you find it, it makes you wonder...WHAT ELSE??..
Anyway, this truck has other fingerprints on it since it left NewJersey and
therein, I'm willing to bet, lies the issue.
I WILL FIND IT.  Whether it's a previous COBJOB, or some hugely major set of
impossible circumstances causing a result that occurs only once every
twentymillion years or just some 'quirk', since I'm so committed to this
(man, the amount of time already is NUTSO!)..
I WILL FIND IT.
I can't do a SarahPalin and walk away...and let this crap 'win'??  Not A
Chance...
I will check each and every wire into and out of the computer for voltage at
both ends...it HAS to be (has to be??  Ain't 'has to be'
nothing...*Sigh*)electronic signal failing to tell the fuel injectors 'large
squirt and lots of it' when the accelerator is mashed.

Who wants to provide me with 'best guesses' as to 'the culprit'?  

I have the feeling when found, after the euphoria, it's going to be one of
those, 'you wont believe this, but...'...

You know.  Something like squiril gnawing the insulation on some wire which
can't be seen without removing the engine or something.  Or mouse pee
shorting out some hidden connector...  Or ...well, I'll find out.

When I get back, that is.

Off to Missouri next week.  When I get back, the Ram is gonna 'give it up'. 
Count on it.
..
I hope.

Maybe.

Jj

One of you guys is gonna tell me the secret...




------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 19:09:41 -0700
From: Jim Blair <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-list] weather in Seattle (waaay off topic but may be
    of    interest)
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <SNT117-W470D0ED3AB62DB2ABCE5CAC100@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"


I went to my aunt's funeral a couple days ago. They figure the heat made her dizzy and caused her to fall, which in turn caused a stroke that finished her. (she was '91 and still living on her own, but my cousins had been trying to talk her into moving into a "home") My mom just turned 80 (right after I turned 50) and we stayed over at her place before the funeral. We arrived the night before the funeral and the temp in her place was still hovering at 90 at 11PM, so I helped her ventilate the place (re-taught her the basic physics of heat going up and being trapped against the ceiling and that running a fan in a closed room just adds heat)
   Right after the funeral (100 degrees F in Chilliwack, BC, Canada) my wife and I zipped back and picked her up an AC unit for her birthday (got the last one of 200 put out that AM at Home Depot) To say she was happy with her present would be an understatement.
   Just a little tech for some, who like me, have a house where the air is trapped at the ceiling. Get a dryer hose to the top point inside and run it to a fan at your window. That will cool your house the fastest because it will push the hottest air out first.
   Adding an insulation pad (or even a silver or blue tarp) to your roof will also help deflect the heat. (also works on shops. I plan to add sheet metal to the roof of my shop with an insulation pad in between) 
   I've been watching with interest testing done by a shop owner I know in Canada. He was planning a new metal roof and was testing the common colors for temp saturation. Similar 1 foot square pieces of white, black, green, red and pale blue were checked. Blue and white were the coolest (blue by almost 10 degrees less than white!), black and red were almost the same with green about the middle temp. This was at 75 degrees. I'm waiting to hear what it was like at 100 degrees.
   I'd like to put a solar panel on the sunniest side of my shop (it was pretty warm in there today) to run an AC unit.
   My cabin has about 12" of insulation in the ceiling and I've been doing R30 in the walls. It was a nice 70 degrees in there when I left at 3PM.


Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10






----------------------------------------
> Date: Thu, 30 Jul 2009 15:56:58 -0700
> From: john@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To: deichert@xxxxxxxxxx
> CC: fsj@xxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: fsj: weather in Seattle
>
> surprisingly no, the media is not blaming "global warming" or even "climate change".
> It think they've finally realized it's junk science.
>
> no, they're blaming this on a high pressure ridge stuck here from the Yukon down to no Cal.
>
> I worked at wafer fab V from Oct '83 until Aug '85. :) what'd you do at Intel?
>
>
> I was in Germany in the mid '70's when we had a heat wave like this... upper 80's, low '90s...
> old Germans were dropping like flies... no one had a/c even in their cars back then...
>
> I grew up in Northern Illinois, we had no a/c either... many, many sleepless nights
> in hot, sticky, muggy, nasty weather... yuck.
>
> btw, the media is starting to talk about the coming ice age again...
>
> whatever gets their agenda through the public is fine with them it seems. ;)
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: 31 Jul 2009 12:54:01 -0000
From: jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-list] What a good, NAY GREAT! Idea...
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
    www.amcyclopedia.org&nid=5402&pid=12920&cid=12923&uid=793&tid=350c30d2bb652c8177d028485e97888b86@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Greetings,
That's the very very best idea I've heard on this so far...  I don't think I
mind WHO finds the problem, but I dammed sure want to know What it is. 
Nay...not want...but NEED to know.  
This is the most difficult issue I've encountered in a motor vehicle I can
recall.  It's the only 'unsolvable' one so far.  And since noone has been
able to locate it, it gots ta be a tuffie!
Jj



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: 31 Jul 2009 13:18:48 -0000
From: jerijan@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-list] Good advice...here's the scuttlebutt..
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
    www.amcyclopedia.org&nid=5405&pid=0&cid=12924&uid=793&tid=358348ec457ae21a35c900965dafc5e6bc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
    
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed

Greetings,
This truck does have an antitheft device; it is it's own punishment for any
thief, but I think that's about it.
The '96 speedo is not electronic so the ECU's kinda swap in and out...not
vehicle specific exactly that I know of.  It should, however, want to be
advised it's in a new home I would think...(how do you tell it?  Thru that
port you mentioned, of course).
I don't know if the ecu was previously replaced and not reprogrammed (why
would that not surprise me?).
The problem is that I just don't know alot of stuff about 'this new stuff' (my
cars, other than the Ram are from '54 thru '88...plus the Miata and the RAM. 
The Miata never stops running well, the RAM never starts running right...and
the rest are fixable with a screwdriver, pliers, hammer and a few good cuss
words...  
BUT..
I can see how an antitheft device could do this...it could stop, for example,
fuel from being delivered to the injectors oriface if the truck 'thinks' it's
been 'stolen'...and...*plink!*..idles good, but nothing more.  (However, do
keep in mind the 'lack of snot' from the start with this truck has been
'growing' until it got to where it is now...so it's something that was
developing.  (It makes me think of a filter clogging more and more...except
the fuel pressure and volume belie that).  I can't say this was exactly a
gradual development, but...not having anyone able to find a problem...I knew
something was amiss, but never could find it..or have it found.
Now it's got to be found...the truck is useless otherwise.

Jj




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