Re: [Amc-list] 64-69 Amer/Jav/AMX upper trunnions vs. ball joints

[Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>]

I'm all for modernization but I don't know why you'd want to replace the 
  reliable and long-lived trunnion system ('cept for pre-64 
Americans...) with crappy ball joints. Alternators, electric wipers, 
tires, fuels, paints, lubes yes, ball joints?

It was a system to save manufacturers money. They are NOT "better". They 
are simpler. But that one ball and socket deals with forces in multiple 
planes, and the final straw, for me, is the quality of available parts 
which has plummeted to CRAP. The spring perch system sucks too, it 
concentrates force on a single rubber bushing.

I'm talking about street cars, road racing etc there's really good 
aftermarket stuff.

The 63-66? "big car" trunnion is the most reliable, long-lived, lowest 
friction, adjustable, repairable. It takes a "normal" size spring. The 
only wear parts are the press-in bushings (same as all AMCs) and the 
thrush bearing, which last 200K miles and are generic parts. The other 
stuff, if you grease it EVER, lasts forever.


If you wanna come over and put your pre-70 AMX-style trunnions in my 70 
Hornet, you can have all the ball joint arm parts including the spring 
tower metal :-)

But all the 64-up and big-car 62 up have that miserable lower strut 
bushing system. Yeah, it works fine, and John Elle pointed out the 
subtleties (eg. the one press-fit of the inner bushing, and the twisting 
forces), the main problem today being parts quality.

At least the pre-64 American has a lower A-arm, though I wonder at it's 
ultimate strength.



Frank Swygert wrote:
> Even if the spring tower isn't 100% identical on the 70+ Javelin/Hornet as the 64-69 American/Javelin/AMX, the "upgrade" to 70 style suspension can still be done with a bit of careful cutting and welding. The main difference is the location of the upper a-arm mounts on the body. The mounts are straight across on the older cars, the upper arm is angled toward the back on the newer ones to give some "anti-dive" effect when braking hard. For normal drivers it's not enough of an improvement to be worth all the trouble, and certainly takes more time and money than rebuilding the original suspension. Maybe for a road racer though. 
> 
> I'm not sure if the upper arm mounting locations are the same distance apart on the old and new models or not. If they are, and the A-arm is about the same length as the older models, it wouldn't be hard to replace the upper trunnion with a ball joint -- just replace the upper arm, steering knuckle, and spring. The old model shock can be retained, no need to put a shock inside the spring. The spring rates are VERY different due to the location of the spring. On the old cars it's directly above the steering knuckle, on the newer ones it's moved about 3-4" inward. The inward location needs a higher spring rate (stronger spring) to give the same feel as the further out location. Location had to be changed to clear the ball joint. The angle of the spring should be okay in the old style towers, but I haven't tried this -- it's all theoretical until someone does! I need a Hornet or Gremlin parts car to experiment with... or Javelin...
> 
> 
> -----------
> Date: Tue, 15 Jul 2008 10:38:42 -0400 (EDT)
> From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] SCORE!!! (i think??....) -- 58-63 American
> 	front end
> 
> " From: Davis Martin <martin-davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> " 
> " I am talking about 1967 so I guess it would be a newer trunion setup.
> " Would the AMX trunions be the same? I have only ever worked on 70 and
> " up stuff.
> 
> yup, '64-9 american/javelin/amx front suspension is all the same,
> barring a balljoint upgrade mid-'66.
> 
> the spring tower sheetmetal is even the same, which makes me wonder if
> you could convert a '64-9 american to all balljoint suspension with
> '70 javelin/amx spring tower panels.  i know the '69 and '70 amx are
> close enough that the fenders, hood, and grille all swap, so the
> spring tower panels -should- have the same general outlines.  someone
> with a crash book could tell if the '68-9 spring tower panel was the
> same part for americans, javelins, and amxes, and if the other inner
> fender panels were the same on '68-'70 amxes and/or javelins.
> 

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