Re: [Amc-list] Nick Frank or Davis - thermostats

[Davis Martin <martin-davis@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

JT,
   I would use a 180 degree t stat. If you are running hot make sure your cooling system is flushed well. Be sure the radiator is nice and clean inside did you have it professionally flushed? Also be sure you are running a good fan shroud and fan. Those are the typical reason for a new engine to run hot. Also large over bore engines (.060) tend to run hotter. 
   hope this helps
Davis 

  Guys,
Do you have a recommendation for a thermostat brand/heat range on a
newly rebuilt, mainly stock AMC 360 4BBL. I have the 6090 heads from an
73 
AMC 401 if that helps. After my break-in, my engine seems to be running
hot.

J T


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Today's Topics:

1. Re: Zinc oils/roller engine/scraper (Sandwich Maker)
2. Re: Engine Interchange, 58 Rambler American (Jim Blair)
3. Re: Engine Interchange, 58 Rambler American
(Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx)
4. 401 oil mods (Nick ALFANO)
5. Re: IH auto question (Jim Blair)
6. Re: Swap 2.5 AMC for 2.5 Iron Duke in Eagle (Sandwich Maker)
7. Re: Swap 2.5 AMC for 2.5 Iron Duke in Eagle (Jim Blair)
8. Re: flat tappet oil (Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx)
9. Re: IH auto question (Sandwich Maker)
10. Re: Bend Over & Grab your Ankels - Combustion Chamber
'Groovin' (Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx)
11. Re: Zinc oils/roller engine/scraper (Jim Blair)
12. Re: Turboed AMC 2.5 L (Greg Taylor)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 12:59:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Zinc oils/roller engine/scraper
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200803191659.m2JGxLI14404@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

" From: Frank Swygert 
" 
" 4. Fram isn't the only one to have had problems.
" []
" I was told that some NAPA filters (and a couple other brands, probably
sourced from the same manufacturer) did the same, but they were quickly
pulled from the shelves.
" []
" So a lot of people won't use Fram to this day. 

it's been a while since i trolled the filter-comparison sites, but back
then the highest rated filter with the most consistently good quality
was ac delco.

i recall that many of the brands you see are actually the same and made
by the same few plants.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:03:14 -0700
From: Jim Blair 
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Engine Interchange, 58 Rambler American
To: "amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx" 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

A: If something were to happen and say a reasonably pristine Rambler
with a dead 196 were to fall into my hands (MUAHAHAHAHA!) then I would
be VERY tempted to mod the intake/exhaust of an AMC 2.5L to run in the
car. (tuck the header pipe closer, lift and curl the intake runners
similar to late model Ford 300s) I picked up a fun looking little carb
(Arram?) that is variable venturi that might end up on the BG241 IH
motor to see if a little more oomph and MPGs can be squeezed out of it
(6 MPG! Liquid gold flushed away down the HO*LE* 1 bbl!) before we give
up.


From: Frank Swygert 
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Engine Interchange, 58 Rambler American
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <47E07F22.9050007@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Mark, you're pretty much SOL. All the later sixes are way to long for
the "small" American body (58-63). You will have to rebuild the engine
you have or swap something else in. That probably gets you to thinking
a modern four would be good, but those have a problem -- they are too
WIDE for the small American engine bay due to the intake manifold being
far from the engine. Some may fit, but not without some sheet metal
surgery under the hood, and then it will still be tight. A 60 degree V-6
sounds good, but has the same width problem
-- the accessories are mounted "wide" on all the rear drive
configurations. 
If you don't mind spending money on "hot rod" style accessory mounts,
any 60*
V-6 (2.8L - 3.4L Chevy, 2.9L - 4.0L Ford) can be made to work. You'll
need the transmission too, and will need to have the driveshaft
modified. Due to the accessory brackets and even changing some of them,
this can be expensive!

There is, however, a reasonably affordable swap -- a Ford 200 or 250
I-6. 
They are small bore/long stroke just like the old 195.6, and are short
enough to fit! They also have the intake cast as part of the head, and
are narrow enough too. Don't confuse the 200/250 with the older 240
(used through 64 or so in cars and trucks) or 300 (used through the 90s
in trucks only). Those are too long! 

I would try to find a 250 from a mid 80s car. I'd only use a 200 if you
run across one at a great deal (many Mustangs and Falcons came with
them and are being converted to V-8s), why when you can get the bigger
model for about the same price? You will need the transmission and have
to have the driveshaft modified, but it won't be costly. In fact, it
won't cost any more than rebuilding a 195.6, even if you have to rebuild
the Ford six. There is the engine mount issue, but that can be solved
relatively easy. 

I wouldn't normally condone swapping a non-AMC engine in an AMC, but in
this case it's not a bad idea. The 195.6 is dependable, but it's costly
to rebuild and many parts are very hard to find. The Ford parts are
still readily available, at least by overnight delivery from a
warehouse. Getting the correct water pump for a 195.6 is difficult,
even when waiting several days for it to come in! It will cost $1000+
to properly rebuild the 195.6. That includes boring oversize and
getting new pistons, and if you do a lot of the work. It cost me around
$800 when I built one in the early 90s, and I was told I got the last
set of pistons NAPA had on the east coast. Now you have to get them
from Egge Machine, or get lucky and find an NOS set. I have a set, but
forget now if they are L-head or OHV pistons -- I think they are
L-head. Saving for a "rainy day" project... So if restoring, build the
original engine -- nothing more you can do! If it's a driver, well,
store the original and make bolt-on mods where you can. 

_________________________________________________________________
Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail?-get
your "fix".
http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 17:19:22 +0000
From: Wrambler242@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Engine Interchange, 58 Rambler American
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." 
Message-ID:

<031920081719.6597.47E14B1A000C8876000019C52216566276CDCBCD0A0C079D9F059
D0E03@xxxxxxxxxxx>


Now. me, I would go with a Turbo'd AMC 2.5L Pushing thru an 700r4 since
it is a BOLTUP transmission!
Way to tempting to pass up.
Think about it.
It stays AMC, It gets an O/D trans that has all kinds of backing in the
aftermarket, plus that low first gear to get the little 2.5 rolling and
up into boost quick!
Man, think 7lb of boost or so and second gear shift would be a
handlfull!!!
Clear the fenderwheels?
Come on, go look on evil bay at 2.5L intakes. You could not ask for an
easier intake to mod.
Pick up a header to feed the turbo and modify it. 
If you got lucky you could use the cast exhaust and wrap the pipe under
the engine and put the turbo on the right side. lok at some of the
Wrangler series headers as they actualy wrap under the engine to begin
with!
Even normally asperated you could get a fun litle package put
together pretty easily.
Forget the six since AMC never gave us a good V6.
Unless you want to consider the 4.7L dodge V8 as AMC's last design as
some do.
Then you could look at the 3.7L family of dodge V6's as "from the same
line".

Dare to be different! [as long as it's AMC powered]....

--
Mark Price
Morgantown, WV
1969 AMC Rambler, 4.0L, EFI, T-5
2004 Grand Cherokee Laredo, 4.7L, Quadratrc II " Chronic Pain Hurts"

-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Jim Blair 
> A: If something were to happen and say a reasonably pristine Rambler 
> with a dead
> 196
> were to fall into my hands (MUAHAHAHAHA!) then I would be VERY tempted

> to mod the intake/exhaust of an AMC 2.5L to run in the car. (tuck the 
> header pipe closer, lift and curl the intake runners similar to late 
> model Ford 300s) I picked up a fun looking little carb (Arram?) that 
> is variable venturi that might end up on the BG241 IH motor to see if 
> a little more oomph and MPGs can be squeezed out of it (6 MPG! Liquid 
> gold flushed away down the HO*LE* 1 bbl!) before we give up.
> 
> 
> From: Frank Swygert 
> Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Engine Interchange, 58 Rambler American
> To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <47E07F22.9050007@xxxxxxx>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
> 
> Mark, you're pretty much SOL. All the later sixes are way to long for

> the "small" American body (58-63). You will have to rebuild the 
> engine you have or swap something else in. That probably gets you to 
> thinking a modern four would be good, but those have a problem -- 
> they are too WIDE for the small American engine bay due to the intake 
> manifold being far from the engine. Some may fit, but not without 
> some sheet metal surgery under the hood, and then it will still be 
> tight. A 60 degree V-6 sounds good, but has the same width problem
> -- the accessories are mounted "wide" on all the rear drive
configurations. 
> If you don't mind spending money on "hot rod" style accessory mounts,

> any 60*
> V-6 (2.8L - 3.4L Chevy, 2.9L - 4.0L Ford) can be made to work. You'll

> need the transmission too, and will need to have the driveshaft 
> modified. Due to the accessory brackets and even changing some of
them, this can be expensive!
> 
> There is, however, a reasonably affordable swap -- a Ford 200 or 250
I-6. 
> They are small bore/long stroke just like the old 195.6, and are 
> short enough to fit! They also have the intake cast as part of the 
> head, and are narrow enough too. Don't confuse the 200/250 with the 
> older 240 (used through 64 or so in cars and trucks) or 300 (used 
> through the 90s in trucks only). Those are too long!
> 
> I would try to find a 250 from a mid 80s car. I'd only use a 200 if 
> you run across one at a great deal (many Mustangs and Falcons came 
> with them and are being converted to V-8s), why when you can get the 
> bigger model for about the same price? You will need the transmission

> and have to have the driveshaft modified, but it won't be costly. In 
> fact, it won't cost any more than rebuilding a 195.6, even if you have

> to rebuild the Ford six. There is the engine mount issue, but that can

> be solved relatively easy.
> 
> I wouldn't normally condone swapping a non-AMC engine in an AMC, but 
> in this case it's not a bad idea. The 195.6 is dependable, but it's 
> costly to rebuild and many parts are very hard to find. The Ford 
> parts are still readily available, at least by overnight delivery 
> from a warehouse. Getting the correct water pump for a 195.6 is 
> difficult, even when waiting several days for it to come in! It will 
> cost $1000+ to properly rebuild the 195.6. That includes boring 
> oversize and getting new pistons, and if you do a lot of the work. It

> cost me around $800 when I built one in the early 90s, and I was told

> I got the last set of pistons NAPA had on the east coast. Now you 
> have to get them from Egge Machine, or get lucky and find an NOS set.

> I have a set, but forget now if they are L-head or OHV pistons -- I 
> think they are L-head. Saving for a "rainy day" project... So if 
> restoring, build the original engine -- nothing more you can do! If
it's a driver, well, store the original and make bolt-on mods where you
can.
> 
> _________________________________________________________________
> Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your
Hotmail(r)-get 
> your "fix".
> http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx
> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was 
> scrubbed...
> URL: 
> http://splatter.wps.com/pipermail/amc-list/attachments/20080319/7f2a3f
> 9e/attachm
> ent.htm
> _______________________________________________
> Amc-list mailing list
> Amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://splatter.wps.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/amc-list



------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick ALFANO <71amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [Amc-list] 401 oil mods
To: amc list 
Message-ID: <29987.60001.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Davis, 

I agree. Some think secrets about what they do to an engine are what
make them seem knowledgeable and in demand (some even like we are
competing for a prize). I have a couple 70 390s that we will probably
dyno if the customer gives me the go ahead. I would be more than happy
to list the specs on any of them. They are both 10.5:1 engines on pump
gas. Both have hydraulic roller cams with very different specs as one
was put together for a Rebel Machine using the stock exhaust manifolds
and intake so it will be interesting to see how well it worked. 

I did list a while back the specs for a 401 we built with ported
Edelbrock heads and a roller cam for a 70 shadow mask AMX that was in
Popular Hot Rodding 2 years ago. It had over 500 hp on pump gas, never
got about 185 degrees and the guy could drive it anywhere. 

I have another 401 with the Indy heads, solid roller cam using my shaft
rocker set up that I will be putting on the dyno later this spring. We
plan to test it with a carb and then switch over to the new Fuel
Injection kit we are working on to see where the differences are. 


Nick

Alfano Performance
4849-76 st.
Kenosha, WI. 53142
262-308-1302
262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends 


Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2008 19:31:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Davis Martin 
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] 401 Oil Mods
To: "AMC/Rambler owners, drivers and fans." 
Message-ID: <50556.2115.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Armand,
I have a sprare set of nice thick stainless flanges if you need them
Email me off list.
I Will definitly post all the engne specs from th eblue print sheet
and then th edyno results.
I hope that our testing helps other AmCers
I think it sucks folks want to keep secrets about what they did to get
X out of their amc engine.
Davis 


------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:29:12 -0700
From: Jim Blair 
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] IH auto question
To: "amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx" 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

So what parts would I need to mate the 258 to the BW? V8 bell and zero
balanced flexplate? Starter? I like to try to keep projects fairly
mobile and haven't been able to keep up this past year (since my broken
rib in the rollover last spring)

Jim Blair, Lynnwood, WA '87 Comanche, '83 Jeep J10, '84 Jeep J10
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] IH auto question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200803191344.m2JDiDH05828@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

" From: Jim Blair 
" 
" '66 to '69 Travelall with IH 304 auto (2wd) is supposed to have a BW
auto? If so, any relation to anything AMC?

yup, iron case, same as amc. switched to tf in '72, same as amc...
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx 

_________________________________________________________________
Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging.?You IM, we
give.
http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join
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Message: 6
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 13:34:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Swap 2.5 AMC for 2.5 Iron Duke in Eagle
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200803191734.m2JHYkS15817@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

" From: Frank Swygert 
" 
" The Iron Duke as used by AMC (and all pre-84 AFAIK) use the small "
block Chevy bell pattern. Later ones use the same pattern as the AMC "
four -- the small Chevy pattern (used on most, if not all, fours and "
all 60 degree V-6s, and the Cadillac 4.1/4.5L V-8s -- not sure if the "
Northstar uses it or not, but might). 

the northstar and 'shortstar' v6 both do, and many of gm's 'newer'
engines, including the last gen of the buick v6 used briefly by kaiser.

" A suspension designer who worked for Jeep at the time claims that the
" XJ was intentionally designed NOT to use the AMC I-6 because the "
designer "didn't like it".

many old-line jeepers thought the relatively big, heavy straight six was
a disaster for a little 4x4.

" I'm not sure how the engine mounts changed in the Eagle when they "
switched to the AMC four. It was only used a year or two before being "
dropped. I suggest you visit the Eagle Nest (www.amceaglenest.com) and "
ask about the engine mounts. 

i was just told by a senior jeep mechanic that the mounts are the same
and in the same place as the six mounts - 'it's just like a six with the
front 2 cylinders cut off'. they don't carry the same p/n in the
'94-6 parts manual though.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought


------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:35:30 -0700
From: Jim Blair 
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Swap 2.5 AMC for 2.5 Iron Duke in Eagle
To: "amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx" , 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Find an '84 up Eagle with AMC 4 cyl and score the mounts and engine
crossbar. You'll need the trans bell too (if std trans. If 904 auto, I
can sell you the whole trans or just the trans case, flex plate and
converter from an XJ that had TBI). Still have the T5 crossbar sitting
here from the '83 J10 (TOTALLY forgot about it till I tripped over it
yesterday!)
AX-5 is easy to swap IF the input shaft is the same. (we just pulled one
from my son's GF's XJ that we made 4x4 after the tip of the 2wd shifter
dropped inside the trans when it wouldn't shift due to a suddenly broken
clutch pedal!)

From: Frank Swygert 
Subject: Re: [Amc-list] Swap 2.5 AMC for 2.5 Iron Duke in Eagle
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <47E12B01.8050106@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

The Iron Duke as used by AMC (and all pre-84 AFAIK) use the small block
Chevy bell pattern. Later ones use the same pattern as the AMC four --

=== message truncated ===
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