Re: [Amc-list] Where has all the 20-W-50 motor oil Gone?

[adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)]

" From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
" 
" It's getting oil change time again and I went out to stock up the oil
" shelf with 20-W-50 and the shelf's at COSCO and Wally World are bare. 
" I have not seen 20-W-50 at COSCO for over a month and when I went by
" Wally World, they had one 5 gallon jug of their house brand oil 
" and 12 quarts of the house brand oil. All of brands of 20-W-50 not
" present except a couple of qt. bottles of Castrol. 
" As I would rather have Wally World house brand 20-W-50 than not have any
" at all I bought it. But how-come it isn't there any more. 
" Anyone have a clue?

there probably aren't enough older high-clearance engines to warrant
carrying it anymore.

there's been an oil thread over on the strokers list.  if you're
trying to protect your older engine from cam wear and failure, what it
comes down to is zinc and phosphorus levels; they've been reduced as
they slowly poison catalysts, and modern roller tappet valvetrains
don't need it anyway.  [maybe cause and effect?]  the article kyung
linked to is especially enlightening; the old zinc phosphate levels
were apparently set from research published in a 1977 sae paper it
mentions.

in short, what most of us want to look for is an API rating of SG, SH,
SI, or if necessary CI.  or add a can of GM EOS with every change.


" From: "John Edwards" 
" Date: Sat, 16 Jun 2007 22:26:47 -0400
" Subject: Re: [strokers] Oil
" 
" 
" The key is to look at the ANSI symbol on the bottle. The "old " good stuff =
" is labeled CI. Whereas the newer, less ZDDP oil is labeled CJ.

this also applies to API S-rated oil.  the split was about SH/SI/SJ.
[btw C means 'compression', eg. diesel; S means 'spark']

" Rotella is available in both formulations.
" In my case I have used both Rotella and Castrol diesel CI oils. ALWAYS with=
"  a bottle of GM EOS for added insurance.

this is concentrated ZDDP additive.

" This would apply to any flat tappet cam regardless of make
" 
" JPE
" New Baltimore, Mi.


" From: Kyung Kim 
" Date: Sun, 17 Jun 2007 14:00:06 -0700
" Subject: Re: [strokers] Oil
" 
" 
" Here's a great link for you guys.
" http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
" 
" Kyung


" From: "Harrel" 
" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 17:36:54 -0000
" Subject: [strokers] Herb McCandless recommends Valvoline Premium Blue Oil
" 
" During the Mopar Movie Night at Evansville Chrysler, (while on the 
" Power Tour) Herb McCandless (drove for Sox & Martin Pro Stock) spoke 
" about the modern oils and the effects of the lack of Zinc and 
" Phosphates.  He (and Chrysler) recommended the Valvoline Premium Blue 
" for all engines, especially flat-tappet camshaft motors.  Valvoline 
" Premium Blue data sheet link is listed below.  It is a CJ-4 ANSI 
" class but it has 1.6% by weight ZDP content.
" 
" http://msds.ashland.com/ShowMSDS.asp?M=0391987&C=005&D=505&L=EN&F=ANSI&N=PREMIUM+BLUE+CEMP+15W40+CJ%2D4+BULK


" From: Simon Juncal 
" Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2007 21:32:05 -0500
" Subject: Re: [strokers] Oil
" 
" John Edwards wrote:
" > 
" > 
" > The plus 40 weights are a trade off. While I agree that a 30 + oil is 
" > great for summer time. There is a trade off.
" > We found that during extensive dyno testing.  40 and above can cause 
" > ring sticking after extended usage.
" >  
" > The only tome you want 50 weight is when you are selling an oil burner 
" > and want it not to smoke 8>)
" 
" Or you're doing the same thing but has low oil pressure.
" 
" Some people swear by 20W50 especially older folks with older vehicles. 
" but IMHO there's no way it can lubricate a modern tolerance engine 
" quickly enough during startup's when most of the wear happens.
" It also adds needless parasitic drag on power and fuel efficiency.
" 
" I've got 5W20 M1 in my Stroker and since the cam is well past the 
" seeming "danger zone" of 0 to 30,000 miles, and my Oil pressure is fine, 
" and the thing gets nearly 20MPG mixed driving on 33" tires 4.56 gears 
" and heavy right foot. I don't see any reason to change, except that I'd 
" like to find a higher ZDDP oil in that weight because it's not just for 
" break in, it effect long term wear as well.
" 
" Unfortunately the Oil companies seem to be completely dropping the ball 
" on this probably in an attempt to keep Hot Rodders, Drag racers, 
" Off-roaders and other Car hobbyists from abandoning their "standard" 
" oils. This is also why despite hot rod articles and some web posts, we 
" aren't actually seeing much publicity of what the new lower GI-4 and 
" later oils are doing to the long term wear on our engines. Nothing much 
" at all is being reported by major magazines, or gear head TV shows etc.
" 
" Still SOMEONE should be marketing a non-molasses weight ZDDP fortified 
" oil for us gear heads. I looked at Royal Purple the other day at Pep 
" Boys: GI-4 certified, which means it has low ZDDP.
" 
" The only normal lighter wieght Oil I have seen that IS NOT GI-4 is Mobil 
" 1 10W30 High Mileage which is new, and has slightly higher ZDDP (because 
" it is marketed for older vehicles); it meets the older pre- GI-4 cert so 
" it's still "lower" ZDDP than the Oils of decades past. But for me even 
" 10W30 is a compromise. If they made it in 5W30 or 20 I'd be on it like 
" stink on poop.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought
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