Re: [Amc-list] Re; Ford EFI on AMC and FWD performce - "not!"

[Keleigh Hardie <keleigh3000@xxxxxxxxx>]

John...

"not" looking for better performance, really. The Mat's just a cruiser, 
don't drive it often or far. I'm looking at FI 'cause that's what I'm 
familiar with these days. All the cars I work on at work are FI, as are 
my Eagle and my wife's Audi. I've been trying for years to get the 
Motorcrap 4350 to work right, I'm sick of the thing. But alas, nothing 
else fits that manifold. As you point out, 2v manifolds are cheap and 
plentiful. I like the challenge of figuring out how to make it all work, 
and prowling around junk yards for the parts appeals to my RM. However, 
there aren't a lot of u-pick-ems around here, so it may not be the way 
to go. If I could find a cheap Performer I'd probably just go with an 
economy tuned square bore carb, an almost new one (try that with the 
4350) and be happy with that. Especially with the fact that we don't 
have smog inspection where I live now, so once I get the car back here 
the air pump, EGR, and the ancient pellet cats are coming off.

John Elle wrote:
> Question? 
> Why put a Ford EFI on an AMC 304?
>  
> Answer?
> Cause the throttle body fits a 2100 carburetor bolt pattern!
>  
> To be the devils advocate, or to question the logic or is this
> considered
> to be non-supportive of innovative thinking. 
>  
> So let me raise a question or two.
> What is the CFM rating of a Ford throttle body?
> A 2100 carburetor is rated at 220 cfm, if the bore of the barrels is 
> 1.4 inches, and 387 cfm if it is 1.7 inches as close as I can tell 
> anyway, so what is the bore on the intake manifold of a 304? 
> A Carter BBD 2bbl as used by AMC is 178 or so cfm. All of which are too
> small for a 304 V8. Realizing of course that barrel bore is not the 
> only factor, but it is a good one.
>  
> Now along with that you need engine control electronics, and a place to 
> locate the various sensors that are going to be needed for carburetor 
> control and will this also control the ignition or not? Probably not. 
>  
> I have seen no estimate as to costs, or what to use on this discussion
> so I ask a question is there literature available so you know what 
> you are looking for? 
>  
> And if you find it, will you know how to place it? Or check it out. 
> How do you determine that you have located all of the critical elements 
> or is it best to just buy a running donner car and strip it, then pay
> some one to haul off the remains? 
>  
> I am not saying this is an impossibility but based on the information 
> covered on this thread so far, it sounds like an improbability and 
> even using junk yard parts, unless you have your own junkyard I am going
> to guess that a budget on something like this will start to put a large
> dent in a $2000.00 bill or more. 
>  
> And what have you got when you are done? As Frank indicated, an 
> expensive kluged together electronic 2bbl carburetor with very 
> little measurable change in performance. 
>  
> Every one has to "Bling" there own thing, but this was makes no sound
> to me at all, and I have installed a Fuel Injection upgrade. For an 
> awful lot of money, it got me some increased performance, some really 
> bad head aches and is smog legal. If smog legal was not a primary 
> criteria, a 4bbl carburetor and to HXXX with smog would have been 
> a far more productive approach. 
>  
> Now as no one has offered an alternative to a Ford 2100 Electronic
> option
> so I will at this time.
> Try Port Fuel injection. Edelbrock Air GAP manifold has bung location
> cast 
> into it and it fits a 304. GM compatible systems are available in a 
> number of configurations and they are already a V8 type. 
> They come with full instructions and a wide variety of applications 
> and when everything is said and done, they probably also will put a big 
> dent in a $2000.00 bill but when done, they will also most probably give
> you greater performance potential than anything cobbed out of a Ford
> 2bbl 
> carburetor. 
>  
> Although my guess with both systems is $2000 would not cover a full 
> working system with the bugs all worked out of it. 
>  
> And for a V8, I would use the Air Gap before I even tried to find a 
> used AMC manifold, however I have 2 2bbl manifolds in the garage and 
> an Edelbrock Performer still in the box that I would not use so might 
> I could be talked out of something.
>  
> On performance front wheel drive cars, Andy Granatelli of STP and NOVI 
> fame could probably give some insight on that, as could others. I am
> even
> impressed how reliable front wheel drive cars are, I have lost more 
> drive shaft u-joints than I have front drive CV joints in my life and 
> I have put over 200 thousand miles on a number of front drive cars. Even
>
> if the Chrysler automatic Front drive transmissions have completely 
> redefined the term of questionable reliability.
> I have constantly heard that Ford Front Drive Transmissions were
> notoriously unreliable, however on my '87 Lincoln Continental purchased
> new, in the 60,000 miles I put on it before the bumper to bumper 
> warranty expired that was the only bloody thing that had not failed. I 
> dumped the car at 60,000 miles as there was no way I was going to try
> to keep the load running longer than a month at a time using my own 
> money and it completely cured me of ever owning another Ford product. 
> My next car was a Mitsubishi EXPO LRV (Chrysler product, rebadged as 
> an Eagle Summit Wagon), it went 12 years and 270,000 miles before 
> repair expenses started to add up. 
>  
>  
>  
> But the term performance front wheel drive reminds me of an old racer's 
> adage.
>  
> You can not build a race car out of a pig, but you can make a very fast 
> pig. 
> For what it's worth
> John.
>  
>  
>  
>   
>  
>  
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