AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 26

[amc-list-request@xxxxxxx]

Send AMC-List mailing list submissions to
	amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx

To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
	http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
	amc-list-request@xxxxxxxxxxxx

You can reach the person managing the list at
	amc-list-owner@xxxxxxxxxxxx

When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of AMC-List digest..."


Today's Topics:

   1. Re Headliner adhesive (KENT ANDERSON)
   2. stuff gets old! (Tom Jennings)
   3. Re: FWD: wanted: man flywheel for 1967 J3000 232 six
      (Sandwich Maker)
   4. Re: AMC six ignition timing -- got it! (Tom Jennings)
   5. 77/78 Gremlin or Pacer Hatch Lock Needed (JOE FULTON)
   6. EFI AMC - Injecting the Big Dogs - [ ?wtf ] (Brien Tourville)
   7. Re: stuff gets old (JOE FULTON)
   8. 67 232 AT available free Los Angeles! (Mike Kindle)
   9. Re: stuff gets old (Tom Jennings)
  10. Re: FWD: wanted: man flywheel for 1967 J3000 232 six (Jamie Smith)
  11. Re: 67 232 AT available free Los Angeles! (Andy&Tonja&Phoebe Ray)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:11:23 -0500
From: "KENT ANDERSON" <65marlin327@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Re Headliner adhesive
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000201c71d4a$055f8540$6400a8c0@SONY>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

My '64 Typhoon project includes a couple of possibly salvageable headliners.  IF I can get one of them to clean up pretty well, I'd love to be able to save it for the restored car.  However, the backing is of a fiberglass padding, which almost resembles a Pillsbury (sp) bisquit;  very flaky.  Does anyone know a way to salvage that?  Can it be sprayed with the 3M stuff, for instance, and compressed back to a pad?

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 09:44:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] stuff gets old!
To: AMC List <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612110917530.5833@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

The AM radio in my 63 Rambler Classic died this past year. I
actually listen to AM in that car. The service manual for
this radio is excellent (though the radio itslef is el cheapo)
and I've got the tools so I went at it.

The final straw was -- silence. It just shut up. The final audio
transistor, the antiquated but long-lived 2N174, died. The
circuit used is crazy, they run the damned thing about 150
degrees, that one transistor consumes more power than the 10
million transistors in my laptop, it's surprising they last at
all, never mind 40 years! (And that laptop will last... ?)

2N174 has long since gone obsolete. $15 on eBay when you see
them. Found a couple at a local surplus store for $1. That
problem is solved.


It had developed a weird tuning problem a year or two ago, where
sometimes a station would get "wide" in the dial; rather than
requiring fine tuning, your could turn the knob two or three
turns and barely leave the station behind. But only sometimes.

Oddly, it did it on local trips in LA, but not much on long
trips, like 800 miles to Santa Fe.

I found the problem only with luck: the radio tunes stations
by mechanically pulling little powdered-iron slugs in and out
of coils inside the tuner. If you've ever taken a car radio
apart you've probably seen the arrangement, pretty much every
car radio ever made uses it (because it's immune to vibration).

The slugs have a long threaded neck for adjustment. It threads
into a plastic plug in the tuning bar that goes up and down.

There is a #1850 or something lamp that lives behind the dial,
to illuminate it. When tuned to 1050 AM or so, the lamp sits
right behind the center tuning slug's plastic plug.

Motorola wasn't stupid; the lamp can't melt the plug. But it
speeded up decomposition of the plug, and lo, 40 years later,
it disintegrated into goo and only gripped the threaded rod
of the tuning plunger when (1) not tuned near 1000 and (2)
the temperature situation was right (wrong).

Never would have found it if I was testing in Arizona. There,
I listen to KTNN (Navajo Nation News) which is around
500-something. In LA listening 1050 causes the goo to soften.


So why is it we drive these old things?!



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:48:32 -0500 (EST)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] FWD: wanted: man flywheel for 1967 J3000 232
	six
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200612111748.kBBHmWs15645@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

" From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM" <Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
" 
" " From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
" "
" " wanted: man flywheel for 1967 J3000 232 six
" "    Posted by: "my67j3000" tina60f44@xxxxxxxxxxx my67j3000
" "    Date: Fri Dec 8, 2006 7:10 am ((PST))
" "
" " I need a manual flywheel for a 1967 J3000 232 six cylinder. It is
" " smaller than the newer 232s & 258s, it took a 10 inch clutch & I am
" " having a hard time finding one. So all I can say is HELP!!!!!
" 
" as the engine came from amc, you'll find it in their cars as well as
" jeeps.  they changed the flywheel size in '72; what you need is the
" '64-'71 199/232/258 one.
" 
" iirc it has two patterns, for 9 1/8" and 10.5" clutches.
" --------------------
" 
" I believe a 196 flywheel fits also. AFAIK there was no change in the
" bolt pattern,

interesting to know!  though in amc fashion not too surprising.

" and my 196 flywheel was drilled for two different clutch
" sizes also -- one larger than the one it used. Not sure about sizes
" though. 

the common ones i know of are the 10.5", for which there are also 10"
and '10.95"' clutches, the 11"/12" used mostly on light trucks, and
the 9 1/8".

i successfully used an early-'70s 10" hd on my '66 199 but i had to
search a bit for a real 10" pp; most places sub a 10.5" which fits the
larger late setup just fine but won't clear the early bellhousing.
also initial adjustment was close; before it broke in it took just
about full pedal between engaged and disengaged.

slant sixes had a hd 10" clutch that fit the 9 1/8" pattern.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay                                  the genius nature
internet rambler                            is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx                       and think what none thought


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:42:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMC six ignition timing -- got it!
To: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
	<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612111235320.5833@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006, Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM wrote:

> I don't think the steady state temp will drop if you use a 180
> thermostat, but it could. Try turning the fan on a little sooner. That's
> what I do -- fan comes on about the same time the thermostat starts to
> open, or just before. Non-adjustable fan switches aren't always accurate
> -- a lot depends on where the pickup is mounted too, adjustable or not.
> Mine's right behind and against the radiator on the left side near the
> outlet. In the summer I usually adjust to come on a little sooner, later
> in cold weather (like here in Dover, never needed to in MS!). 

I think you're right. I think I have it figured out -- I pulled
over after 45 miles of freeway driving, got out the infrared
thermometer -- the top tank inlet neck is 165F, and the outlet
on bottom is 125!

So the 195 thermostat just begins to crack open around 160 -
165, water flows through the radiator slowly, and is dropped
down to COLD WARMUP territory, and that's that. I'll have to
partially block off the radiator!

I think all that ignition advance helps too, less heat in the
engine, but I wouldn't think it would be that much drop, but
who knows. I'll have mileage data after the next tankful.



I had the fan thermo too hotu, before; I set it to come on
about 180, and in this weather (60F) the fan comes on only in
idling traffic.



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 14:13:25 -0800 (PST)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 77/78 Gremlin or Pacer Hatch Lock Needed
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <613809.80123.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have two Gremlin hatchback locks but no keys.  I
also have a 75 Pacer which has no hatchback key.  I
talked to my local locksmith today and these units are
not easily disassembled.  To do so, you have to
destroy the bezel on the front by uncrimping it.  
My locksmith tried to make a key for one of my Gremlin
locks by using the "K838" code on the lock.  He could
not make a key that worked.  I don't know what
catalogs he was working from, but he's the expert so I
didn't question the procedures.

He said the same lock assemblies were used on the
Weatherguard truck tool boxes make by Knaack (sp?).  I
went to my local weatherguard distributor and they
could not match the key code.  He did recognize the
lock assembly so my locksmith was right about
Weatherguard using the same lock.  The keys he had in
the stored (which looked like AMC/GM ignition keys)
all started with the key code "K0xx".  The distributor
called the Knacke factory and found that these locks
have been discontinued.

The AMC 77 TSM says the locks were provided as an
assembly and there is no stated procedure for
disasembling them.  This is different from the door
locks, where there is a written procedure.  The
locksmith said you would have to destroy the front
bezel to "uncrimp" it and remove the tumblers.

So my questions are:  

Does anyone have a spare 77/78 Gremlin hatchback lock
with key?  I'll pay whatever is reasonable.

If you have an assortment of old AMC keys, I would
also appreciate borrowing them, to try to find a key. 
I'll return your keys promptly.

Regards,
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 12:04:38 -0500
From: "Brien Tourville" <hh7x@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] EFI AMC - Injecting the Big Dogs - [ ?wtf ]
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <457D4956.19074.629F4A3@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Everything for EFi or TBI is available in junkyards - cheap.

For my Turbo App. the 1227749 ECM is between 
$15.00 - $50.00 from www.car-parts.com.

The rest - harness / injectors / Throttle Body /
sensors can be had at Pick-'n-Pull or a donor
heap for under $250.00 .

The GM boys have .net sites that cover everything
from which harness to locate to pinning an ECM
for 8cyl. applications.

Learning curve finding sites & reading up is
about a month to know what does what and
what to look for.

Biggest pita is getting the Intake Manifold
modded for Injectors.

VW has screw in Injector 'bungs' - holders
where the Injector body fits into on the manifold.

Welding a thick alum. rod to the manifold -
cut it off - drill it out.

Aim the injector nozzle - the spray - at 
a 43 degree angle to the intake valve head.

So, you're out around $500.00 in parts
if you shop a used manifold.

The Offenhauser single plane looks better
than the Torker for this - just whack out
the seperator in the plenum - more area
to mount the Injectors on the mated runners
and the runners are shorter than the Torker
- give you better low - mid throttle response.


        =Bt=
  milnersXcoupe
   "The Heretic"



PRICING
To answer some basic questions, the system is set to target the 
$2000.00
price range for the 930cfm body and comes as a complete package. The
Throttle body bolts in place of a Holley or similar 4 barrel and has 
the
same overall dimensions, so the air cleaner will remain in the same
location. 

SELF-TUNING COMPUTER
The computer is the first self-tuning system available and is a speed
density ,closed loop system . We use a PLX wide band (included) and 
the
system delivers hands free tuning at all loads and RPM?s. The key to 
our
system is its VE SYNC which reads the air fuel of your engine and
re-writes the base fuel table to deliver the exact Target Air Fuel 
ratio
desired for your engine. This can be done while viewing the info on a
laptop, or without one. The system re-programs itself so the oxygen 
sensor
does not have to work to correct an inaccurate calibration each time 
you
run your engine. Once this is done you can leaved the O2 in place to
compensate for various fuel and elevation differences. A video
demonstrating a system being tuned will be posted on the site shortly 
so
keep checking it out.

ADDITIONAL COMPONENTS
The kit comes with a high pressure fuel pump that mounts on the 
chassis at
or below the fuel tank . For over 500HP and larger applications, an
ultra-high performance pump is required for an additional charge. 
Also
there is no need for a return fuel line although one may be used 
along
with an EFI bypass regulator. The return-less system is included in 
the
kit but the bypass style system is not included and can be purchased
separately.

ECU & WIRING DETAILS
The computers dimensions are 6-inches long, 4.5-inches wide, and
1.65-inches high; and it can be mounted either under the dash or in
another dry location. All wiring features weather pack connectors and 
are
completely terminated although you are required to install an o2 
sensor
bung in the exhaust pipe. This can be done in one side only by any 
muffler
shop and the bung is included.

 SYSTEMS AVAILABLE
There BossEFI comes in 2 sizes, 930 & 1200 cfm ratings. The 930 will
handle up to 650hp and the 1200 is good for 900+hp with the correct 
size
injectors. There is a simple formula to size the injectors. We use 4 
so
the math is:

HP divided by 2 /4 = injector size.

The computer is capable of very small pulse widths so it is better to 
be a
little large in this area. An example of this is 500hp/2/4 = 62.5lbs. 
In
this case we would use 63 lb injectors.For Dual Quad systems we would 
have
8 injectors so HP/2/8= injector size. 500hp/2=250/8=31.25. We would 
supply
8 32lb injectors in the kit. You can use this simple math to work up 
any
HP combo you have. This is a Quick tip only,call us if you are un 
sure. 
All necessary sensors are included so this is a true bolt on system!!

RELEASE DATE & FURTHER INFO
We will be sending out periodic emails with more details about the 
BossEFI
system up to the Spring 2007 release date. Please stay tuned, as THE 
MOST
EXCITING NEW PERFORMANCE PRODUCT IN 20 YEARS is about to 
REVOLUTIONIZE
your vehicle.

Thanks for your interest,
RetroTek Speed

  




------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 16:03:44 -0800 (PST)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] stuff gets old
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <22015.7066.qm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Just curious Tom.    How could you tell that a
particular transistor was bad?  

Regards,
Joe Fulton


------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:19:54 -0800
From: "Mike Kindle" <mike90066@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 67 232 AT available free Los Angeles!
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY113-F3908A95BEDB6C847A0A134FCD70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

In Los Angeles
I've got a lead on a free 67 232 with AT attached from a Rambler American, 
runs good and shifts well.  It's in the back of a truck right now looking 
for a home.  I don't really have room for it.  Let me know and I'll set it 
up.
Mike
323.630.9376

_________________________________________________________________
All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial! 
http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 18:50:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] stuff gets old
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0612111843250.5833@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 11 Dec 2006, JOE FULTON wrote:

> Just curious Tom.    How could you tell that a
> particular transistor was bad?  

The technical service manual gives voltages throughout the
circuit for normal operation; 8.9V on this pin of that part,
etc. You can check that with a voltmeter. The problem is
interpreting what a wrong result means -- you kinda have to
know how a transistor works (and I do electronics as part of
my work). You put current in the base of a transistor, it makes
a larger current flow in the collector, etc.

But in this case you could also guess armed with a little
knowledge; it's a big transistor, bolted outside the case,
and it runs hot, normally. It drives the louspeaker, so if it's
utterly silent, if it's not wiring, it's likely that transistor.

(I also have an oscilloscope and was able to poke around the
circuit and see the actual signals, but it wasn't necessary in
this case.)

The tuning thing, that was mechanical! it just took a lot of
staring and working the tuner to see what was wrong.  Same way
I diagnose a lot of car problems, pull up a piece of carpet,
get comfortable, lay under the car and stare at it, yanking at
things to find the squeak :-)



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 11 Dec 2006 20:50:39 -0800
From: "Jamie Smith" <oconner51@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] FWD: wanted: man flywheel for 1967 J3000 232
	six
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx, tina60f44@xxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY109-DAV8EC16B4B124C9F07C362BBFD70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"




>Message: 2
>Date: Sun, 10 Dec 2006 07:47:06 -0800
>From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>>
>Subject: [AMC-List] FWD: wanted: man flywheel for 1967 J3000 232 six
>To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Message-ID: <BAY114-F39FDF23FA9AF4D370A57F4ACD10@xxxxxxx<mailto:BAY114-F39FDF23FA9AF4D370A57F4ACD10@xxxxxxx>>
>Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

>wanted: man flywheel for 1967 J3000 232 six
>   Posted by: "my67j3000" tina60f44@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:tina60f44@xxxxxxxxxxx> my67j3000
>   Date: Fri Dec 8, 2006 7:10 am ((PST))

>I need a manual flywheel for a 1967 J3000 232 six cylinder. It is
>smaller than the newer 232s & 258s, it took a 10 inch clutch & I am
>having a hard time finding one. So all I can say is HELP!!!!!


I have one off a 1968 J3000 with 232 if that will work. Not sure of condition but I can pull it in the next few days (clutch and flywheel are still bolted to engine) and check if you are interested. Someone please let me know if it is the same. (I am just guessing that it is). 

Jamie Smith
Spokane, WA
oconner51@xxxxxxxxxxx<mailto:oconner51@xxxxxxxxxxx>
1966 Rambler American 220 Station Wagon
1966 Rambler Classic 770 Two Door Hardtop (for sale)
1977 GMC Sierra 3/4 ton Pickup (for sale)
1984 AMC Eagle Limited Station Wagon
1986 AMC Eagle Station Wagon
1986 Jeep Comanche Pickup
Miscellaneous parts for 1966 Jeep Wagoneer and 1968 Jeep Pickup




------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2006 01:33:50 -0800
From: "Andy&Tonja&Phoebe Ray" <raysinvegas@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 67 232 AT available free Los Angeles!
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <000f01c71dd0$a283faf0$0e5ae404@yourwg5n33dutv>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

You think Las Vegas delivery is out of the question? :) :) :) Just kidding! Wait, Joe Fulton, you heading this way anytime soon? ;)

------------------------------

_______________________________________________
AMC-List mailing list
AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list


End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 11, Issue 26
****************************************