AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 10, Issue 8
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- Date: Fri, 03 Nov 2006 12:00:01 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Possible carb for a six? (Mark Price)
2. Re: Duraspark distributor woes (258 six)
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
3. Re: Prothane = Strut bushings
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
4. Urethane Bushing (jackbarncord@xxxxxxx)
5. Interior Arm Rest(s) - 1968 Rebel 550 (PSchambs@xxxxxxx)
6. Franco-American motors (Mahoney, John)
7. Re: Prothane = Strut bushings (Jay)
8. Ford To AMC suspension comparison (John Elle)
9. SPARK PLUG Heat Range info. (John Elle)
10. Re; Franco-American motors (John Elle)
11. Compressors (Arthur Litchfield)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 11:58:24 -0800
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Possible carb for a six?
To: AMC List <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <29620639.1162497504229.JavaMail.root@web24>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Just in case anyone thinks this would be good for a six?
Ebay Item : 250040918288
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Rochester-Carburater-off-OMC-225-Good-Take-Off_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ31286QQihZ015QQitemZ250040918288QQrdZ1
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 14:14:45 -0600
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Duraspark distributor woes (258 six)
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A67EBA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Thu, 2 Nov 2006, msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
> Funny that the discussion when this direction. This is exactly
> what I did with the plugs on my Ram's V10. I switched to the
> long-nose plug design used in Vipers and there was a difference.
> In reading up on this on Ram Owner's Forums, the theory was
> that moving the point of initial combustion closer to the top
> of the cylinder had an effect similar to advancing the timing.
> I'm was pleased with the results.
----------------------------------------------
That would explain why the Renix plug works better in an HO stroker too
-- the timing needs to be set back a little due to the increase in
compression. Amazing how such a small detail can make a big difference!
Tom, the R9 plugs might be to cold when the tip is retracted as well!!
Hope not, but at least sparkers aren't to expensive to experiment a
little.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 15:14:02 -0600
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Prothane = Strut bushings
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A67F23@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Thursday, November 2, 2006 12:54 PM
From: Widiker, John D <john.widiker@xxxxxxx>
Honestly I don't notice harshness from the poly bushings. The car is not
softly sprung and it's got a very positive feel to it, but it doesn't
seem unacceptably harsh. I do lube the crap out of them when I install
them to avoid squeaks, but is it that noticeable to you guys?
-------------------
John, on the 63-66 big cars I notice it when I hit a pot hole! You'd
feel something like that even with new stock bushings, but there's a
very pronounced jar with the urethane strut rod bushing. Feels like
someone hammering the floor right near your left foot when a pothole or
any substantial . On a smooth road it would hardly make a difference. On
show cars or even most track cars, it may go unnoticed, but for a daily
driver that sees regular service (not just a "weekender" or occasional
driver that's babied a bit -- something more like Tom and I, who use our
cars for pretty much regular transportation on all sorts of roads and
traffic). I didn't mind occasional squeaks, but that jar at my feet
worried me! As I said, I get some of this now, with the modified strut
rod and stock Concord bushings. I got a little more with the 63
one-piece design, but that can be partially attributed to NORS bushings
that didn't last long anyway.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:28:33 +0000
From: jackbarncord@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] Urethane Bushing
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx (AMC List)
Message-ID:
<110220062128.26020.454A6300000CCDB4000065A421603831160B9D010C029D0E0D050C0E06@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Frank writes:
"Urethane is still a bit hard for this application -- you can feel
every hard bump right under your feet!! "
Guys, I've been passively following this thread and others in the past on the same subject and I got something that's been scratching at the back of my brain from day one.
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. A stiff ride caused by transference via polyurethane bushings means more than a rough ride. That energy you're feeling passed to your butt is coming via a section of the car that was NOT designed to sustain that transfer. This is no different than expecting air shocks to support the extra load from a trailer that is never left at home. I've seen metal fatigue and fail from just that application and it's not that different from expecting the connection point of the radius arm (strut rod) not to eventually fail from flex.
Okay, here we go. I had a ?70 Hornet back in ?73 that underwent Massive modification, note the capital ?M?. The mods started with the grille and continued throughout the car to the trim between the tail lights. I stiffened the suspension every way I could think of and some ways no one, in their right mind, would. The car handled like it was on rails and it was a pleasure to drive, hard, very hard. 1973 was not exactly a time of smooth roads or long sweeping corners like today. More like rough was the norm and smooth was the exception. I commuted with the car over a 14 mile stretch of road and cruised for entertainment. I towed my buddy?s car to races, street and strip. It only took about a year and a half for things to start to fail and in a big way. The rear shocks came through into the trunk and if that wasn?t exciting enough the right front coil broke and I wasn?t sittin? at a stop sign. All in all a real fun car, but it taught me a lesson about engineering, wh!
o shoul
d get to drive the train and who should just get to blow the whistle on rare occasions.
I really like Tom's and/or Frank's recommendation for a half poly and half rubber bushing. I don't know who thought of this first, but it's a good alternative to full poly and should lower the amount flex inflicted on the connection points.
Now I know everyone spends enough time under their cars to check for and notice metal fatigue so I'll not loose anymore sleep on the subject. Just be careful when you start to think the engineers at AMC planned on us replacing rubber bushings with this stiff stuff and remember that's 35+ year old metal.
Getting? ready to step down now boss. Steppin down now boss. Backing away slowly now boss....
Jack
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 16:31:02 EST
From: PSchambs@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] Interior Arm Rest(s) - 1968 Rebel 550
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <c9a.1e69ab7.327bbd96@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
This site has been a great help in the past; and I'm trying again for
another issue:
The red interior arm rests on my Rebel 550 are too deteriorated to use or
repair. Are the AMX type the exact same? Would anyone kindly front some ideas
for me - as I'm well on the way to a great stock renovation of the entire car!
Thanks for any ideas or sources you might suggest....Pete/
_pschambs@xxxxxxxx (mailto:pschambs@xxxxxxx)
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 17:29:40 -0500
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Franco-American motors
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<BFF496024CD8E8499845576906CA0F190D2FE4@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
http://www.planethoustonamx.com/press_photos/66_amx_1_side.JPG
http://tinyurl.com/ybayg9
http://www.amonational.com/MVC-761F.JPG
http://www.matadorcoupe.com/AMC/AMX3-7.jpg
http://www.km77.com/marcas/peugeot/2006/prototipos/908rc/med/98.jpg
http://stadium.weblogsinc.com/autoblog/hirezpics/908RC_B_1280.jpg
http://tinyurl.com/yhks3b
American Motors had ideas, from its mirror to its new-buzzed Hudson:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15463868/site/newsweek/
(Gremlin/Hornet/Cowboy/Eagle/AMX, not Pacer or NASCAR coupe Matador...)
Build a greater range of "unique" models on fewer discreet platforms, create a wider variety of "individualized" styles using common parts, and never forget fact: quality re-sells the cars -design- sold first. The better a car functions, the more returning customers will buy it. The better a car looks, the more new customers will take it for a test drive.
If they like their first --- and third and three thousandth --- ride, they will become a Ford or Chevy or BMW or Toyota or AMC driver for life: if their 2007 Mercedes S550 looks too much like a Honda or a Hyundai, they will decide it's not worth paying that premium price. If their Cadillac is only a Chevrolet and they can -see- said fact, they will conclude it's not Cavalier to own and drive either one on the American Cimarron. But if they never realize their full-size barge is really deep-down-inside compact, they will happily Ramble Cross Country in both their Americans and their Ambassadors.
They will even pay Cadillac cash for what looks like a Town Car but was only just a dressed-up Dodge. AMC wasn't the sole Valiant domestic to Dart and feint to survive on the boulevard of broken dreams called Fifth Ave. 2007 American motors needs to learn from 1967 American Motors. USA [Un]Incorporated needs to do very much more --- with very much less.
Can't remember 1960s American Motors? Remember 1970s ToyoHonDatsun. And remember that what Chrysler wouldn't do with American Motors back in 1987, Nissan-Renault would do --- with Chrysler (or Ford or GM...) in 2007 and beyond.
It's not that hard to learn from the past. Or face the same alternatives.
http://www.cepolina.com/freephoto/f/other.objects.art/b/b_flag.France.jpg
http://www.cartype.com/images/page/AMC_logo_1.jpg
http://www.thebigbash.org/images/GM%20Logo%20Large%20Web%20view.jpg
http://www.jalopnik.com/photogallery/EcoJetTwo/489733
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 20:08:33 -0500
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Prothane = Strut bushings
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <003701c6fee5$0308ebc0$25c41ecf@Ciampi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
I have poly bushings as my strut rod bushings and find them to work quite
well and not harsh at all. I have them in an otherwise stock 66 American
convertible. I got them from Doug Noel in OH.
Jay Ciampi
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 23:04:16 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Ford To AMC suspension comparison
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000101c6ff0d$e8688720$b5dd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To AMXRON
SNIP
Has anyone compared the 67 up Ford parts with the AMC stuff ????
amxron
Orbit AMC/Jeep
Brentwood, Md
50-1787
SNIP
There is no interchangeability between Ford suspension parts and AMC
parts. It just looks
like there is.
John.
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 23:24:35 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] SPARK PLUG Heat Range info.
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000701c6ff10$be633490$b5dd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
For Information!
SNIP
the L shouldn't matter. 12 is the heat range, and if it's a 12 it
should be a 12.
SNIP
Actually the L does matter.
With in a given plug style as indicated by the plug coding using
Champions for a reference as that is the plug line I have data on
such as N-14-Y which is an extended tip plug or N-12-Y which is a
colder version of the same plug the number is a relative indicator
of the tip temperature.
Change the style of the plug such as N-12 which is a flat tip plug
the physical tip temperature is different. There for the 12 becomes
a new relative indicator for that line of plugs and it is colder than
an N-14.
In those two examples tip temperature of an N-12-Y (an extended tip
Plug is about the same as a N-9 which is a flat tip plug.
Add the other alpha-numeric to indicate copper, platinum or what ever
The buzz words are you have the same difference extended out to what
ever technology is being pushed.
For example platinum plugs are designed to last longer so are used
by the factory to be installed in an engine that has lousy plug
accessibility. You can leave them in longer before the corrode.
Such as the plug behind the alternator in back of the 3.8 V6 in my
T & C. I defy anyone to change that plug under an hour and a half.
Split fire equivalents with multiple paths can be used by the factory
to last longer for the same reasons. Spark only goes to the closest
electrode so as long as the center electrode does not corrode it will
last longer too. One model Porsche uses this technology as plugs are
next to impossible to change.
Personally I have found absolutely no change in operation of an engine
using split fire plugs at all.
I also run about 3 heat ranges colder in all of my engines. ( At least
those plugs that I have data on anyway which for the most part is the
older plug applications) Plug life has tripled in some cases. Remember
OEM plug recommendation is a compromise based upon the stereo typical
usage some one deems the car will be used for. Change the usage criteria
and modify the engine the "CORRECT" Spark Plug could become a whole
different animal.
For what it is worth
John.
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2006 23:58:04 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Re; Franco-American motors
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <001301c6ff15$6c046020$b5dd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Concept!
SNIP
It's not that hard to learn from the past. Or face the same
alternatives.
SNIP
But what about all the new neat solutions for unanswered questions
generated by re-inventing wheels?
http://nths.newtrier.k12.il.us/academics/math/Connections/curves/sqwheel
s.htm
John
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 21:45:46 -0500
From: Arthur Litchfield <artl@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Compressors
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<ADVANCES62mJWEsBk310000049f@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
Good evening all. I am in the market for a new air compressor. I have
about $500 to spend. I will run a few air tools such as am impact
wrench, DA sander and an occasional nail gun or stapler. I would
appreciate recommendations anyone on the list might have.
Thanks in advance.
Art in Idaho
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