AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 64
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 64
- From: amc-list-request@xxxxxxx
- Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:11:27 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Duraspark distributor woes (258 six)
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
2. Re: 64 American (Sandwich Maker)
3. Re: Duraspark distributor woes (258 six) (Sandwich Maker)
4. overdrive (d stohler)
5. AMCs on Chicago's Craigslist (Justin Shelton)
6. '77 Cherokee with Plow, $1000 (Justin Shelton)
7. Re: Duraspark distributor woes (258 six) (Jim Blair)
8. Non-AMC waste of time (Jim Blair)
9. Re: Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle) (Jim Blair)
10. Re: AMBASSADORS (now trucks) (Jim Blair)
11. Re: 64 American (alternate to 196)
(Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM)
12. Re: Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle) (Sandwich Maker)
13. Re: overdrive (Sandwich Maker)
14. Email Address Problem (Nolanatcamelot@xxxxxxx)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 07:25:16 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Duraspark distributor woes (258 six)
To: <tomj@xxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A0FBA0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Richening it a bit will reduce pinging under load. I've tried weaning
mine off gas at times too, it usually balks.... ;> Once it's richened
up a little you will likely get better mileage. At 70 mph you should
have the secondary cracked open with a small 2V carb. That's my
experience with the Autolite carb on an old Pinto anyway. I think the
secondary started opening around 50 mph.
The strokers guys have found that running an 87-90 Renix spark plug in
the 91-06 HO engine (when stroked) will reduce pinging also. The
recommended plug for the Renix is shorter than the HO plug. Don't know
if that info will help or not. I think the longer reach plug is getting
hot and causing pre-detonation, the shorter one doesn't get as hot from
combustion. Just my opinion though!
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:44:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 64 American
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610251244.k9PCiiT16127@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "L. D. Lyons" <ldlyons@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" I am considering putting something other than a 196 in my 64 440 HDTP,
" can someone give me an idea on what would fit, I would love to put a v8
" in.
does your upper radiator support go straight across, or does it zigzag
in front of the radiator? if it has the zig you can reverse the
radiator brackets moving it a couple of inches forward, and then
there's definitely enough room for a later six; this is what the
factory did in '65 for the 232. you need the short waterpump and
pulley also used on '65-'74 jeeps iirc. or - stock jeep 4.0 pulleys
are very tight to the block, maybe close enough to fit even with the
straight radiator support. i'll bet you'd have to drop the mechanical
fan and go entirely with electric ones though.
my dream for a car like this was a 4.0 stroker [4.2/258 crank] backed
with a strong t5, and just to complete the driveline a '73-6 dart
8.25" rear end. the stroker can easily be built to 250-270 hp with
lots of torque, even keeping the stock ecm. there's a strokers group
on yahoo about this engine combo.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:49:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Duraspark distributor woes (258 six)
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610251249.k9PCnlC16175@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM" <Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
"
"
" The strokers guys have found that running an 87-90 Renix spark plug in
" the 91-06 HO engine (when stroked) will reduce pinging also. The
" recommended plug for the Renix is shorter than the HO plug. Don't know
" if that info will help or not. I think the longer reach plug is getting
" hot and causing pre-detonation, the shorter one doesn't get as hot from
" combustion. Just my opinion though!
i think the renix works as much because it's a step colder than
because of its reach. iirc folks have had a hard time finding other
than stock plugs for the 4.0.
if you're running lean you should definitely be able to run a colder
plug. one of the standard reasons for a hotter one is to burn off
the deposits created by short around-town-driving trips. on top of
that, gas now probably doesn't leave the crud it used to.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:42:16 -0700 (PDT)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] overdrive
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20061025134216.94149.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
i saw something about overdrives. i didnt have time to read. if someone is looking for an overdrive set up, i have a T-89/R-10 o/d set up with torque tube mount on it for a v8 rambler. it is newly rebuilt. i have access to the governor and sollenoid if they are also needed. i am only able to get online for about 30 min at a time so i dont really have time to read the amc list. if there was someone looking for a setup like this, email me directly. das24rules@xxxxxxxxx and i will be more than happy to send pics and work with.
anybody on the list know anyone who needs this setup keep me in mind? i am looking for a place for this to go. as it is just sitting in my garage. no rust on anything yet as it has all been coated. would like to see it get used before it does rust.
dave stohler
camp taji iraq
---------------------------------
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:42:44 -0800
From: Justin Shelton <hydeparker@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] AMCs on Chicago's Craigslist
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <617E92BC724.000002B9hydeparker@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
AMCs on Craigslist in Chicago:
'73 Matador, very nice, $4000.
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nch/car/225338583.html
'73 Javelin, still needs some help, $4500
http://chicago.craigslist.org/wcl/car/225333273.html
'68 AMX, very sharp, 390, $8000
http://chicago.craigslist.org/nwc/car/222451362.html
'65 Ambassador 990 wagon, $1500 (this car has been being posted regularly for the past couple of months. Original price was $1600, so he might (and he needs) to come down a bit more:
http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/car/225344587.html
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------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 06:53:48 -0800
From: Justin Shelton <hydeparker@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] '77 Cherokee with Plow, $1000
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <61974CE5FDE.000002E3hydeparker@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Here's a nice-looking '77 Cherokee, with Meyer plow, for $1000. Ad says it needs brake work. Looks really nice for a Midwestern car. Not mine.
http://haneyservices.com/vehiclesforsale.aspx
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:02:16 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Duraspark distributor woes (258 six)
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F3053F55AAEDF79E1DA1E44AC060@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: Tom, I have run into similar issues in the past and found out that the
culprit was either my plugs were 1 range too hot (I am currently running NGK
TR5-5 but should be running TR5s and the ping factor is causing my knock
sensor to cut engine power at operating temps) or the camshaft was dialled
in too far advanced. Sometimes on the 4.2L, it was cam walk changing engine
timing parameters while under load (cam button bolt and timing cover from a
4.0L cured that)
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Duraspark distributor woes (258 six)
To: AMC List <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.64.0610242148210.2126@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
For some months I've been having trouble getting the timing
right on my Hornet's 258. It would either retard-backfire or
ping, with little adjustment range between the two.
2.73 axle, 904 auto, weber carb. I've been running cheapsh*t
gas.
It's a Duraspark II (square coil, big Ford cap, etc).
I'm getting 19 mpg, down from a high of 20, averaged over full
tankfuls. (I've recorded every single fillup since May 2005).
_________________________________________________________________
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trip!
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------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:04:58 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Non-AMC waste of time
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F26779702FA5534C78AAA32AC060@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
But quite entertaining! (at times)
http://live.wildlife.wavelit.net/451OK
_________________________________________________________________
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route! http://local.live.com?FORM=MGA001
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:10:55 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F802042B49FFC8975F0815AC060@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: I was looking at either a Grand Cherokee D35 ebrake and disc brake
assembly (shoes inside the "drum" of the rotor) or 8.8" Ford axle with disc
brakes (common XJ conversion)
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle)
To: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A0F726@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
A: I'm about to find out about some of this stuff. I just sold a
customer
some ZJ rear disc brakes today and found out that there was a
'93/94
only
rear disc brake version. The rest were the same '95 thru '98.
I'd like to get a Model 20 (from a Comanche) soon to put under
my
truck
(hopefully while I do the AW4 from BA 10/5 swap) so I can do a
rear disc
brake conversion. I don't want to waste the money on my current
D35.
-------------
The easy way for rear disc brakes on any AMC is to use the
rotors from a
4x4 XJ Cherokee (or Eagle -- and I think the 2WD XJ uses the
same as
well) and weld-on GM caliper brackets from Speedway
(www.speedwaymotors.com). You won't have a park brake unless you
use GM
calipers with park brake built in though. One way around that is
to use
a manual caliper from a snowmobile/go cart. These are made in
two halves
so a spacer can be made to make it wide enough for the vented
rotor.
Other rotors can be used -- Ford light 4x4 truck rotors have the
same
bolt pattern, as does the Crown Vic and some Toyota trucks. Hat
type
aftermarket rotors work nicely also. A solid rotor is fine for
the rear
brakes, doesn't have to be vented.
_________________________________________________________________
Try the next generation of search with Windows Live Search today!
http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&source=hmtagline
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 08:14:47 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMBASSADORS (now trucks)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F53D4514A2FEE86BCA1683AC060@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
A: The QT has ALL the power pass thru the chain. NP208 only uses the chain
when the front axle is engaged. That's why it's my choice. Not made for
street driving (in nice weather), but it's locked front and rear when I need
it to be.
As for the diesels, it's too bad they didn't use a 4L80. They used both
the 4L60 and 4L60E same as GM trucks (at least all the ones I have seen.
4L80 is rare and requires no external computer controller. The more common
4L80E does and the diesels don't have the sensors needed)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] AMBASSADORS (now trucks)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610241315.k9ODF3m06719@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" A: My stroker in the '84 J10 will do @20 mpg with LPG at $1.50
a gallon.
" That equals @ 25 mpg on gasoline price wise. Not terribly fond
of the smell
" of oil burners. I don't think the QT would stand up to a
weasel either. I
" stretched the #@$* out of the old chain (with the O/D part
time kit)
seems to me all chain-drive t/c would have this weakness to a
degree.
" The Hummer got a Chev TH400 or 700R4 trans (and that's TOOO
Chevy for my
iirc not a 700r4 but 4L80.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all
have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none
thought
_________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 11:11:39 -0500
From: "Swygert, Francis G MSgt 436 CES/CECM"
<Francis.Swygert3@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 64 American (alternate to 196)
To: <ldlyons@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<092D8CF6635129428E9B66DC582C3B3D01A0FD90@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 06:28 AM
From: L. D. Lyons <ldlyons@xxxxxxxxxxx>
I am considering putting something other than a 196 in my 64 440 HDTP,
can
someone give me an idea on what would fit, I would love to put a v8 in.
also a 287 V8 sitting in my garage for 15 years, 199 i6 from 65 classic.
Both complete except carb. I am in south central Nebraska.
(edited for content)
------------------------------
The 199 (or a 232/258/4.0L) will fit nicely IF you don't have or want
AC. You need an early 70s CJ-5 water pump and pulley though, or a 65
American water pump and pulley. The pulley is the hard thing to find.
Keep your existing radiator but reverse the mounts left to right. That
will move the radiator forward 1.5-2". With the short pump/pulley and
radiator moved forward the bigger AMC sixes will just fit. The 4.0L
doesn't need a shorter water pump or pulley as long as you keep the
serpentine belt setup. I think (but not certain!) that the later 258
serpentine belt system will fit without mods too. You will need a
Wrangler 4.0L (1990-06) water pump so you can mount a fan on it, the
Cherokee/Comanche fan is offset and a fan won't bolt to the pump. You'll
need a "reverse rotation" fan. Flex-A-Lite makes a nice one piece
plastic fan that will work in the short space between the engine and
radiator. No room for a clutch fan! You can find that fan in most mail
order places like Summit or JCW if not locally. It might work well on
the stock Cherokee/Comanche pump, but the bolt pattern isn't the same
for the pulley on that pump vs. the ones made for a fan.
The 287 will be a bit heavy and tight, but with stock exhaust manifolds
can be squeezed in. The later AMC V-8s are a better fit as they are
60-80 pounds lighter and a little narrower. Since you have a 196 you
have a crossmember with no perches for the engine. That makes it easier
to fabricate them. I bolted two pieces of 2"x3" rectangular tubing
between the engine mounts and my 196 crossmember to mount a 4.0L in a 63
Classic. Make sure you have 11 gauge (~1/8" thick) tubing at least, 8
gauge (~3/16") would be better. Bolt the tubing to the engine mount,
lower engine in place, then mark where the original 196 bolt holes are.
Drill and tap for a fine thread 3/8" grade 8 bolt. You can drill and tap
from underneath if there's room under the car. Use a lock washer, and
lock-tite if you're concerned. You need at least 1/4" between the oil
pan and crossmember at the closest point. You might need some 1/8" steel
plates the size of your tubing to shim it up, but I didn't. The V-8 may
be in different height locations. Craft Rambler ran an American with a
bored and stroke 327 (to 421!!) in 63-64 before AMC stuck a V-8 in.
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:25:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Rear disc brakes (was: pulling an axle)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610251625.k9PGPk818183@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
"
" A: I was looking at either a Grand Cherokee D35 ebrake and disc brake
" assembly (shoes inside the "drum" of the rotor) or 8.8" Ford axle with disc
" brakes (common XJ conversion)
will the zj e-brake cables work on an xj with the zj disks? xj cables
won't without mickeymousing as the cable ends are different.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 12:32:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Sandwich Maker)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] overdrive
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <200610251632.k9PGWtN18246@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
" From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
"
" i saw something about overdrives. i didnt have time to read. if someone
" is looking for an overdrive set up, i have a T-89/R-10 o/d set up with
" torque tube mount on it for a v8 rambler. it is newly rebuilt. i have
" access to the governor and sollenoid if they are also needed. i am only
" able to get online for about 30 min at a time so i dont really have
" time to read the amc list. if there was someone looking for a setup
" like this, email me directly. das24rules@xxxxxxxxx and i will be more
" than happy to send pics and work with.
frank, weren't you looking for something like this when you were
building your '63 classic with 4.0? i know you're settled with an aw4
automatic, but anyone else contemplating something like frank's swap -
iirc the t89 has the same front side as an amc t10, so it'd bolt to a
late v8 t10 bell, which in turn would bolt to a 4.0.
the t96 used with the 196 is -not- strong enough for a 4.0, as frank
found out. if you want a stick you need a v8 setup, either the 287's
t86, the 327's t89, or the rare torque tube t10. that's if you don't
want the extra work of re-engineering the driveline and suspension to
eliminate the torque tube.
________________________________________________________________________
Andrew Hay the genius nature
internet rambler is to see what all have seen
adh@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx and think what none thought
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 15:11:16 EDT
From: Nolanatcamelot@xxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] Email Address Problem
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <c4f.63eb5d6.327110d4@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Tom Tipping
I've tried sending you a couple of messages direct to your home email
address, _meow199@xxxxxxxxxx (mailto:meow199@xxxxxxxxx) , but they keeping coming
back saying that your address has been discontinued or disabled. Have you
changed addresses or I'm I just having problems with Yahoo.
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 9, Issue 64
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