AMC-List Digest, Vol 6, Issue 4

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Today's Topics:

   1. Engine Mount Frustration (JOE FULTON)
   2. Engine Mount Frustration (John Elle)
   3. Engine Mount Frustruation (JOE FULTON)
   4. Re: D&D transmissions? T-5 questions (Armand Eshleman)
   5. Forged steel AMC cranks (Armand Eshleman)
   6. 69 SC/Rambler for sale (Eddie Stakes)
   7. Fw: hornet door compatability 77 amx (Eddie Stakes)
   8. Great day at the Gaithersburg,	MD AMC National AMCRC show...
      (Jerry Casper)
   9. Forged Crank and stroker kit (Nick ALFANO)
  10. best oil filter for a 390? (Eddie Stakes)
  11. four speed input shaft retainer wanted (Eddie Stakes)
  12. Re: 4/5 speed on 196 (francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 05:21:13 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Engine Mount Frustration
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060702122114.94844.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I spent about three hours today trying to get the 258
to sit down into the motor mount plates on the
crossmember.  I'm working alone and at least some of
you may have experienced the same frustration.

I think I know the problem now and plan to finish the
installation later this morning.  I installed the
motor mount cushings onto the engine with the L-shaped
angles of the cushion base plates place facing down. 
A parts diagram and at least one picture of an AMC six
shows the L=shaped steel flange facing up or on the
top side.  I did take pictures of the motor after I
pulled it and the base plates were facing like I have
them now though, so I know they can fit the way I have
them.   

Anyway the engine is sitting with one stud through the
mount plate and the other about 1/2 inch away frrom
the mounting hole.  I think I can at least discover if
repositioning the motor mount cushion will make any
difference.

If anyone else has recent experience installing a
232/258 (late seventies) and can offer advice, I'd
like to hear it.

Regards,
Joe Fulton



------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 06:12:22 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Engine Mount Frustration
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Cc: PIPER_PA20@xxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000201c69dd9$2be65fe0$c3dc0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Joe:
SNIP
I think I know the problem now and plan to finish the installation later
this morning.  I installed the motor mount cushings onto the engine with
the L-shaped angles of the cushion base plates place facing down. A
parts diagram and at least one picture of an AMC six shows the L=shaped
steel flange facing up or on the top side.  I did take pictures of the
motor after I pulled it and the base plates were facing like I have them
now though, so I know they can fit the way I have them.
SNIP
Looking in my 1980 TSM (the first one that I reached) the L-shaped
angles face UP (towards the hood) but as I remember and it has been a
while the problem comes from the fact that go off at an angle rather
than straight up and down thus either mounting them loosely so that can
wiggle around or installing one on the engine and wiggling the second
one in after the fact was the way I did it to solve this problem. I have
installed an I-6 engine since 1999 so it has been awhile but I do
remember running across this. It seems to me it is easier to reach the
block bolts on the passenger side than it is on the drivers side so that
one might have been mounted on the block first and then when the engine
was in position the passenger side "engine support mounting bracket" was
installed.
John


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 07:29:14 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Engine Mount Frustruation
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060702142914.16886.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Thanks John Elle for the input. 

I took another approach to the problem and removed the
driver's side engine mount pad from the engine support
(on the engine) and loosely placed it into the motor
support plate (crossmember), then dropped the engine
onto the pad and lined up the bolt holes.  Problem
solved.

I worked with this frustrating thing by myself
yesterday and just got tunnel vision I think.  A good
night's sleep and venting my problem on the list seems
to have helped.

Now to the rest of the installation.

Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA


------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 09:42:12 -0500
From: "Armand Eshleman" <aje1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] D&D transmissions? T-5 questions
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <004801c69de5$b53d4180$6601a8c0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

 Mark, Not sure exactly what combo of parts you will end up with but I can
tell you I ended up using a Mustang 10-1/2"  1-1/16" diameter 10 spline
clutch disc with an AMC 11" Borg and Beck style pressure plate for my T5
setup. My T5 has the 1-1/16" 10 spline input shaft. So far works great. Some
day I plan on getting a stronger clutch disc and pressure plate but I will
have to buy them individually, as I haven't located a kit for this
application yet.
I know a guy who tried to use the AMC 1-1/8" dia. 10 spline stuff on the
mustang 1-1/16" shaft and didn't like it. It chattered alot.
I suggest using a GM steel input shaft/throwout cover. Or you can machine a
steel Ford input cover to fit the AMC bell housing which is what I did. I
had the length and diameter matched to the input cover of a SR-4 four speed.
I strongly suggest dumping the trash ford shifter for a B&M or equivalent
shifter. You will like it much better. I used a B&M Pro shifter and it is
very positive about gear shifting. The shifter base plate sits right up
there through the tunnel floor and looks awesome too. I bought a T5 rebuild
video from Hanlon Motorsports http://www.hanlonmotorsports.com/  and a
rebuild kit. I talked with Bob Hanlon a couple times too when I encountered
trouble. Bob is a great guy and very willing to help out. The T5 completely
transformed by Javelin!!! That old Borg Warner 3 sped automatic sucked so
much power that the car was a dog. Now with the T5 and 2:87 axle the car
really responds and will burn rubber forever. My T5 has the 3:35 first gear.
It launches pretty well, except it really burns rubber if I give it too much
throttle. New rubber will cure some of that for me. You may want 3:54 rear
gears for the 2.95 version or ?. The guy I know who has 3:54 rear gears with
3:35 first gear doesn't like that combo at all, too low first gear. The .63
overdrive 5th gear gets me a low cruising rpm.

Armand


 I'll be using my AMC throwout collar or a GM steel piece and a new cluster.
 I also need to figure out what I can use for a clutch disc. Right now I
have a 10.9" Jeep clutch/pressure Plate/Flywheel in place. I also have a 10"
4.0L flywheel I could move to.
 Anyone have any thoughts on which way to go?
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV




------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:36:43 -0500
From: "Armand Eshleman" <aje1@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Forged steel AMC cranks
To: "AMC/Rambler List" <amc-list@xxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <009401c69ded$521bc740$6601a8c0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

I found a machinist that alters existing cranks by welding additional
material onto the rod journals in a strategic location using a submerged arc
method. Watched as he proceeded to drastically lengthen the stroke of a two
cylinder tractor engine. It was almost half the rod journal diameter. The
antique tractor pullers love their stroked engines too! He straightens the
cranks and machines them too. He has an induction hardening machine. Not
sure if that works on cranks. Any way I was impressed!
Wondered how well this would do on an AMC forged 390 or 401 crank. How much
displacement could a guy end up with??

Armand



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:17:49 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 69 SC/Rambler for sale
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: jjocewicz@xxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <012301c69df3$2b955ae0$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

69 SC/Rambler. 18,000 original miles. In need of a ground up restoration. 
""A"" paint, small scoop, one of the first 500 built. Missing some parts. 
Interior needs resto. Radio option. I just bought the car from the 2nd owner 
who owned it since 1974 in South Carolina. The car was mainly raced and then 
parked in 1978. It has rust in the quarters and rockers that seems to be 
from water leaks. Under carriage looks real nice. It is missing the original 
engine and trans. It comes with a 390 block, pistons, rods, crank, a 
replacement T10P trans that was bought new from AMC in 1974. The original 
shifter, tach, passenger mirror, air flapper and air cleaner are missing. It 
has rebel machine wheels on it, it has the original tailpipes with chrome 
tips and they are in excellent condition. They were pulled off the car in 
1974 and stored in a shed. Glass is good. Fender emblems are there, scoop is 
there but needs repair, torque links sre there, the original rearend is 
there with a 4:44 gear in it. I will include the original 3:54 ring and 
pinion. It has a Lakewood bellhousing. I bought the car with full intention 
of restoring it myself. This has been a dream of mine to own an SC. The 
gentleman whom was going to do the body has passed away. He was the only 
person I knew good enough to do the resto right so I am going to sell the 
car. Car is in the Chicago area. Delivery available. $15,000 or best offer. 
Will consider any and all bids up to end of ad. Please contact me at 
JJocewicz@xxxxxxxxxxx or 630-789-6063.  Joe Jocewicz jjocewicz@xxxxxxxxxxx 
630-789-6063 -hm
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*email is currently HEAVY
Call if important*
www.planethoustonamx.com



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 11:03:02 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Fw: hornet door compatability 77 amx
To: <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: wpvmddds@xxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <012101c69df3$2a8a5380$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

The folks below want to know what doors interchange with a 77 Hornet AMX. I believe (from memory) a 73-77 Hornet hatchback and 78-80 Concord hatchback will fit? Anyone with any advise, help, or comments please feel free to reply and copy your reply to the Doc who would appreciate it, thanks in advance to all who might reply and everyone have a safe, and happy 4th.
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*email is currently HEAVY
Call if important*
www.planethoustonamx.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: warren vallerand      wpvmddds@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: door compatability


Eddie,

I know you must get swamped with tons of questions, but I have not been able to find an answer and I am at my wits end.  I know you mainly deal with AMX's and Javelins but I have a hornet question I hope you can answer.  Recently purchased a 77 Hornet AMX to restore.  As (bad) luck would have it both the driver and the passenger side doors are rusting out and are beyond repair.  Would the doors from an earlier model 2 door hornet fit this car?  I am hoping to find them at the upcoming Dayton AMO meet.

Warren Vallerand


Warren Vallerand MD,DDS 
Center for Oral & Facial Surgery 
40399 Grand River, Suite 140 
Novi, MI 48375 

ph 248.478.7200 
fax 248.478.7234


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:32:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jerry Casper <gremlingts@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Great day at the Gaithersburg,	MD AMC National
	AMCRC show...
To: BadAssGremlins <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>,
	americanmotorsmodelbuilders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060702173254.16012.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

  My club sponsored the show, had a pretty fair
turnout, about 47 cars on the showfield, considering
the weather we all just escaped on the East Coast this
past week ( rain, rain, RAIN! ). Had some awesome
rides show up, some interesting muscle like a NASCAR
matador coupe, black drag Gremlin, BBG Javelin, in
addition to alot of stock Ramblers. One SWEET AMC was
a '72 Gremlin, with JUST 13k miles on it! Guy has had
it since new, autocrossed it years ago, and just
brought it out for this show after 15-20 years of
storage! Paint was dark green, V-8 car, absolutely
beautiful. He even had a folder of alot of AMC stuff
he'd saved over the years, including a Randall 401-XR
ad from some oil or tire book. Nice! I talked with him
awhile, he's got a '70 Javelin roof spoiler he wants
to part with <BIG grin! yeah, I'm working on it...>.
Nice guy, hope to see him again, told him to come
visit Gremlinland in Woodbridge, as he only works 4
miles from me, and lives 20 miles south. Never met him
before, he's known about our local club for years, but
just kept missing the shows and stuff to go to.
Anyway, hope to strike up a good friendship with him. 
  Got alot of good pics, both digital and 35mm (lordy,
been AGES since I broke out ol' Betsy, the Minolta
7000i camera, but I figured I ought to get some REAL
photos for achange. LOL ). A V-8 Hornet hatchback
showed up as well, a nice '52 Nash Airflyte wagon,
blue with woodgrain accents, some sweet convertibles,
a bunch of Rebels, one with some nice mods to it (
Spirit Turbocast-II wheels with modified centers for
volcano caps AND Rambler insert in fake knock-off, and
a special hood job where he took a 2nd rebel hood, and
made hood scoops from the inverted indentations and
welded and seamlessly molded it in. AWESOME job! Looks
factory. Calcutta maroon color, interesting color, but
nice looking. 
  Some other oldies included a '60 Rambler 4-door,
pink, a '58 Ambassador.  
6 wagons, including an Eagle, were there, some
mid-60's, all nice. WOnderful day, sunny but some
clouds and overcast on occasion to break the heat. I
bought alot of neat stuff at the vendors for good
prices, got 2 AMC am/fm/cb radios for cheap, some
Gremlin and Matador Coupe parts, misc. literature. I
was whupped by the end of the day, though, luckily my
other club members did most of the work. :) 
  Didn't stay for the banquet, wife had a headache and
wanted to go , so we left about 4 pm. Wonderfully
pleased with all the nice people I met, plus the parts
and stuff. Wish more had turned up for the show, wish
I COULD have had a running AMC to take, too, but not
to be. Maybe this summer, I'll get one running and
roadable, finally. 
 So, on that note, I'll post some pics in the Photo
section later. Need to do some work first. :) Au
revoir,

JErry Casper

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 10:35:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nick ALFANO <71amx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Forged Crank and stroker kit
To: amc list <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <20060702173553.79240.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have on brand new Moldex custom billet stroker crank
for an AMC V8 if anyone on the list is interested.  It
has a 4" stroke with standard AMC main journals, Chevy
rod journals and AMC front and rear hubs.  Price is
$2200.00 + shipping.  

Nick Alfano
Alfano Performance
Kenosha, WI. 53142
262-308-1302
262-942-8271 after 6pm central and weekends





------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 19:46:45 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] best oil filter for a 390?
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>, <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: ed forfa <fastested@xxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <03aa01c69e3b$3d2d5d00$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Ed is asking a interesting question, as I have heard all sorts of stuff about Fram, but I personally quit using Fram Oil Filters many years ago. Some of the stuff I have heard and read involve the Fram filters coming apart inside and/or collapsing. anyone care to comment? Ed will be reading this thread, feel free to also copy your reply to him, might help him make a good decision on what to put on his 390! Thanks in advance to all who might reply.
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*email is currently HEAVY
Call if important*
www.planethoustonamx.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: ed forfa       fastested@xxxxxxxxx
Need to know the best available oil filter for my 1968 390 cu in V8 AMC

Need to change oil & filter .

thank you

Easy Ed



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. 

------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 2 Jul 2006 19:53:09 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] four speed input shaft retainer wanted
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: HARN6969@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <03ad01c69e3b$3dd42450$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Does anyone here know what might interchange with this item Jim needs or where he might be able to possibly find one? Feel free to reply here and also copy your reply to the amc-list if you think it would help others. 
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*email is currently HEAVY
Call if important*
www.planethoustonamx.com

----- Original Message ----- 
From: HARN6969@xxxxxxx 

I recieved the Rambler SC 4spd transmission. The transmission bounced around inside of the crate and broke the input shaft bearing retainer or housing ( slides over the input shaft and is fastened to the front of the transmission by 4 bolts). What might interchange or where could I possibly find another? Thanks, Jim Harn 

------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Mon, 3 Jul 2006 04:52:55 -0000
From: <francis.swygert@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 4/5 speed on 196
To: <redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx>, <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<8B4C911BEBA5E24888E353FF362B9E7702E65FE2@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

Well, it can be done, but it ain't easy! The first problem is the bell
housing. The later model six bell won't fit (72 up uses same bolt
pattern as the V-8), and the early bell (all 1957-71 sixes, some
earlier) has a "short" bolt pattern -- something like 6-6.5" from top to
bottom bolts. Four and five speed trannys have something like 8" between
the top and bottom bolts. 

You can fit an SR-4, T-4, or T-5 tranny though. Use the original bell
housing. The first thing is to have a machine shop match the center hole
to the bearing retainer on the new trans. The old T-96 has a smaller
retainer. THIS IS IMPORTANT! The retainer is what aligns the trans with
the engine. IT MUST BE CENTERED. That's why I suggest a machine shop.
The bell can be centered on a vertical mill or large lathe then easily
cut for a snug slip fit of the retainer. It's possible to do this on a
good drill press, but the bell MUST be accurately centered first. You
can only be off center 0.005" or you'll rip the clutch hub apart. I
found this out the hard way on another project. 

Once that's done, get a piece of 1/4" thick steel plate. It needs to be
cut to fit the front of the transmission. You may need to make a spacer
for the bearing retainer as it must extend through the plate and into
the bell. The top two transmission bolt holes will align with the
transmission, so just drill the holes through. The bottom two on the
original bell should be drilled and counter sunk for a countersunk
machine bolt. The head needs to be flush with the plate. Then drill the
bottom two holes through the plate. Take some 1.25" wide, 1/8" thick
strap steel and make a pair of braces that mount to the engine side of
the bottom two holes and extend to the bell housing. The best place to
anchor the straps is where the engine mounts bolt to the bell. 

Alternately, use 1/8" plate steel. You'll want to bend a 1/2" lip on the
sides back toward the trans for strength. That will allow the retainer
to go through the plate and into the bell. You'll have to put the bell
on then mark the two lower bell trans bolt holes on the front of the
trans. Drill and tap the trans case for two 5/16" bolts. Bolt the trans
to the top holes, then install the 5/16" bolts from the inside. Make the
two lower braces as above. This is a bit more work, especially
installing the trans (remove the crossmember and tilt the engine back,
more room than in the later model American and Hornets) with the bell
installed, but will result in better trans to engine alignment. 

I thought all this out and started to mount an SR-4 to my 196 years ago,
but decided to keep the automatic instead. I didn't have the tools to do
all the work myself like I do now. Well, most of it anyway. I think I'd
still get a shop to enlarge the retainer hole, pretty sure my drill
press isn't accurate enough for 0.005" tolerance.

Now for the clutch. The original clutch has some designed in slip. That
makes the car easy to drive. I forget the size of the clutch, but the
E-stick clutch was at least 1/2" larger in diameter. You'll need a disc
that will fit the trans and the right diameter pressure plate. You might
have to redrill the flywheel for a larger diameter pressure plate, but
make sure it will fit in the bell. I'd start with a Pinto or Mustang II
2.3L four pressure plate since that's the disc you will need. It should
fit, but I'm not sure. Alternately, if the disc will fit in the pressure
plate (I think it will -- I can't recall for sure but think I tried the
AMC SR-4 disc and it would fit the 196 pressure plate), you can have a
speed shop rebuild the original pressure plate with stronger springs.
You'll have to check around or search the Internet for someone who can
do that.

If the shifter is your main problem there's an easier solution. Find and
install a Twin-Stick shifter. The shifter from a Classic will fit also.
Just don't wire the OD like the original Twin-Stick or try shifting by
splitting the gears. The T-S trans has a big gap between 2nd and 3rd so
you can shift 1-2-2OD-3-3OD. With the regular trans 2OD and 3 are
practically the same gearing. The kick-down switch is on top of the T-S
shifter so you can kick it out of OD easily. But there are a lot more
controls to keep you from blowing the OD. Unless you get ALL the
switches and such with the T-S shifter (and I DON'T recommend it!),
leave all the OD wiring as is. You could remove the OD lock-out lever
and cover with a leather boot, using just the three speed shifter and
the under dash lock-out cable. 


--- original message -----------------------------------
Date: Saturday, July 1, 2006 12:33 PM
From: M Walter <redamc1963@xxxxxxxxxxx> 
hello AMC land,   I would like to put a 4 speed trans in my 62 american
convertible.  It currently has a dual 1bbl carb 196 T-96 3 speed w/o.d.
I
put a Hurst truck floor shifter in it, whic works great but interferes
with
the o.d.  The clutch is also too weak for this motor. 




------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 6, Issue 4
**************************************