AMC-List Digest, Vol 6, Issue 42

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 401 crank wanted & IH question (msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx)
   2. Re: Update on surging 401 (Savage, Pete)
   3. Re: Update on surging 401 (Savage, Pete)
   4. Re: 401 crank wanted & IH question (Peter Marano)
   5. Free Ads (Jock J Jocewicz)
   6. Re: neat gas cox powered matador (amckiwi)
   7. 68 AMX no reserve/no sense (Eddie Stakes)
   8. Re: 68 AMX no reserve/no sense (John Elle)
   9. Re: 401 crank wanted & IH question (Frank Swygert)
  10. Re: Update on surging 401 (Frank Swygert)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 12:03:23 +0000
From: msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401 crank wanted & IH question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<071720061203.27771.44BB7C8A000D523E00006C7B2200761438019D0A0790019D9F9C03@xxxxxxxxxxx>
	
Content-Type: text/plain

Yeah, I imagine that you needed something like that to carry those anchors.  Hard to believe that they actually had a problem with mixing up the motors.

-Spro

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx> 

> I believe the BB is referring only to engines built for IHC pickups and similar 
> sized vehicles. The V-401 and V-461 were used in trucks like 2ton and larger. 
> 
> Ken 
> 
> Quoting msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx: 
> 
> > AMC 304's were not used in IH vehicles. The 304 was an IH motor. If you 
> > find a red 304, I would assume it was just an emissions model that Frank 
> > referred to and the red paint is just a coincidence with respect to IH. IH 
> > also didn't make a "400" or a "401" of their own according to 
> > BinderBulletin.org. The largest IH-made V8 displaced 392ci and they call it 
> > "the 392". However, I agree that they referred to the AMC 401 as a "400". 
> > 
> > See below for some search results from BB. You'll have to scroll through 
> > some of it due to some random search hits. 
> > 
> > 
> http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/faq.php?s=&do=search&q=AMC+232+258+304+401&; 
> match=any&titlesonly=0 
> > 
> > Try different search combinations including the keyword "AMC". It coughs up 
> > some bits of info regarding special tools to service AMC drivetrains and 
> > transmissions in the IH world. 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -Spro 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > -------------- Original message ---------------------- 
> > From: Frank Swygert 
> > > John, you got that backwards! IHC made a 401 for their bigger trucks 
> > > before they started using the AMC 401 in their pickups and Travelalls. 
> > > IHC called the AMC V-8 a "400" to help prevent confusion by their 
> > > dealers/parts people. So the parts from an IHC 401 won't fit an AMC 
> > > 401, but parts from an IHC 400 will interchange with the AMC 401. 
> > > 
> > > As stated, all were painted red and all IHC 401s came with a 2V carb 
> > > stock, no factory 4Vs as I recall. The 2V carb was the only deviation 
> > > from the AMC version. The 304 and 258 were the same as used by AMC 
> > > except for the red paint (AMC did paint some CA spec engines red in the 
> > > late 60s or early 70s though). 
> > > 
> > > On July 16, 2006 John Elle wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > Roy 
> > > > International used AMC engines in some of their applications. I have 
> > > > seen 401s, 304's and some I-6 engines. They were painted red. 
> > > > SNIP 
> > > > In Need Of a 401 Crank! Perfer standard on rods and mains But,email 
> > > me 
> > > > with 
> > > > what you got! 
> > > > Or do you know if an IH crank would fit? 
> > > > SNIP 
> > > > However there is absolutely no relationship between the 400 cubic 
> > > Inch 
> > > > International engine and the 401 AMC engine. There are no parts that 
> > > > will interchange at all. 
> > > 
> > > ============================================================= 
> > > Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist 
> > > 
> > > _______________________________________________ 
> > > AMC-List mailing list 
> > > AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > > http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list 
> > > 
> > > or go to http://www.amc-list.com 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________ 
> > AMC-List mailing list 
> > AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
> > http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list 
> > 
> > or go to http://www.amc-list.com 
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________ 
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> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx 
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list 
> 
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com 

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:50:03 -0400
From: "Savage, Pete" <PSavage@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Update on surging 401
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<BD261180E6D35F4D9D32F3E44FD3D901034606AA@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Marty,

If you d the math the 600cfm is nearly a perfect match for a 401...

You should not lose anything, except the car should run a whole lot better with the smaller
carb.  It does no good to over carb a car as all it does is to lean out the air/fuel mixture when you
don't have the flow to pull the correct amount of gas out of the jets for the size of the carb...

Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Marty Bricker
Sent: Saturday, July 15, 2006 7:44 PM
To: northtexasamc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; AMC List
Subject: [AMC-List] Update on surging 401

Well, it appears that the problem was with the 750
Carter .  I swapped it out with my 600 Edelbrock and
it's running just great. 
  I purchased the 750 cause I was told the 600 would
not be enough for the 401.  Where will I see a
difference?  It seemed to pull great off the line up
to 70-80 when I backed off.  I don't have any
experience with an engine like this (304 was biggest I
ever had before).  Thanks.
Marty

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------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 09:54:10 -0400
From: "Savage, Pete" <PSavage@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Update on surging 401
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<BD261180E6D35F4D9D32F3E44FD3D901034606AB@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="iso-8859-1"

Frank,

I disagree!  The engine can only pull as much air as the CI of the engine allows.  This is
somewhat dependent on camshaft, but overall with stock timing gear the 401 will not need
anything larger than the 600 CFM carb, even on the top end...

Peter


-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx]On Behalf Of Frank Swygert
Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 11:34 PM
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Update on surging 401

Marty, the 600 will be fine on the 401 for normal street driving. The
smaller venturis (barrels) will improve low speed torque, so it will
feel better off the line and up to cruising speed. You'll lose some top
end performance because the engine will enventually need more fuel/air
than the 600 can provide.

Check this site out:
http://www.classictruckshop.com/garage/shopmathcfm1.asp

Using the calculator there, even at 100% volumetric efficiency the 401
only needs 580 cfm at 5,000 rpm. When you hit 80 I bet you were around
4,000 at the most. The calculator defaults to 90% VE, but 80% is more
like average for a factory stock engine. you might get close to 90 with
a nice intake, headers, and free flowing exhaust system, but even then
85% is more like it. If you were drag dracing and turning the engine up
to 7,000 rpm you'd need the 750 cfm carb -- the calc says 730 at 90%
VE. I think it defaults to 90 to give a little more carb than
absolutely necessary, it doesn't hurt to have a little more, but not a
lot. Most of the guys telling you 600 cfm isn't enough are racing their
cars and want the higher rpm power. Street cars don't need it as they
rarely see over 3,000 rpm on a regular basis.


On July 15, 2006 Marty Bricker wrote:

> Well, it appears that the problem was with the 750
> Carter .  I swapped it out with my 600 Edelbrock and
> it's running just great.
>   I purchased the 750 cause I was told the 600 would
> not be enough for the 401.  Where will I see a
> difference?  It seemed to pull great off the line up
> to 70-80 when I backed off.  I don't have any
> experience with an engine like this (304 was biggest I
> ever had before).  Thanks.
> Marty
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com


=============================================================
Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist

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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 10:31:21 -0500
From: Peter Marano <PMarano@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401 crank wanted & IH question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <44BBAD49.8050504@xxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed

Trivia: All International Harvester engines had to have standard size 
bores as well as standard size crankshafts.  Oversize bores and 
undersize crankshafts not allowed.

Peter Marano
Kenosha WI

>Message: 12
>Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2006 23:23:27 -0600
>From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
>Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401 crank wanted & IH question
>To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>Message-ID: <1153113807.44bb1ecf85def@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
>I believe the BB is referring only to engines built for IHC pickups and similar
>sized vehicles. The V-401 and V-461 were used in trucks like 2ton and larger. 
>
>Ken 
>
>Quoting msproviero@xxxxxxxxxxx:
>
>  
>
>>AMC 304's were not used in IH vehicles.  The 304 was an IH motor.  If you
>>find a red 304, I would assume it was just an emissions model that Frank
>>referred to and the red paint is just a coincidence with respect to IH.  IH
>>also didn't make a "400" or a "401" of their own according to
>>BinderBulletin.org.  The largest IH-made V8 displaced 392ci and they call it
>>"the 392".  However, I agree that they referred to the AMC 401 as a "400".
>>
>>See below for some search results from BB.  You'll have to scroll through
>>some of it due to some random search hits.
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>http://www.binderbulletin.org/forums/faq.php?s=&do=search&q=AMC+232+258+304+401&match=any&titlesonly=0
>  
>
>>Try different search combinations including the keyword "AMC".  It coughs up
>>some bits of info regarding special tools to service AMC drivetrains and
>>transmissions in the IH world.
>>
>>
>>
>>-Spro
>>
>>
>>
>> -------------- Original message ----------------------
>>From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
>>    
>>
>>>John, you got that backwards! IHC made a 401 for their bigger trucks
>>>before they started using the AMC 401 in their pickups and Travelalls.
>>>IHC called the AMC V-8 a "400" to help prevent confusion by their
>>>dealers/parts people. So the parts from an IHC 401 won't fit an AMC
>>>401, but parts from an IHC 400 will interchange with the AMC 401. 
>>>
>>>As stated, all were painted red and all IHC 401s came with a 2V carb
>>>stock, no factory 4Vs as I recall. The 2V carb was the only deviation
>>>from the AMC version. The 304 and 258 were the same as used by AMC
>>>except for the red paint (AMC did paint some CA spec engines red in the 
>>>late 60s or early 70s though). 
>>>
>>>On July 16, 2006 John Elle wrote:
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>Roy
>>>>International used AMC engines in some of their applications. I have
>>>>seen 401s, 304's and some I-6 engines. They were painted red.
>>>>SNIP
>>>>In Need Of a 401 Crank! Perfer standard on rods and mains But,email
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>me
>>>      
>>>
>>>>with
>>>>what you got!
>>>>Or do you know if an IH crank would fit?
>>>>SNIP
>>>>However there is absolutely no relationship between the 400 cubic
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Inch
>>>      
>>>
>>>>International engine and the 401 AMC engine. There are no parts that
>>>>will interchange at all.
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>=============================================================
>>>Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>AMC-List mailing list
>>>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>>>
>>>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>>>      
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>AMC-List mailing list
>>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>>
>>or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>AMC-List mailing list
>AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
>http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
>
>End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 6, Issue 41
>***************************************
>
>  
>



------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 13:11:37 -0500
From: Jock J Jocewicz <namdra@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Free Ads
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060717.131138.-16467995.0.NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

I have a little room in the ad section for the next NAMDRA newsletter to
be mailed out this week, so if you would like a free ad, e-mail it to me
ASAP.

Jock Jocewicz - President/Editor NAMDRA     NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx
8537 Antioch Rd., Salem, WI 53168 (262) 843-4326
          JOIN NAMDRA, the best AMC club around!!!
'06 AMC NATIONALS - SEP. 14-16, 2006 - CORDOVA DRAGWAY PARK, CORDOVA, IL
AMO#19, NAMDRA#46, AMCRC#974,  NHRA#41915, IHRA#6766


------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2006 07:25:14 +1000
From: "amckiwi" <amckiwi@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] neat gas cox powered matador
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>,	"'Eddie Stakes'"
	<eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <001901c6a9e7$7eb7c4b0$0200a8c0@tower>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="windows-1250"

Eddie etc
There is also a cox powered military jeep which is even rarer than the
Matadors
If anyone needs a pic of any of these cox cars lmk
Stu
Melbourne
Australia


-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On Behalf
Of Eddie Stakes
Sent: Sunday, 16 July 2006 2:29 PM
To: baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; AMC List
Subject: [AMC-List] neat gas cox powered matador

This is the NASCAR version, there is also a Adam 12 version, seems harder to

find, both run on real gas, great addition for someone's collection, and 
seldom seen:
http://cgi.ebay.com/VINTAGE-COX-GAS-POWERED-AMC-MATADOR-RADIO-CONTROLLED_W0Q
QitemZ330006433613QQihZ014QQcategoryZ19168QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

If link breaks above go to www.ebay.com and search for item number 
330006433613
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com

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------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 18:29:16 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 68 AMX no reserve/no sense
To: <baadassgremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <01e701c6a9f9$9ced8340$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
	reply-type=original

Aw c'mon. Everything sells on ebay I was told. This is hopefully the last 
time. After the second deadbeat bidder refused to pay, ebay kicked them off. 
He was not happy and called me a few choice names I normally hear in the 
sports bar. He also now has a Houston Police Case Number.
So here we go again, hopefully someone wants this beautiful one of a kind 
AMX. Note this car has a rare seldom seen rear spoiler. I think it was a 
prototype tossed out behind 50th street in Kenosha, and for good reason, 
except the kids can put their toys and sodas on it. The vehicle also has a 
rare rumbleseat, and I seriously doubt those drunk Green Bay Packer fans 
noticed two missing chairs as they are usually on the floor passed out 
anyhows from jello shots. Enjoy the ride.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330008960552
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
www.planethoustonamx.com



------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 20:10:40 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 68 AMX no reserve/no sense
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000401c6aa17$c3bf9440$00de0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="us-ascii"

 
SNIP
This is hopefully the last prototype tossed out in Kenosha by drunk
Green Bay Packer fans
SNIP
Eddie, 
While I recognize that your credibility is impeachable
http://www.riprense.com/bushcar.htm
and it is understood that your sources for restoration parts are beyond
reproach
http://www.oscarvandriel.nl/JYPFshotmap.html
it is  with much gnashing of teeth
http://www.gnashingofteeth.com/
that I am forced to pass on this rather unusual and dare I say rare,
automotive collectable!
I would have to store it temporarily in my back yard which in and of
itself is somewhat of a location of assorted examples of mobile oddities

http://home.att.net/~mikekiley/junkyard.htm
and if I were to add to them I have a feeling that the neighbors would
call out the local authorities with a some what justifiable complaint
and it would probably result in a visitation
http://community.webshots.com/photo/303978040/1306214139058511339WwpzmB
which would then result in a lucrative business for the local storage
lot. 
http://www.hankstruckpictures.com/pix/trucks/k_duddy/cog/northside_jacka
ss_mt.jpg
So I must with the most heartfelt apology pass on this opportunity to
obtain this "Black Diamond" in the rough which I am sure requires little
more than buffing out of the clear coat 
http://www.superwipes.com/graphics/clearcoat.jpg
in order to show in the local survivor classes. 
John. 
 
 
 


------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:42:29 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] 401 crank wanted & IH question
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES627j1HaKtKu00000095@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

LOOKING at them the difference is obvious, but just looking through a
parts book at lists of numbers it wouldn't be. It was likely a
preventative measure more than an actual problem though. But if someone 
came into a dealership and ordered, say, a water pump for a 401, I
could easily see someone ordering the wrong one if they didn't realize
the difference. Would probably only do it once before making sure they
asked about what vehicle it was in later! 

You're right about the 304. I wonder why they put those heavy things in 
Scouts instead of the much lighter AMC engines. They used the 258 and
their own four cylinder (which was half the small V-8), then used the
heavy V-8 instead of a lighter one! Maybe AMC didn't feel they had the
capacity to provide 304s or 360s (hmmm... a 360 Scout!!), but needed
the added sales to keep the volume of 401s up. I don't think the Scout
competed with Jeeps that much -- it was more or less between a CJ and
FSJ. 


On July 17, 2006 Mark Anthony Sproviero wrote:

> Yeah, I imagine that you needed something like that to carry those
anchors.  Hard to believe that they actually had a problem with mixing
up the motors.
> 
> -Spro
> 
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: Ken Ames <ameskg@xxxxxxxxx>
> 
> > I believe the BB is referring only to engines built for IHC pickups 
and similar
> > sized vehicles. The V-401 and V-461 were used in trucks like 2ton
and larger.
> >
> > Ken
> >


=============================================================
Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Mon, 17 Jul 2006 23:48:32 -0400
From: Frank Swygert <farna@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Update on surging 401
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
	<ADVANCES62fVma0osA900000096@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

Well, we agree on the 600 cfm carb as being a good size for most 401s.
As I noted, you'd have to pull 7,000 rpm before a 401 needed 750 cfm.
I'm pretty sure a stock cam won't produce any useable power over 5,000. 
Many drag racers never turn their 401s up that much! Air flow is
dependent on rpm as well, but an engine has to be capable of pumping
that much air. Cam and such does limit capability, and a cam that will
allow that much flow at high rpm won't run well at low speeds. So we're 
both on the same page, more or less. 

On July 17, 2006 Savage, Peter wrote:

> Frank,
> 
> I disagree!  The engine can only pull as much air as the CI of the
engine allows.  This is
> somewhat dependent on camshaft, but overall with stock timing gear
the 401 will not need
> anything larger than the 600 CFM carb, even on the top end...
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx]On
Behalf Of Frank Swygert
> Sent: Sunday, July 16, 2006 11:34 PM
> To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Update on surging 401
> 
> Marty, the 600 will be fine on the 401 for normal street driving.
The
> smaller venturis (barrels) will improve low speed torque, so it will
> feel better off the line and up to cruising speed. You'll lose some
top
> end performance because the engine will enventually need more
fuel/air
> than the 600 can provide.
> 
> Check this site out:
> http://www.classictruckshop.com/garage/shopmathcfm1.asp
> 
> Using the calculator there, even at 100% volumetric efficiency the
401
> only needs 580 cfm at 5,000 rpm. When you hit 80 I bet you were
around
> 4,000 at the most. The calculator defaults to 90% VE, but 80% is
more
> like average for a factory stock engine. you might get close to 90
with
> a nice intake, headers, and free flowing exhaust system, but even
then
> 85% is more like it. If you were drag dracing and turning the engine
up
> to 7,000 rpm you'd need the 750 cfm carb -- the calc says 730 at 90%
> VE. I think it defaults to 90 to give a little more carb than
> absolutely necessary, it doesn't hurt to have a little more, but not
a
> lot. Most of the guys telling you 600 cfm isn't enough are racing
their
> cars and want the higher rpm power. Street cars don't need it as
they
> rarely see over 3,000 rpm on a regular basis.
> 
> 
> On July 15, 2006 Marty Bricker wrote:
> 
> > Well, it appears that the problem was with the 750
> > Carter .  I swapped it out with my 600 Edelbrock and
> > it's running just great.
> >   I purchased the 750 cause I was told the 600 would
> > not be enough for the 401.  Where will I see a
> > difference?  It seemed to pull great off the line up
> > to 70-80 when I backed off.  I don't have any
> > experience with an engine like this (304 was biggest I
> > ever had before).  Thanks.
> > Marty
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> 
> 
> =============================================================
> Posted by wixList Archiver -- http://www.amxfiles.com/wixlist


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------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 6, Issue 42
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