AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 56
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 56
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- Date: Sat, 27 May 2006 04:11:29 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Chrome-plating Plastic (Gary Parente)
2. pass side full 1/4 68-70 amx (joey mercado)
3. testing, please ignore (Tom Jennings)
4. Springfield... Ohio that is! (Richard Estermyer)
5. hood release pull (russ hathaway)
6. Remember to read... (Mahoney, John)
7. Wanted (Jock J Jocewicz)
8. The Grill Resto Finished By June 4'th Is Over, And Will Not
Be Done . (Mr. AMC)
9. Re: Remember To Read (Mr. AMC)
10. Re: remember to read (Eddie Stakes)
11. Re: Remember To Read (Mark Price)
12. Re: Remember to read....A Sequal (John Elle)
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Message: 1
Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 15:01:28 -0400
From: Gary Parente <grparen@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Chrome-plating Plastic
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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 20:45:31 -0400
From: joey mercado <joebx@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] pass side full 1/4 68-70 amx
To: amcrelay@xxxxxxxxxxxx
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Message: 3
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 10:00:15 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] testing, please ignore
To: amc-list <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1148662814.31905.8.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
(Made list changes, ensuring success.)
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 14:20:19 -0400
From: "Richard Estermyer" <javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Springfield... Ohio that is!
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY106-F2981E0FCFD7882FCC685F9DD9E0@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed
Maybe I missed it but I will be at Springfield, Ohio this weekend for the
AMC show within a show at the fairgrounds. Every year it is a great show
and worth the trip. Car show, AMC vendors all together and they who knows
what you can find at the rest of the show.
"Clark County Fairgrounds
off I-70, Exit 59
Between Columbus and Dayton
May 26th 27th & 28th
126 Acre event 2500 Vendor spaces"
My "garage sale prices to clear out the toys and remaining t-shirts. MAYBE
regroup and redo it but not right away.
Hope to see you there!
Richard
Richard Estermyer
6235 S. Mohawk Avenue
Ypsilanti, MI 48197
734.483.5187 evenings
734.216.9003 cell
javelinman74@xxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 12:51:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: russ hathaway <russh97309@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] hood release pull
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060526195138.70119.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
the Jav looks like the 77 Hornet I just pulled off the
AMX yesterday. Any difference? I have one in good
shape and don't like inside pulls, anyone want this one.....Russ
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 17:18:09 -0400
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Remember to read...
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A02202BB0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
If you don't drive a real Rambler, drive a Rave Raffle. Meaning Tom J:
http://electricgiraffe.com/
(Meaning remember reports on his road trip to last year's Burning Man!)
>>
One minor thing John, after about 240 words, you never did say what the
sticker said...
<<
If you don't read all the way to the -end-, read again. Meaning Arfon:
>>
http://faculty.concord.edu/chrisz/hobby/67-DataBook/DataBook-Eng/eng103.html
http://southtexasamc.tripod.com/osbdecal.htm
<<
(Meaning remember the words on engine stickers that AMC itself wrote!)
(Or meaning that sometimes looking can really be better than reading!)
>>You should contribute this information to the AMCArchives
Could or should, I still wait for some building to be erected that will prove an "American Center" for the AMC hobby. Long lists of links seem like cottages under shadow of skyscrapers, individual pages (like Colin Brodsky's) seem to sink into those shadows, and clunky web designs (pro work included) seem to eclipse the best-intentioned content. Who uses, who contributes, who cooperates, and who supports all matter. What are AMC clubs for? To preserve? Yes. To promote? Of course. To profit? Fat chance. For the most part, Nash-Hudson-American Motors still seems a labor of love --- for those who love being American, independent, and different --- but they can build a shining tower topped by an AMC logo. They just need to aim higher, work harder, act smarter, and -cooperate-.
There's so much to read, so much to remember, and yet so much to learn.
Arfon, while you're remembering, remember two things about RAT that Lamm forgot. 1) His final day was, as I hope I made time to write here this spring, not in "1983," but in 1985. February 28th, if I remember right.
(And I do, I'm just acting low-key; not that anyone here seems to see.)
2) He was not solely responsible for the Caribbean: he production-ized the show car assignment done by Henney that had been designed by Arbib and had cost Ferry $10,000-plus. It was a six-week wonder (with 1930s wheels) and RAT readily acknowledged sources when asked. That's right.
Who really designed the Monte Carlo (by Packard, not by Chevrolet) may also be misreported. There's no dispute about sources of inspiration,
http://www.bellesdantan.com/Stutz/Pages/Stutz06.htm
http://tinyurl.com/fdzog
http://www.rmauctions.com/Restorations/Awards.cfm?CarID=3#
(and, if you know the '70s, which AMCs it II inspired [after all these years, any clever stuff surely still goes over like that lead balloon])
but there is debate over what was done by which Dick. Groundwork was laid, but Teague had been at Reinhart's desk for over a year when those two production '51 Mayfair hardtops were sent from Detroit to Freeport [IL] on 9/10/52 (they were shipped back on 10/22...), so the concept was one Dick's and execution was the other's. Not that anyone here cares.
Or that a few who do care have enough time to read or remember detail.
At least I still contribute "something" every day I have time to read.
A promise is "something" worth keeping --- even if it's but self-kept.
Don't get me started on who designed the Panther: I'd begin by asking, "Which one?" and meander (if -you- haven't yet, take a trip to Turkey
http://www.livius.org/a/turkey/meander/meander.html
seriously, a fascinating place to visit and the people seem very nice)
in woody wagons and fiberglass boats facing Kaiser Dragons and end by asking, "Who built the Nash Corvette?" I'm sure no one would read it without asking, "Who cares?" That's too bad, since it's AMC history.
If I simply post a link, likely no one has time to click it or read:
http://www.shiawasseehistory.com/panther.html
even if it's short, easy-to-read, and, as you should see, incomplete.
There were [at least] -three- Panthers over a period of -four- years.
Thus the Panther answer is: -three- different designers actually did.
(Which isn't what you may read in some of the routine RAT histories!)
I still can't understand why AMC doesn't care to see.
But then, AMC still hasn't seen the '80s "baby" Jeep.
New "Complete Books" of AMCetera appear. Incomplete.
Beats me.
Oh well.
Q1 - What Jeffery-Jordan history happened 80 years ago as we "speak"?
A1 - If a letter (like "e") counts (and it's not about spelling; it's about stubbornness, about refusal [of gifts given]; about respect [of self and others]; and about confusing "rights" with "wrongs" [in both senses of each word), then a number can really do a number on you. I purposely put an "8" where a "9" should be. It made no sense, right?
Right, because I wrote it wrong. So I made myself look like an idiot.
Ned Jordan's new car plant was half-finished -90- years ago this week.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Motor_Car_Company
And, as I've noted here before, Jordan had married Jeffery's daughter.
Q2 - What Najjar-Ford history happened in 1960s-1970s design for AMC?
A2 - If there's value in having a good name, then Nash, Chrysler, Ford, Chrysler, AMC, Chrysler, and ??? all knew one. Najaar designed Ford's "Diplomat" and its X-models. Of course, "X" marked the spot for many makers' ideas.
http://www.michiganlcoc.org/articles/diplomat/diplomat.html
http://www.sharonhollow.com/clayxm800.htm
http://www.sharonhollow.com/danscars/xm800file/color1asis.jpg
Q3 - What Najjar-Jordan history happened 'fore a Ford made -history-?
Najaar, in a phone call from Jordan, learned about -Chevy's- Mustang.
http://www.muscularmustangs.com/database2/stangbook.jpg
Before "pony car" and before Camaro, a horse galloped in GM's stable.
It can't be seen any longer, but still is in the eye of its designer.
It could have been called a "baby Corvette" --- or even been renamed.
Remember his next posting? Maybe there's something to see after all.
http://tinyurl.com/lf9ct
Maybe or maybe not. Maybe no AMC people care. Maybe one or two did.
If they carefully count the numbers, watch the letters, and seek the secrets -outside- the still-too-small world of AMC, they may wonder whether the first production pony car was as much totally inspired by the 1962 -Ford- Mustang
http://okmustangs.com/history/proto1.jpg
http://okmustangs.com/history/proto3.jpg
as by a "built-to-impress" 1962 named -Rambler-
http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/pic/1999/buddb.jpg
http://www.hfmgv.org/exhibits/pic/1999/buddcar.jpg
that looked as ready to ride as a 1964.5 Mustang.
http://www.muscularmustangs.com/database/stang1clay2.jpg
http://home.pon.net/hunnicutt/images/MustangII_proto.gif
Too many words, too many numbers, too much history for AMC.
If anyone's still reading (Arfon may be) and ever had a dream of buying a "like-new" 1961 Rambler Ambassador, that dream may be hard to achieve. Few built; fewer left; fewer "all-original" --- fewest in "It just left the factory!" condition. Very, very few "never-restored and as-new" -top-of-the-line- AM cars seem to exist any more. Got one?
Get one now!
No, I tease.
If you want a reasonable -facsimile- (by reason of Ex-by-Teague), a one-owner 44-year-new '62 Imperial Crown 4-door could be yours. It might not be cheap (if it were a '64-'65, it might not be posted; it might be mine: I like Engel simplicity and I like last-offs, so a final full-frame, WPC-era quality Imperial looks like a future classic to me!) at $10,000, yet if you like it, it might be your cup of metallic green tea. I haven't seen it (and won't have time to look), but it's here in WNY. (585) 345-3016.
Funny, the year Ambassador wasn't a Cadillac, it was a Chrysler Imperial.
Once those names really meant something.
Even after one became "just an AMC."
Happy something.
I'm beat.
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 16:55:45 -0500
From: Jock J Jocewicz <namdra@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Wanted
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060526.165545.-16458305.0.NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Am looking for a pair of good axles for a 66-69 Rambler/American V-8 rear
end. Or, which I doubt anyone has, a pair of Moser solid axles for the
same vehicle.
Jock Jocewicz - President/Editor NAMDRA NAMDRA@xxxxxxxx
8537 Antioch Rd., Salem, WI 53168 (262) 843-4326
JOIN NAMDRA, the best AMC club around!!!
'06 AMC NATIONALS - SEP. 14-16, 2006 - CORDOVA DRAGWAY PARK, CORDOVA, IL
AMO#19, NAMDRA#46, AMCRC#974, NHRA#41915, IHRA#6766
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 19:34:22 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: [AMC-List] The Grill Resto Finished By June 4'th Is Over, And
Will Not Be Done .
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx, amc_club_of_socal@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
AmericanMotorsModelbuilders@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
BaadAssGremlins@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, MacsOrphanCarGroup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <5878-4477907E-67@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
My back went out today big time. And standing is a real problem never
mind just walking the 10 steps to the bathroom. I quit!!! my 59 year old
body that has been disabled for almost 20 years and has defeated me on
the grill resto job and I won't make it to Ardsley show. Be back in a
few weeks maybe.
"Doc"
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 20:47:36 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Remember To Read
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <17109-4477A1A8-334@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII
John M. as I asked a few weeks ago and many months ago many times do
"YOU" own or drive a Rambler or AMC? I never saw an answer? One answer
yes or no world be sufficient? My wife is Irish and for 37 years I have
had to listen to to the babbling blarney from her and her "IRA" family
members and never get a straight answer from any of them . Blowing off
sites and rambling on is not an answer? And the answer is ?????? Sorry
Frank.
"Doc"
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 20:06:22 -0500
From: "Eddie Stakes" <eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] remember to read
To: "AMC List" <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <002f01c68129$c8734e80$28f1b148@piageedc1iqa5q>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Mahoney wrote:
American Center" for the AMC hobby:
http://www.planethoustonamx.com/parts/80_nos_cc_amxpacer.jpg
What ever happend to that sign?
Eddie Stakes'
Planet Houston AMX
713.464.8825
eddiestakes@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
*email is currently HEAVY
Call if important*
www.planethoustonamx.com
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 18:18:56 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Remember To Read
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID:
<26520013.1148692736160.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
Why does this matter? Why does anything matter?
I have had a headache for four days now, shrink says see your primary care physician. Wow, a lotta help that does on my schedule. Just finished loading in/ setting up the Toyota display at HighPoint raceway for the Motocross events this weekend. Big money for me! with a days vacation pay and the corporate union rate I get about $40 an hour. Like I can blow that off to get a shot to break up this headache and hell that may not even work! I had fun working outdoors for a change even with the headache. Tylenol and caffiene seemed to help today. Tonight I'm going with whiskey and beer :] tomorrow at least I'll have a reason for this d@#ed headache!
Does John own an AMC? Who really cares? I don't, I can't decypher half of what he writes, but the delete button works well! Grille or grill? for once I have the luck of sticking extra letters in and on words to be write or right! Whatever! Grill or to grille? that is to question! Ask not what your AMC can do for you, but rather what can you do for AMC?
Any spelling or grammar misstakes in this email are intentional, or caused by alcohol and/or stupidity! :] You decide which is real and which is an illusion!
Sorry Frank!
--
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- "Mr. AMC" <AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> John M. as I asked a few weeks ago and many months ago many times do
> "YOU" own or drive a Rambler or AMC? I never saw an answer? One answer
> yes or no world be sufficient? My wife is Irish and for 37 years I have
> had to listen to to the babbling blarney from her and her "IRA" family
> members and never get a straight answer from any of them . Blowing off
> sites and rambling on is not an answer? And the answer is ?????? Sorry
> Frank.
> "Doc"
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Fri, 26 May 2006 21:11:10 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Remember to read....A Sequal
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000001c68143$9759e240$b6dd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
John and all
Yust a few comments that periodically flash into mind
SNIP
There's no dispute about sources of inspiration,
SNIP
Weymann American Body Co. 1927-35, Indianapolis, Indiana, A subsidiary
of the f
French firm which patented a flexible fabric-covered body.
<http://www.bellesdantan.com/Stutz/Pages/Stutz06.htm>
http://www.bellesdantan.com/Stutz/Pages/Stutz06.htm
http://www.coachbuilt.com/bui/w/weymann/weymann.htm
One would be surprised to find that the French have contributed more to
the automotive world than Renaults, instant rust and poor management.
After all, AMC did have a working relationship with the French back
before or at least through the '60's and beyond, but then again wasn't
the '60's known for hallucinogenic episodes?
Or Charlie Nash and Walter P Chrysler seemed to run across one another
through out their automotive lives and History. They lived and produced
through the period of Classics with cars that aped the styling
leadership led by the incomparable Duesenberg with senior Chryslers and
Nashes that were every bit as good looking.
http://www.automotive-art.com/sub_category.asp?category=Classic+Cars
<http://www.automotive-art.com/sub_category.asp?category=Classic+Cars&su
bcategory=Duesenberg> &subcategory=Duesenberg
http://www.hubcapcafe.com/ocs/pages01/chry3102.htm
http://www.nashcarclub.org/nccaphot/thirty/32_998.html
Of course one could always argue the input from various talented people
and assorted committees as to who influenced whom and where did the
ideas come from but if you look ad the Chrysler Thunderbolt of 1940/41
http://www.imperialclub.com/Yr/1941/thunderbolt/
and the much maligned styling of the Bath Tub Nash of 1949 the only
question that seems to be un-answered is where are the front fender
skirts and who really did the design.
http://php.iupui.edu/~harrold/nash/50nash.html
But the state of the hobby is in a precarious position, where if
anywhere will the next hobbyists come from and what will they collect
and where will they get the parts and due mainly to the inability of the
caretakers of the hobby today to communicate to each other and those
around them what will those hobbyists be trying to salvage and restore.
It was not too long ago the number of VW Beatles on the road could not
be counted, the total sales for them was huge. I don't know what it is
around your house but this year I saw 5 of them so far. I have only seen
two AMC's on the road and one of them was mine.
The money people are willing to pay for a prime example of a Pacer is
pathetic, yet the market is supposedly hot at the moment. Are we
hobbyists as a group destined to see the following as the final
disposition of our beloved quirky cars?
http://www.photojournalistas.com/Sept-Oct_2002/Broken_Down_Heros/Photo_P
ages/1949_Nash_Ambassador.html
SNIP
If you don't drive a real Rambler, drive a Rave Raffle.
SNIP
I don't have a Raffle, but I times I feel the need to drive off in a
Blue Funk!
http://home.att.net/~jmsmith45/funk.htm
The following is recognized as the philosophical shift in advertising
and marketing that began to sell the aura of automobile owner ship.
SOMEWHERE west of Laramie there's a bronco-busting girl who knows what
I'm talking about.
"She can tell what a sassy pony, that's a cross between greased lighting
and the place where it hits, can do with eleven hundred pounds of steel
and action when he's going high, wide and handsome.
"The truth is-the Playboy was built for her.
"Built for the lass whose, face is brown with the sun when the day is
done of revel and romp and race.
"She loves the cross of the wild and the tame.
"There's a savor of links about that car-of laughter and lilt and
light-a hint of old loves-and saddle and quirt. It's a brawny thing -
yet a graceful thing for the sweep o' the Avenue.
"Step into the Playboy when the hour grows dull with things gone dead
and stale.
"Then start for the land of real living with the spirit of the lass who
rides, lean and rangy, into the red horizon of a Wyoming twilight."
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Motor_Car_Company>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jordan_Motor_Car_Company
Sloanism, an advertising term from the General specialized in that
philosophy and GM specialized in selling cars world wide and at one time
was better than 5% of this nation's gross national product.
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20000320/kitman/8
They taught the world to sell cars and then forgot the message. Lately
they have developed the philosophy of safety and closing plants to
decrease production volume and laying off employees to decrease their
pay roles. Is it possible that the Aura of Safety is not necessarily
producing environment required to draw people into the show room? There
are some left I see, some even have cars in them.
http://www.stopsuvs.org/html/safety.htm
ZOOM! ZOOM!
I recently had need for a replacement Van. I had a budget that I carried
to a large new car dealer and presented to a salesman. Looking of course
for a used van. I was shown cars $2000 to $3000 over my budget, I left.
It took me 3 weeks to find a really nice Town and Country, under my
budget, paid for and down the road I went from some where else. This was
not my loss. This week end I got a promotion card from this same dealer.
Come look! Take a drive! Purchase not required! So I went, looked and
took a drive. Entered the lottery and left after showing no interest to
the low ball deal and the 7 years of easy to make back breaking payments
that I would be upside down with for 5 years.
I even got a phone call from the sales manager wanting to know why I did
not snap up this terrific deal.
He was not happy when I told him why.
He presented the wrong aura,
It's late,
I'm tired,
Lemme see, where is my Funk parked.
John.
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 56
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