AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 52
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AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 52
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- Date: Thu, 25 May 2006 00:31:01 +0000
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Today's Topics:
1. Eagle exhaust questions (Roger Blake)
2. Re: Eagle exhaust questions (Mark Price)
3. my 62 classic project (d stohler)
4. Re: my 62 classic project (Tom Jennings)
5. Countdown (Mahoney, John)
6. There's more than one way to grille a lamb... (Tom Jennings)
7. From the Mopar List: Re: AMC used Ford starters... (Arfon)
8. What I did this weekend & Choke heat tube & The engine label?
- 1967 232... (Arfon)
9. Who was it that rebuilds trunions? (Arfon)
10. Re: Who Rebuilds Trunnions? (JOE FULTON)
11. Re: Countdown (It's GRILLE, dammit! ) (RetroRalph)
12. Re: & Choke heat tube (John Elle)
13. 1992 escort stalling (Teamamc)
14. Re: & Choke heat tube (Jay)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 09:22:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: Roger Blake <rogblake@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Eagle exhaust questions
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.61.0605240918380.2266@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
I'm working on an '85 Eagle wagon that I rescued from the crusher. One of
the things that it needs is a complete exhaust system.
What is the availability of the tubing for the catalytic converter
pulse air system? Is this a Jeep dealer-only part, or are there
aftermarket substitutes? I vaguely remember reading at some point
about a newer-style converter that doesn't need the air tubes -- is
this something that is actually an option or is my memory playing
tricks on me?
--
Roger Blake
rogblake@xxxxxxxxx
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 6:39:34 -0700
From: Mark Price <markprice242@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Eagle exhaust questions
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Cc: Roger Blake <rogblake@xxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<19835613.1148477974227.JavaMail.root@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
I don't believe anything that is factory fit is available for the Eagles.
A lot depends on what you need to accomplish as you can make up most of the system from aftermarket parts depending on emissions laws in your area. That would be my first step, to figure out exactly what is needed to make it legal. Yes you can eliminate most of the AIR system, but with the older carb system you run the risk of plugging catalytic converters due to improper light off times and not enough oxygen in the mix to burn cleanly.
There are a lot of people on thislist who probably have a better handle on this then me, But if I was building a driver Eagle, I'd go with a nice Basic Howell TBI injection system and a free flow cat if emissions regulations will allow it in your area. Forget the BBD feedback carb.
Alos as a possible solution, years ago Hotrod did an article on the AIR injection system on a bigblock car they built. They gave the numbers of some GM air inlet valves that opened at very low suction without an AIR pump. They used these mounted on the firewall with small K&N type filters to allow air to be drawn into the cat. I'm sorry I don't have the numbers for these valves. You can find Generic stuff to rebult the system if you need to go that route.
Mark Price
markprice242ATadelphia.net
Morgantown, WV
---- Roger Blake <rogblake@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> I'm working on an '85 Eagle wagon that I rescued from the crusher. One of
> the things that it needs is a complete exhaust system.
>
> What is the availability of the tubing for the catalytic converter
> pulse air system? Is this a Jeep dealer-only part, or are there
> aftermarket substitutes? I vaguely remember reading at some point
> about a newer-style converter that doesn't need the air tubes -- is
> this something that is actually an option or is my memory playing
> tricks on me?
>
> --
> Roger Blake
> rogblake@xxxxxxxxx
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 10:23:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: d stohler <das24rules@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060524172354.7930.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
what car would i look to for getting an anti sway bar front and rear?
dave stohler
camp taji iraq
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+ countries) for 2?/min or less.
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 12:01:11 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] my 62 classic project
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1148497271.5762.33.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain
On Wed, 2006-05-24 at 10:23, d stohler wrote:
> what car would i look to for getting an anti sway bar front and rear?
For the rear, I don't know if there ever was a factory part for the
early cars.
If anyone's used the ADDCO's available from Summit (and others) I'd love
to hear about their experience; I want to add one to my 70 Hornet
(eventually).
In front, a lot of Ramblers that vintage, even 10 and 80 cars, had no
front anti-roll bars -- my '63 doesn't.
I've done a *tiny* bit of ad hoc research; for the 'big car' the front
anti-roll are all the same EXCEPT: different diameters, and possibly
clearance bends (eg. steering box, etc) from 62-67? Around 67 the
chassis, and suspension, narrowed about an inch.
I think 62 - 65, 10 and 80 chassis will fit the 62 classic. Larger
diameters are stiffer, of course, but if you ain't got one at all,
anything is stiffer than empty holes.
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 15:15:53 -0400
From: "Mahoney, John" <jmahoney@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Countdown
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
<E8DF38ACFC17F94998DE284C5CE4582A02202BA9@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
I finally got the grill prepared to start masking it up to paint the
silver. I got 3 hours into the masking and have barely made a dent in it
so far. I know when I am done it will look like new. But to tell you the
if I had it to do all over again I don't know if I wouldn't just
paint the headlight doors and the grill pain old flat black and be done
with it. As with every other thing with this car it has went from a
simple grill re-paint of what I thought was an undamaged grill to a
major plastic repair of all the mounting points. I have 11 days to get
this job done for the show on June 4th.
<<
When it seems like the pain will never end, don't dent it, say "Avanti!"
Whether painted silver, gold, rhodium-plated, or covered with moon dust, by the time it's displayed, AMC should be black-and blue, if not totally burnt to a crisp. It's GRILLE, dammit! You've made all AMC fans look like idiots.
That's the last I will write about it. That's the lasting impression AMC people will have of you. That's why AMC lasts as a low-rated collector nameplate. That's how to represent American Motors Corporation's "last-of" legacy.
Thanks. Good luck. Avanti. Forward.
'Til it's time to stop trying for AMC.
>>
Take McPherson struts, for instance. There is no control over camber
<<
>>
That's where advertising comes in. Back in the Seventies when struts
were becoming common, many car makers mentioned them in their ads, even
though they they were inferior to the wishbone suspensions they
replaced. Since it was new, a lot of folks probably just assumed it was
better, which is what the ad writers count on...
<<
...'til the ad writers mention that "A-arms" are better than MacPherson (tut, tut, people, I -know- you remember...) struts. Designer John Najjar remembered.
"I had the instrument panels studio, taking care of designs and about that time --- let's see, that was the '54 Ford instrument panel --- there was a man in charge of engineering who was a fighter pilot in WW I. Damn, I've forgotten his name, never thought I would --- a Phi Beta Kappa key, a good engineer. I bring this point up as the personality of the individual --- MacPherson! Gee whiz, how could I forget? Earle Steele MacPherson, the father of the strut --- front-wheel suspension.
I had been designing the astro-dial which was a see-through speedometer for the 1954 Ford which was a warmed up Ford and wanted to do something on the instrument panel that would perk it up. The astro-dial sat vertically above the panel so that you could look through it, almost, if you shrunk down in the seat far enough [toward] the hood. And the idea there was to give it dramatic back lighting. And I did an automatic transmission dial that was kind of unique (patented later), and I was getting some trouble from one engineer who was not approving it and who had the right of approval, and they couldn't get his concurrence. The name Howard Reed sticks with me; I thought I'd never forget it. Anyhow, Mr. MacPherson came through one day, and Bob Maguire was there and said, 'John, show Mr. MacPherson this instrument panel.' It had become a subject of controversy, and Earle MacPherson sat down. I didn't know he had been a fighter pilot. I didn't know anything about his back!
ground, really. And he said, 'This is great. This is terrific. Why don't we do it?' And so I got the blessing from him. To a designer, here was somebody reacting to your presentation rather than the pedestrian role of the engineer at the time who had to make things work and couldn't take gambles. I understand that now, looking back, but here was an engineer who was used to taking gambles and trying it. So that worked out very fine. He later became vice-president of engineering, I think."
Good memory. Such a Ford VP title he did reach. An auto world would be grateful. And we will remember his name.
http://www.vwtrendsweb.com/features/0306vwt_macpherson_strut_suspension/
Over in the Highlands, ad writers touted torsion bars as the best things.
Next up to take a flight-of-fancy or a joyride somewhere west of Laramie?
What else? Air! (No one would remember Cadillac, Lincoln, or Mercedes.)
Back in the AMC-Rambler heyday, M-B had both A-arms -and- air suspension.
Complex, costly. D-B drove on. GM let the air out after 4 years. AMC?
http://www.american-motors.de/en/history/50s/
Says something about some car builders. Sadly says still more about US.
Someday ads might sell us Daf Variomatic, Packard Ultramatic, and Hudson Magic Hand. They may prove the magic of the written word that's still "Lost" on AMC Island. Then poof! Someday, all that we took for granted may simply disappear. As AMC did. A self-defeating little car company? Ah, but that wasn't the way it was supposed to be.
"Nash is eager to take you to those unspoiled secret places of the world, where roads and hills keep lesser cars away. There's a new kind of engine whose pick-up will match any scared jack-rabbit you meet. There's even a Convertible Bed! So that you can sleep near your favorite trout stream."
Yes.
"Out in God's country at twilight. Nature in Autumn's costume. An alluring road. A crescent moon. A party of your own choosing. And a Jordan Silhouette."
Yes!
"You stop a moment to enjoy it all. Then you settle back --- and touch the throttle. Smoothly, silently, the Silhouette slips away."
-Yes-!
"Through secluded villages and sleeping fields. There's a new life in the air --- a new tingle in the blood. No longer the blas? driver of yesterday. You are the companion of a new kind of car --- answering the call of the open country --- yielding to the whims of the moment --- a royal vagabond traveling the road to Everywhere."
YES!!!
(Apologies to Ms. Meg, Mr. Billy, and Mrs. Carl...)
Forward. Backward. We have better places to be.
Q1 - What Jeffery-Jordan history happened 80 years ago as we "speak"?
Q2 - What Najjar-Ford history happened in 1960s-1970s design for AMC?
Q3 - What Najjar-Jordan history happened 'fore a Ford made -history-?
Oh, the fascinating things you could be learning.
>From Ned Jordan (dead), Chuck Jordan (79), or me.
But I don't have time for idiots; even with AMCs.
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 12:32:39 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] There's more than one way to grille a lamb...
To: amc-list <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <1148499158.8320.4.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Message: 7
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:50:09 -0500
From: Arfon <Arfon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] From the Mopar List: Re: AMC used Ford
starters...
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060524144906.03976808@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
How accurate is Bill's history?
>Ford, Chrysler, AMC and Studebaker all used Autolite / Prestolite starters
>at one time or another. The 1960's Ford starters were actually a variation
>of the Autolite starter. Ford bought Autoilite's spark plug division in
>1961 plus the righte to the Autoilote name. What was left of the original
>Autolite company adopted the name Prestolite, another division of the former
>Electric Autolite Company, which itself became the Prestolite Company..
>
>Chrysler started using Autolite electrics in 1935, dropping Delco-Remy,
>while Ford, Hudson, Nash, and Willys went back into the 1920's. Some lists
>show Ford starters appearing around 1954, but they were still built by
>Autolite. Nash, Packard and Studebaker used a mixture of Delco-Remy and
>Autolite electrics druing the 1950's.
>
>The big change came with Ford's purchase of Autolite in 1961, and Ford
>started making their own starters along with the spark plugs. Chrysler in
>the U.S. started making their own starters by 1962 (Chrysker Canada
>continued to use Prestolite starters on the slant six through 1966) while
>Rambler and Studebaker went to all Autolite/Prestolite by 1960-61.
>
>AMC used a mixture of Prestolite, Delco-Remy and Ford electrics from 1967
>to 1970, but swtiched completely to Ford for 1971..
>
>Ford was forced to sell off Autolite in the 1970's but kept building their
>own electrical equipment under the Motorcraft name.
>
>So if you wonder why those inertia starters on Plymouth, Dodge, DeSoto,
>Chrysler, Imperial, Valiant, Ford, Meteor, Edsel, Mercury, Monarch, Lincoln,
>Hudson, Essex, Terraplance, Nash, LaFayette, Rambler,. AMC, Studebaker,
>Rockne, Packard, Willys, and Jeep vehicles all look so similar, it's because
>they all trace their roots to Autolite.
>
>Bill
>Vancouver, BC
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:50:33 -0500
From: Arfon <Arfon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] What I did this weekend & Choke heat tube & The
engine label? - 1967 232...
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060524145028.01ce55b0@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
I rebuilt my battery tray this weekend. The back supports were still being
held on by just a bit of rust so, I cut the back off and welded on a new piece.
BEFORE: http://www.arvonia.net/~arfon/Rambler%20Battery%20Tray/MVC-004F.JPG
AFTER: http://www.arvonia.net/~arfon/Rambler%20Battery%20Tray/MVC-006F2.JPG
Also, Thanks to Matt, I have determined that I am NOT missing a brass rod
from my carburetor. But, I am missing the choke control mechanism. It
looks like there used to be a heat tube:
http://www.arvonia.net/~arfon/Rambler%20Battery%20Tray/MVC-002F.JPG
http://www.arvonia.net/~arfon/Rambler%20Battery%20Tray/MVC-001F.JPG
...and that it was cut off and a manual choke installed. I'd like to put
the automatic one back. Any opinions on how to replace that tube?
Lastly, This 1967 California 232 had a silver lable on the rocker arm cover...
http://www.arvonia.net/~arfon/Rambler%20Battery%20Tray/MVC-003F.JPG
...anyone know what it used to say?
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:53:41 -0500
From: Arfon <Arfon@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Who was it that rebuilds trunions?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <6.1.2.0.2.20060524145303.03a075c8@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed
Who was it that rebuilds trunions?
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:07:23 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Who Rebuilds Trunnions?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060524210723.5437.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
I think Walt Garson in Colorado still rebuilds them.
Also, there is a guy in the Phoenix, AZ area (can't
recall his name but I have sold him some parts in the
past) who advertises rebuilt trunnions on epage.com
and perhaps on Ebay.
Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA
------------------------------
Message: 11
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 14:22:50 -0700
From: "RetroRalph" <retroralph@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Countdown (It's GRILLE, dammit! )
To: "AMC-List" <AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <007601c67f78$36353ea0$6400a8c0@ralphs1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=iso-8859-1;
reply-type=original
I'm glad you're giving up on this one. Don't you realize we are mostly here
for the person's experiences in doing their "AMC thing"? You are kind of
insulting here.
Your goading for everyone to make a better place for AMC in history should
be replaced by your personal contributions to that effort . See Frank &
Matt in that regard if you have not already... You seem to have the sources
and you can write... Hell, you're way ahead of everyone else in that regard.
If you can get it into a document file, it can pretty quickly go right into
a web page format and be posted for the world. You're a writer, aren't you?
Now will you tell me what you might mean by this "Avanti!" thing? Hey, I
don't want to go to some international literary school for automotive
writing so I can understand you or the smart remarks and innuendo. Who has
time for that BS.
See: Web definitions for Avanti
L'Avanti era il quotidiano del Partito Socialista Italiano. Il nome
del
giornale fu ispirato dall'omonimo periodico della socialdemocrazia
tedesca. Il primo numero usc? a Roma il 25 dicembre 1896. Fu
diretto inizialmente da Leonida Bissolati.
it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avanti - Definition in context
Let me read Mr. AMC messages in peace. I can skim or pass over your stuff
as I see fit. I would prefer plain midwestern low English, though. I have
a Hornet (grill/ grille) to fix up myself.
May your old George Forman Grille fall on your dang foot. You got my
goat...
______________________________________________________________
Ralph Ausmann - Hillsboro, OR - > <ralph.ausmann@xxxxxxxxx>
http://mysite.verizon.net/res79g4m/ ... and "check the links"
--------------------------------previous
message-----------------------------------------
When it seems like the pain will never end, don't dent it, say "Avanti!"
Whether painted silver, gold, rhodium-plated, or covered with moon dust, by
the time it's displayed, AMC should be black-and blue, if not totally burnt
to a crisp. It's GRILLE, dammit! You've made all AMC fans look like
idiots.
That's the last I will write about it. That's the lasting impression AMC
people will have of you. That's why AMC lasts as a low-rated collector
nameplate. That's how to represent American Motors Corporation's "last-of"
legacy.
Thanks. Good luck. Avanti. Forward.
'Til it's time to stop trying for AMC.
________________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Message: 12
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 16:17:00 -0700
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] & Choke heat tube
To: AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <000201c67f88$2d1fb3d0$ebdd0d82@john1>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Arfon
SNIP
But, I am missing the choke control mechanism. It
looks like there used to be a heat tube and that it was
cut off and a manual choke installed. I'd like to put
the automatic one back.
Any opinions on how to replace that tube?
SNIP
Working from and old memory that is faded a bit with time, It seems to
me that last time had to deal with that the tube going through the
exhaust manifold was steel and what was wrong the tube going to the
carburetor had rotted away with rust and I was able to drill out the
steel tube in the exhaust manifold using a drill that just removed the
residual rust with out damaging the steel tube (which will cause and
exhaust manifold leak) and use a small piece of copper tube to conduct
the heat to the automatic choke on the carburetor it self. The copper
tube was inserted into the steel tube that is in the exhaust manifold.
But I will admit that it has been quite a while since I played with
that. The newer AMC cars have electric chokes which may not be a bad way
to go if you can find the change over parts off of a newer YF Carburetor
for a donor.
John
------------------------------
Message: 13
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 17:40:50 -0600
From: Teamamc <Teamamc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 1992 escort stalling
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <001201c67f8b$7d5c71f0$6700a8c0@FAST>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
My sons 1982 Spirit GT rear ended a 1992 Escort Wagon.
1.9 litre fuel injected.
The electric fuel pump reset did not trip.
After the accident the ford started and stalled after a few minutes.
I towed to a garage to have them look at it.
The next morning the car starts fine with out anybody looking at it.
It has stalled intermitanly 6 times in a week.
The car usually starts up after sitting for a bit.
Does anybody have any suggestions on what might be wrong.
Dirt dislodged in the tank and clogging the p/u.
Wie dilodged somewhere in the rear.
The fords owner does not want to go through insurance so
I am trying to fix it myself as my son was at fault.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks
Bryan
teamamc@xxxxxxxxxxx
------------------------------
Message: 14
Date: Wed, 24 May 2006 20:27:15 -0400
From: "Jay" <jciampi@xxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] & Choke heat tube
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <019d01c67f92$7e8a6670$ebc41ecf@Ciampi>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Why not use an electric choke. My Holley carb works fine with it.
Jay in fL.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Elle" <johnelle@xxxxxxxxx>
To: <AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Wednesday, May 24, 2006 7:17 PM
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] & Choke heat tube
>
> Arfon
> SNIP
> But, I am missing the choke control mechanism. It
> looks like there used to be a heat tube and that it was
> cut off and a manual choke installed. I'd like to put
> the automatic one back.
>
> Any opinions on how to replace that tube?
> SNIP
> Working from and old memory that is faded a bit with time, It seems to
> me that last time had to deal with that the tube going through the
> exhaust manifold was steel and what was wrong the tube going to the
> carburetor had rotted away with rust and I was able to drill out the
> steel tube in the exhaust manifold using a drill that just removed the
> residual rust with out damaging the steel tube (which will cause and
> exhaust manifold leak) and use a small piece of copper tube to conduct
> the heat to the automatic choke on the carburetor it self. The copper
> tube was inserted into the steel tube that is in the exhaust manifold.
> But I will admit that it has been quite a while since I played with
> that. The newer AMC cars have electric chokes which may not be a bad way
> to go if you can find the change over parts off of a newer YF Carburetor
> for a donor.
> John
>
> _______________________________________________
> AMC-List mailing list
> AMC-List@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.amc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/amc-list
>
> or go to http://www.amc-list.com
>
------------------------------
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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 52
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