AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 9

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Today's Topics:

   1. 232 in Classic (JOE FULTON)
   2. Re: Door Hinges.... (Safety Beams -- and bumpers) (farna@xxxxxxx)
   3. 1971 401 in 1970 Ambassador (Robert Cloud)
   4. Re: More on Ram Air (Widiker, John D)
   5. Re: More Valve Cover Woes (John Elle) (Jim Blair)
   6. Any Renault people out there? (Jim Blair)
   7. Shipping COSTS!!?? (William Renshaw)
   8. Re: Shipping COSTS!!?? (Widiker, John D)
   9. Door Beams -- Bumpers -- Javelins (Mr. AMC)
  10. Shipping Costs (JOE FULTON)
  11. Re: Non AMC Power Steering Question (Tom Jennings)
  12. Dumb question of the day.... (William Renshaw)
  13. Re: Shipping COSTS!!?? (Tom Jennings)


----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 05:36:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 232 in Classic
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060503123652.34088.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Tom J. wrote:
snip
I seem to specialize in pointlessly, needlessly,
complex tasks. Ergo,
the '70 232 in the '63 Classic -- in 1988, with noone
to ask, I had to
rummage around to figure out I needed a V8 x-member.
Stupid task.
---------------------
Just as a point of interest (hopefully) a previous
owner transplanted a 232 into my 64 Classic by using
pieces of 2 x 4 channel iron to raise the motor mounts
on the original 6 cylinder crossmember.  The 196 must
be taller than the 232 (makes sense with the longer
stroke).  It's a clean installation, but the homemade
perches do indicate a transplant.  

Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA


------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 12:34:52 +0000
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Door Hinges.... (Safety Beams -- and bumpers)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx (AMC-List)
Message-ID:
	<050320061234.5882.4458A36C000400AF000016FA21602806510E029D0E00@xxxxxxx>
	

John Mahoney posted the NHTSA link yesterday. To quote from the link: "In 1970, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration issued Federal motor Vehicle Safety Standard 214, which incorporated the static test and required all passenger cars to achieve certain minimum scores on the test, effective January 1, 1973." That would mean half the 1973 models -- early ones built in the last third of 72 technically didn't have to have them. Manufacturers had fore warning of upcoming regulations and most started early, but not always (such as the VIN on the dash -- early 68 models have it under the hood, and some have it in both places). 

The bumper regulation has changed, but I did find this quote from a report on the effectiveness of the new regualtion: "Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard (FMVSS) 215, "Exterior Protection," was initially effective on September 1, 1972, and imposed requirements which prohibited damage to specified safety-related components such as headlamps and fuel systems in a series of perpendicular barrier impacts, at 5 mph for front and 2.5 mph for rear bumper systems." I don't think it was by chance that the effective date was September 1. That would be when the new 73 models were introduced. Only a handful of cars would have been made in August, and the bumper design impacts the look of the car, so all 73 models would have the same. 

As I stated in an earlier post, AMC got a waiver for the Javelin due to it being the last year of production for that body. To bad they didn't doll/sport up the Hornet hatchback and make it the new Javelin. It was just swoopy enough to have worked, and been perfectly in sync with the downsized Mustang II. A unique grille and maybe some trim would have been enough to differentiate it from the Hornet line. Everyone would know it was built on the same body, but it would have had a few distinct touches setting it off from the standard Hornets. 

--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Independent 
Magazine" (AIM)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)

-- original message ----------------------------

Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 06:54:03 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Door Hinges.... (Safety Beams)

Frank thanks for almost clearing up the Javelin bumper question for me
but wasent 73 the year all cars had to have a front 5 mph bumper? I know
on 73 Hornet's the rear 5 mph bumper was an option and mandatory in 74.
I know the Hornet info from looking into buying a 73 but I ended up
buying a 74 instead.
"Doc"


------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 13:48:08 +0000
From: "Robert Cloud" <runrmc@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] 1971 401 in 1970 Ambassador
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Message-ID: <BAY102-W369C68D3A0F18F95BA1A0DAB70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

How difficult would it be to replace a 390 with a 401 engine in a 1970 Ambassador?
Would the old trans still work?

thanks,

Bob
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------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 10:21:34 -0400
From: "Widiker, John D" <john.widiker@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More on Ram Air
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<166687AF0F5A7E48A457F68AE39A6F130571E105@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

Who is selling these? I'd very much like to see the repro parts. 

-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of John Elle
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 10:47 PM
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More on Ram Air

ARMAND
SNIP
 I know the duct work and scoops are now being reproduced, and the
vacuum actuator is available from somewhere because Ford used the same
part.
SNIP
I personally do not know whether Ford Used the same part but apparently
the same vacuum solenoid was used by the Hornet for heater control. It
requires the mounting bracket to be re-bent to mount in the ram air
position. I have the one on my Donohue configured to be open all of the
time and it has been that way for about 15 years or better. It was
originally functional but the factory had a requirement to pass smog, so
if you do not have to meet that requirement or the smog check boys do
not catch it or care open all the time works. 
SNIP
I think I could fabricate my own door and linkages, Just not sure about
the air cleaner body and top and the controls.
SNIP
I think at this time most of the plastic parts are being reproduced, not
sure completely, I know the gasket is. However the air cleaner bowl can
be fabricated from junk yard parts with a little creativity. You need a
14 inch diameter air cleaner bowl. The height of the sides will have to
be determined for your own applications. The variables are the
carburetor and intake manifold you are using and the particular bowl you
find. You need a mounting plate (bowl mount) that gives you a 10 inch
flat spot around the top of the carburetor. This will allow you to use a
10 inch open filter which is what many AMC I-6 engines used. The height
of the filter is perfect if you are using an AFB and an Air Gap
manifold, other heights can be found by going through filter application
books. If you are unable to find a used 14 inch bowl with the right side
heights and fits your 4bbl you can do some grafting depending on how
good your skills are. I used a 1966 Plymouth Satellite 318 2bbl bowl and
fitted it onto the bottom of an Edelbrock chrome air cleaner mount and
installed the "Chimney" so that it appeared factory and it all fits and
looks correct. I am sure you can find a 10 inch filter cap that can be
chromed, I have seen a bunch of them and they might even be made for
aftermarket. 
It can be done! But it probably won't be cheap.
John
 
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------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 07:52:19 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More Valve Cover Woes (John Elle)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F15CECCE52B5C1432AB3237ACB70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

A: I did one of the aftermarket plastic covers on the Mexican six I had 
(with plastic cover) in my '83 Cherokee (last of the full size Cherokees 
that looked just like a Grand Wagoneer stripped down) I did it in the truck 
and used studs instead of bolts to complete the job. I ignored the rear hole 
and using the grey silicone (high heat) I managed to seal it well enough 
that no leaks were visible. (However, due to blowby at the end of it's life, 
from the oil pressure sender blowing off on the highway and draining all the 
oil for about 50 miles before I noticed it, the dipstick and "roadtube" 
seemed to always have some visible oil staining and the undercarriage was 
rustproofed!)


From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] More Valve Cover Woes (John Elle)
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1146637130.5449.8.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Tue, 2006-05-02 at 19:54, John Elle wrote:
>TOM
>SNIP
>As usual, TMI on this subject:
>SNIP

TMI squared!

>Thanks for the URL
>Unbelievable, who would have thunk it! That valve cover looks
like the
>one that I installed on an '81 Spirit and it did fit a whole
lot better
>on that car. However drilling the holes in the head to put the
mounting
>screws in was a less than satisfactory endeavor when tried
with the
>engine still in the car.

I did it with the engine assembled, but on a stand. It would
have been
impossible to get that rear one tapped.

Even with a plug tap, there's not a lot of leeway in bolt
length; if you
look closely at my setup you'll see I have two lockwashers to
adjust
thread depth; I could have cut bolts to length but I'm lazy and
while
this is inelegant it's reliable and repeatable.

The 1970 Hornet is unique, even from 71 and 72. All sorts of
little
things are "off", gas caps, etc. It's sort of a 69-1/2 American.
Most if
the differences between 70 and 71-72 are cosmetic though.

> > but I have to admit, I
>have not experienced the fun of trying to install a Jeep after
market
>aluminum valve cover on an 81 or newer AMC I-6 installed a
1970 Hornet.

I seem to specialize in pointlessly, needlessly, complex tasks.
Ergo,
the '70 232 in the '63 Classic -- in 1988, with noone to ask, I
had to
rummage around to figure out I needed a V8 x-member. Stupid
task.

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 07:58:50 -0700
From: "Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Any Renault people out there?
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY114-F56ADD9D6A91AEC3FF3FE2ACB70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

There is waaay pre-AMC buyout so I won't hold that against it. I have a 
friend with a '61 Fleuris convertible (removable hardtop with a rag as well) 
with 30,000 miles original on it. Body got some denting recently but I was 
going to help her try to sell it on EBay. Any Renault sites out there? She's 
the original owner (bought it in Paris at the plant with her husband on 
their honeymoon and she even has pictures of them in front of the Eiffel 
tower)

_________________________________________________________________
Don?t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! 
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/



------------------------------

Message: 7
Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 08:16:12 -0700
From: "William Renshaw" <lionwren@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Shipping COSTS!!??
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY105-F76F2444DFC9B21F9C0502C5B70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

Has anyone encountered the cost of shipping something?? I have someone who 
wants the grille off of this Matador that I am parting out. Last week I went 
to a local bodie shop and found this really bigassedbox. The gille fit and 
so did all the rest of the parts this guy wants to purchase. It weighed only 
34 pounds and UPS wanted 125 bucks to ship! They said it was the size of the 
box. SO.... I found a smaller box but had to make an end cap. The grille 
stuck out about 3 inches on one end and I wasnt able to fit any of the other 
parts this guy wants. I went back to the same UPS shipping office.....got 
the same quote on shipping...125 bucks!! The box went from 34 pounds to 14 
pounds and the cost was the same. I went to the post office and they want 85 
bucks for a parcel post. Is there any other way to ship?  What am I sapposed 
to do?? I dont want to seem like I am scammin' the guy on shipping, but that 
is astronomical for shipping. Anyone have any ideas on how to ship somthing 
with out paying an outrageous costs? Its got me kind of frustrated to say 
the least. Any responce will be greatly appreciated!!



Bill Renshaw Lewiston Idaho
AKA Brother B.
AMC'S RULE.....the rest just drool like the dogs they are.
1973 Gremlin X "clone" (project)
1970 Original Hornet "plain jane"
1974 Matador Coupe "Parts car"




------------------------------

Message: 8
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 11:33:38 -0400
From: "Widiker, John D" <john.widiker@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Shipping COSTS!!??
To: <amc-list@xxxxxxx>
Message-ID:
	<166687AF0F5A7E48A457F68AE39A6F130571E107@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain;	charset="US-ASCII"

 enclose a copy of the receipt for shipping, I've never complained when
someone charges "actual" shipping. That's outside of your control and if
he wants the stuff it might be worth it to him. I sent an endura 68 gto
bumper via greyhound for this very reason, nobody else was even willing
to touch it for less then a mint. 

~John

-----Original Message-----
From: amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx [mailto:amc-list-bounces@xxxxxxx] On
Behalf Of William Renshaw
Sent: Wednesday, May 03, 2006 11:16 AM
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [AMC-List] Shipping COSTS!!??

Has anyone encountered the cost of shipping something?? I have someone
who wants the grille off of this Matador that I am parting out. Last
week I went to a local bodie shop and found this really bigassedbox. The
gille fit and so did all the rest of the parts this guy wants to
purchase. It weighed only
34 pounds and UPS wanted 125 bucks to ship! They said it was the size of
the box. SO.... I found a smaller box but had to make an end cap. The
grille stuck out about 3 inches on one end and I wasnt able to fit any
of the other parts this guy wants. I went back to the same UPS shipping
office.....got the same quote on shipping...125 bucks!! The box went
from 34 pounds to 14 pounds and the cost was the same. I went to the
post office and they want 85 bucks for a parcel post. Is there any other
way to ship?  What am I sapposed to do?? I dont want to seem like I am
scammin' the guy on shipping, but that is astronomical for shipping.
Anyone have any ideas on how to ship somthing with out paying an
outrageous costs? Its got me kind of frustrated to say the least. Any
responce will be greatly appreciated!!



Bill Renshaw Lewiston Idaho
AKA Brother B.
AMC'S RULE.....the rest just drool like the dogs they are.
1973 Gremlin X "clone" (project)
1970 Original Hornet "plain jane"
1974 Matador Coupe "Parts car"


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or go to http://www.amc-list.com



------------------------------

Message: 9
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 11:43:16 -0400
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx (Mr. AMC)
Subject: [AMC-List] Door Beams -- Bumpers -- Javelins
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <2326-4458CF94-1097@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII

I agree Frank about guessing up a Hornet Hatchback and making it the new
Javelin. I was not a big fan of the 71-74 Javelin's, I have only
recently come to appreciate them since my son has 2 of them a 72 and a
74. The same with the Hornet coup. In my opinion the Hatchback roof line
made the car along with the new nose. Although since they had a few
years warning on the new bumper laws I think all the automotive
manufacturers should have come up with better designs. They ALL looked
like an add on after thought. My big beef with the 70 Hornet versus the
Rambler Americans other than no hardtop was the lack of usable trunk
space. My 65 American 440 hardtop had a bigger trunk. AMC sacrificed
that for the longer nose short trunk design that had become popular
instead of a practical design. On the Hornet/Javelin you could have used
the 4 rectangular tail lights from the 73-74 Javelin or maybe make them
six and a different nose than the Hornet. I mean you had the basic car
already in production and it had a V8 option. Even though the day of the
true muscle car was almost over a 304 2 bbl or 360 4 bbl 4 speed option
in a small car like that would be quite impressive and be smog legal and
give above average gas mileage when driven nicely. The 77 Hornet AMX was
a nice looking car except for the Targa bar in my opinion. The flairs
faded into the body and looked like they were designed into the car and
not an after thought like the 78 Concord AMX. And the rear window lover
added a nice touch to the look of the roof line. Well all of this is
water over the dam now. But for me as you all know the orange 74 Hornet
I have been building over the last 2 1/2 years has slowly been made into
what I think a Hornet AMX should look like. I bought this car as a daily
driver never intending to make so many changes. It seems it just morfed
into a super project all by itself and took me along for the ride. LoL
:-) 
"Doc"



------------------------------

Message: 10
Date: Wed, 3 May 2006 09:42:24 -0700 (PDT)
From: JOE FULTON <piper_pa20@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Shipping Costs
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <20060503164224.58084.qmail@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

I have shipped a lot of oversize items in the past few
months since I have been parting out three Ramblers. 
John Widiker mentioned Greyhound which has about the
best shipping rates for oversize items.  However, the
buyer must be willing to travel to the Greyhound
terminal to pick up the item.

UPS, Fedex and U.S.Mail all publish the size
limitations for packages on their websites.  To save
all the running around looking for boxes, if I can't
find an appropriately sized box at work, there is a
moving supplies store convenient to me.  The tall lamp
box 14x14x40 works great because you can telescope one
box over another for extra length and only end up with
the box lenght you actually need.  The boxes are $4
each and I charge the customer for them.

I do resent it when someone puts an exorbitant
handling charge in addition to shipping but even I
must recognize that the sender has a right to charge
for his trouble in packaging the item.

Joe Fulton
Salinas, CA


------------------------------

Message: 11
Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 11:17:33 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Non AMC Power Steering Question
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1146680252.6205.12.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 03:43, Sandwich Maker wrote:

> i keep thinking it must have a crack, loose fitting, bad o-ring or
> something, on the suction side of the pump, so that it can pull a
> little air into the fluid.  but i'm baffled why it took a day for the
> foaming to recur.
> 
> the other time foaming happens is when there's a leak on the pressure
> side; when the fluid level gets low enough the pump pulls air from the
> reservoir, but this clearly isn't your problem.


It could also be simply overfilled; there is a recommended fill
proceedure, and overfill is a big mess. The original problem could have
been a cracked hose etc sucking in air, but compunded by overfilling.


------------------------------

Message: 12
Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 11:19:40 -0700
From: "William Renshaw" <lionwren@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: [AMC-List] Dumb question of the day....
To: amc-list@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <BAY105-F35DC21CF37C7236F658C3CC5B70@xxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

How do I respond to a message? Or should I say how do I respond to a message 
to keep it in the thread? I made the guy who wants the grille off of the 
Mattie an offer and he took it. He wants the grille so he is willing to pay 
for the parcel post to send it. I offered to send his other items and I 
would pay for the shipping costs on those items. I have someone else who 
wants the rear bumper and the fenders and I have decided to ship them 
Greyhound. I just hope that they dont get beat up more then what they all 
ready are (the fenders). I have heard of some horror stories about sending 
and shipping Greyhound and I have seen first hand how they treat stuff, 
having to take the bus more then once when the big truck I was operating 
broke down. SO MUCH FUN on a bus!  Anyone ever shipped fenders before? 
Should I just box them or should I wrap them in bubble wrap then wrap them 
in card board? Again I thank all who may respond in advance.



Bill Renshaw Lewiston Idaho
AKA Brother B.
AMC'S RULE.....the rest just drool like the dogs they are.
1973 Gremlin X "clone" (project)
1970 Original Hornet "plain jane"
1974 Matador Coupe "Parts car"




------------------------------

Message: 13
Date: Wed, 03 May 2006 11:21:24 -0700
From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: [AMC-List] Shipping COSTS!!??
To: amc-list@xxxxxxx
Message-ID: <1146680484.6205.19.camel@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Content-Type: text/plain

On Wed, 2006-05-03 at 08:33, Widiker, John D wrote:
>  enclose a copy of the receipt for shipping, I've never complained when
> someone charges "actual" shipping. 

Good idea. Given the dimensions, point the buyer to the UPS website and
they can calc the price themselves to check. 


------------------------------

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End of AMC-List Digest, Vol 4, Issue 9
**************************************