mail Digest for 3 Mar 2006 in hour 7:00
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mail Digest for 3 Mar 2006 in hour 7:00
- From: "mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx" <List@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
- Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 07:05:18 -0800
Topics covered in this issue include:
1: {FORGED?} Re: {FORGED?} Re: 74 Hornet Headlight Switch & Fuel Gauge
by AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx
2: Re: Oh, AMC-Renault
by farna@xxxxxxx
3: Re: My Hornet paint...
by farna@xxxxxxx
4: Re: AMC model 20 posi
by farna@xxxxxxx
5: Re: My Hornet paint...
by farna@xxxxxxx
6: Re: 69 Rebel wagon...
by farna@xxxxxxx
7: Re: My Hornet paint...
by <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
8: RE: 69 Rebel wagon...
by "Savage, Pete" <PSavage@xxxxxxxxxxx>
9: RE: 69 Rebel wagon...
by "Peter W. Szymanski (SAEP)" <szymansp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
10: RE: 69 Rebel wagon...
by "Peter W. Szymanski (SAEP)" <szymansp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
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1 Message:0001 1
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 05:50:34 -0500
From: AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx
Subject: {FORGED?} Re: {FORGED?} Re: 74 Hornet Headlight Switch & Fuel Gauge
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62FRaqbC8wS00000008@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On March 2, 2006 Tom Jennings wrote:
> On Tue, 2006-02-28 at 15:28, AMC74Hornet@xxxxxxxxx wrote:
>
> > Thanks Tom but I am aware of the ground wire as I made that
> > mistake in the past many years ago. I hate !@#$%^& with
> > electrical problems. How's the paint job coming?
>
> Just thought I'd mention it... !
>
> Paint? SLOOOOOOOOOOOWWWLY! I go over there this AM to see. Damn it's
> been a long time since I drove that car.
Tom my orange car was at my friends shop for almost 11 months while I did the complete interior but I had my yellow one to drive everyday except in the bad weather. It sounds like your paint job will be well worth the wait. You cant rush quality.
"Doc"
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2 Message:0002 2
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:08:55 -0500
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Oh, AMC-Renault
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62ednHM3SOl00000015@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On March 2, 2006 Mahoney, John wrote:
>>
Was it an error that a Medallion pamphlet showed up in the McClellan's link
instead of a Premier? I would think so, but maybe not. Both cars were really
hindered by the Renault connection -- the Medallion was of
<<
No, the Medallion manual was shown because it was for American Motors Sales
staff and because Medallion had a surprisingly expensive launch: Expensive by
AMC standards and extensive even by those of AMC-Renault. Medallion was a much
more "important" product than AMC history knows.
I can't quote stories or statistics off the top of my head (and don't intend to
look them up), but the Medallion [consumer] brochure itself was a very big
deal. Top talent, multiple designs, expensive prints, the whole shebang. Not
at all typical of AMC during its final years.
--------------------
The Medallion was actually a very nice car! I almost bought one about a year and a half before my ex and I split back in 1995. It was a few years old, of course, but a doctor in Atlanta had owned it and hadn't put a lot of miles on it. I don't recall hte mileage, just that it was well under average. The sales lot wanted to move it, so offered a great price. You can always get bargains on real orphan cars -- not something like Olds and Plymouth. Anyway, it had the 2.2L which was surprisingly plenty power for the wagon I drove. The ex didn't like it being so big and van-like in the back, though she had wanted to look at mini-vans (go figure...) and I didn't want that. We ended up with the last of the Subaru Legacy FWD cars (after 93 all were AWD). Lucky for the ex we didn't get the Medallion -- she's still driving that Subaru! I doubt the Medallion would have fared as well. If for no other reason it would be expensive to maintain over the last few years due to cost of parts, e!
ven tune-up parts in the US.
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3 Message:0003 3
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:28:37 -0500
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: My Hornet paint...
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62ZbLAX3cf300000018@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On March 2, 2006 amckiwi wrote:
> Tom
> If the car was in Australia it would be a Rambler Hornet
> They never made the change to AMC here
> Am looking forward to seeing some pics
> Cheers
> Stu
> Melbourne
> Australia
NONE of the overseas assembled cars got the AMC moniker. All kept Rambler. Now cars that were exported from Kenosha to Europe carried the AMC nameplate, at least those sent to France and Germany -- the Pacer in particular.
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4 Message:0004 4
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:34:57 -0500
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: AMC model 20 posi
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62FRaqbC8wS00000019@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Trac-Loc was the Dana name for their limited slip axle. Since a lot of Jeeps had Dana 30, 35, and 44 axles, that's probably what he's used to calling it. If yours has an AMC 20 axle, the diffs will swap. If the Jeep has a Dana 44, it's a no-go, of course.
As Andrew noted. 2.87-4.10 used the same AMC carrier. Someone now makes a 4.56 and 4.88 that I *think* fits the "3 series" carrier, but that may just be for the Dana 35 in later models (and will fit the AMC 15). Randy's Ring and Pinion or some Jeep supplier will know for sure about the gears.
On March 2, 2006 Armand Eshleman wrote:
> Hello listers.
>
> Can anyone help me with some information regarding twin grip for the AMC
> model 20. Did Jeep call this feature "Posi TracK Loc" ? Or is that just a
> term a guy came up with cause he couldn't think of Twin Grip.
> Will my 2:87 gear ratio in my 70 AMC model 20 work on a jeep track loc
> carrier that had 2:72 gears ?? I want to swap carriers.
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5 Message:0005 5
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:26:01 -0500
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: My Hornet paint...
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62S2TRqf69a00000017@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
On March 2, 2006 Tom Jennings wrote:
> The gray/white line will get a 3/32" black tape stripe. I really want
> painted pinstripe, but I will later get nomenclature done in two-tone
> white and grey ("Rambler Hornet", "4.2L", etc but in a retro-modern
> typeface like I did with the gauges)
>
> (Yes Rambler Hornet, I like that better. Like the Mythbuster guy says,
> "I substitute my reality for yours". Only AMCers will know to object.
> I'll just say it was assembled in the Azores or something.)
Or better yet, you drove down to Mexico and picked it up! Drat... now you need to stroke it though... Mexican Ramblers in the late 70s got 252 and 282 sixes. 252 (4.1L) is a 3.92" bore block (4.0L bored 0.030" over is 3.91") w/232 crank, "282" the big bore w/258 crank just like the typical "stroker" (4.6L). Take your pick! ;>
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6 Message:0006 6
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 08:53:55 -0500
From: farna@xxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 69 Rebel wagon...
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62NXRPmcarc0000001b@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
1. I wouldn't worry about changing the six to V-8. It's not original, but most who look at it later will consider it a value adder. Restored Rambler wagons aren't big value collector items. If you restore the rest of the car but switch it to a V-8 I would still appraise it a bit more than a six cylinder model because there will be more interest in the V-8 despite the fact it's not "numbers matching" (original). Not enough difference to make the change, but the point it you're not hurting value.
2. The crossmember is different, just like the small cars. You can use a 67-78 Rebel or Matador sedan or wagon crossmember. The Mat Coupe and Ambo crossmembers set the engine back at different places and can't be used. It's not difficult to modify the six cylinder perches for the V-8 mounts. Bolt on a piece of 1/4" plate -- the locations are close. Welding would be better since it can't work loose. Even with a welded crossmember you're not hurting value -- as long as it's done correctly (neat looking and good welds).
3. If you weld the six cylinder perches, I'm pretty sure you can use the small body V-8 block plates. I think the plates are the same on the sixes regardless of body size, meaning the perches are in the same location and plates/mounts are the same. On big car V-8 models the perches are further apart and the big car plates must be used. The small car plates are closer to the block for clearance, mainly on the left side. There were no clearance issues with the sixes.
4. All big cars with 232 and 258 sixes got the AMC 20 rear axle, so you're good to go there! The 3.54 gears will fit your existing axle. You should have a 3.15 now, maybe a 3.08. I'd try that 390 with the stock gears before switching. The 63-66 Classic/Ambo had 3.15s stock with the 287/327, and those were pretty "spunky" cars. OThe SC/Rambler (American) axle is about 3" to narrow and doesn't have the four link mounts. You'll have to switch diffs and change the pinion gear. I suggest taking the gears out of the SC/R axle yourself then taking the Rebel rear out. Will cost $150-$200 to have a pro set the gears up. If not perfect the gears will grind themselves up.
On March 2, 2006 Savage, Peter wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I own a very nice 69 rebel station wagon with a 6 cylinder 232 motor with an
> automatic transmission.
>
> While I really like driving this car it does not have a whole lot of spunk and lacks the pure
> fun of a muscle car.
>
> Also, I have a complete SC/Rambler 390 with T10 and 3.54 rear and I am considering dropping this
> setup into the wagon to make it much more fun to drive...
>
> Sooooooo, my question is: what is involved in swapping in the V8? Does the Rebel require
> a crossmember change similar to other AMCs? What else is involved with this swap? Special
> parts, items to fabricate, etc.?
>
> Did the AMC 69 Rebel wagon originally come from the factory with the 390 engine?
>
> If I do this swap I will do it in such a way that I can revert it back to its original state, so please lets
> not debate the fact I am even considering this swap.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Peter
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7 Message:0007 7
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 09:35:21 -0500
From: <mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: Re: My Hornet paint...
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Message-ID: <ADVANCES62xc1o8yfog0000001e@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Hey Tom...
Could you send me (or post for all) the info on that paint shop? I'll get my Mat done someday, if I don't sell it, and I definately won't be in a hurry...
Keleigh
On March 2, 2006 Tom Jennings wrote:
> Not done YET!!! Close though -- I pick it up Saturday. Just needs some
> final drying and sanding.
>
> Damn it looks good! The two-tone, color on top, works perfectly. Exactly
> the effect I wanted -- looks like an import-scene car (aka "rice
> rocket") made by AMC in the 1960's.
>
> The paint turned out weird -- good weird. On 1999 Audi TT's, it's
> straight-up neutral grey (I'd say 5% towards blue, as opposed to brown,
> direction). I had 'em leave out the metalflake, which gave it a faintly
> bluish cast. With clear coat, in sunlight, it's definitely got a strong
> blue tint. There's no way to know this stuff except to squirt, sand,
> coat, sand, ...
>
> Luckily the white I picked complements it perfectly. Its far bluer than
> I wanted, but it looks totally great. The color is simply inexplicable,
> a real standout. And the finish is like glass.
>
> The doors and most of the interior is white, interior vinyl is neutral
> gray (same as SEM Warm Grey).
>
> The gray/white line will get a 3/32" black tape stripe. I really want
> painted pinstripe, but I will later get nomenclature done in two-tone
> white and grey ("Rambler Hornet", "4.2L", etc but in a retro-modern
> typeface like I did with the gauges)
>
> (Yes Rambler Hornet, I like that better. Like the Mythbuster guy says,
> "I substitute my reality for yours". Only AMCers will know to object.
> I'll just say it was assembled in the Azores or something.)
>
> $2000 even total for body work and two-color paint, not bad. The usual
> zillion shopping-cart dings, filled all the trim holes, door crease,
> poked front fender tip. Who says you can't get good work done in cities?
> (Just can't be in a hurry is all.)
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8 Message:0008 8
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Subject: RE: 69 Rebel wagon...
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 2006 09:29:22 -0500
Message-ID: <E480ED1D2ACDD04CBF83DB613E74067301A4A78C@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
From: "Savage, Pete" <PSavage@xxxxxxxxxxx>
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Thanks for the info...
I definitely plan of doing this conversion and the plan calls for it to =
look like a Rebel Machine Wagon.
Will a Rebel Machine hood fit this wagon?
Does anyone have a cross member they want to part with that can be used?
I just finished up a 6 year restoration of a very rare Cougar and its =
now time to
get on with this project. I am starting with a very good body that I =
plan to paint white and
add the red and blue accents to match the rebel machine as best I can.
Comments?
Thanks
Peter
-----Original Message-----
From: farna@xxxxxxx [mailto:farna@xxxxxxx]
Sent: Friday, March 03, 2006 8:54 AM
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: 69 Rebel wagon...
1. I wouldn't worry about changing the six to V-8. It's not original, =
but most who look at it later will consider it a value adder. Restored =
Rambler wagons aren't big value collector items. If you restore the rest =
of the car but switch it to a V-8 I would still appraise it a bit more =
than a six cylinder model because there will be more interest in the V-8 =
despite the fact it's not "numbers matching" (original). Not enough =
difference to make the change, but the point it you're not hurting =
value.
2. The crossmember is different, just like the small cars. You can use a =
67-78 Rebel or Matador sedan or wagon crossmember. The Mat Coupe and =
Ambo crossmembers set the engine back at different places and can't be =
used. It's not difficult to modify the six cylinder perches for the V-8 =
mounts. Bolt on a piece of 1/4" plate -- the locations are close. =
Welding would be better since it can't work loose. Even with a welded =
crossmember you're not hurting value -- as long as it's done correctly =
(neat looking and good welds).
3. If you weld the six cylinder perches, I'm pretty sure you can use the =
small body V-8 block plates. I think the plates are the same on the =
sixes regardless of body size, meaning the perches are in the same =
location and plates/mounts are the same. On big car V-8 models the =
perches are further apart and the big car plates must be used. The small =
car plates are closer to the block for clearance, mainly on the left =
side. There were no clearance issues with the sixes.
4. All big cars with 232 and 258 sixes got the AMC 20 rear axle, so =
you're good to go there! The 3.54 gears will fit your existing axle. You =
should have a 3.15 now, maybe a 3.08. I'd try that 390 with the stock =
gears before switching. The 63-66 Classic/Ambo had 3.15s stock with the =
287/327, and those were pretty "spunky" cars. OThe SC/Rambler (American) =
axle is about 3" to narrow and doesn't have the four link mounts. You'll =
have to switch diffs and change the pinion gear. I suggest taking the =
gears out of the SC/R axle yourself then taking the Rebel rear out. Will =
cost $150-$200 to have a pro set the gears up. If not perfect the gears =
will grind themselves up.
On March 2, 2006 Savage, Peter wrote:
> Folks,
>
> I own a very nice 69 rebel station wagon with a 6 cylinder 232 motor =
with an
> automatic transmission.
>
> While I really like driving this car it does not have a whole lot of =
spunk and lacks the pure
> fun of a muscle car.
>
> Also, I have a complete SC/Rambler 390 with T10 and 3.54 rear and I am =
considering dropping this
> setup into the wagon to make it much more fun to drive...
>
> Sooooooo, my question is: what is involved in swapping in the V8? =
Does the Rebel require
> a crossmember change similar to other AMCs? What else is involved =
with this swap? Special
> parts, items to fabricate, etc.?
>
> Did the AMC 69 Rebel wagon originally come from the factory with the =
390 engine?
>
> If I do this swap I will do it in such a way that I can revert it back =
to its original state, so please lets
> not debate the fact I am even considering this swap.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Peter
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
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9 Message:0009 9
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:01:08 -0500
From: "Peter W. Szymanski (SAEP)" <szymansp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: 69 Rebel wagon...
To: mail-From-szymansp-optonline.net@xxxxxxxxxxxx, mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx,
Message-id: <000c01c63ed3$4dc0f270$0201a8c0@SAEPXPS>
Pete,
I had a 69 Rebel station wagon, two-tone (blue/dark blue) with the 2-bbl 343
V-8. I've also had a 65 Rambler 660 SW with a 199 I-6 and a 66 Rambler SW
with a 232 I-6. The 199 engine was a dog, although it would start in any
weather (Kenosha, WI in winter). The 232 was better as it had more power
and torque, but the 343 was a huge improvement. I would imagine that the
hot 390 you want to put in would be even better. I think you'd have to do
some suspension work (stronger springs at least). I don't recall there
being a different crossmember for V-8s vs I-6s, but I don't recall if I knew
anybody who'd done the 6 to 8 swap, although it was a common thing in
Kenosha. You could find a Rebel with an 8 in it and compare it to yours.
The mounts for your 8 should be the same as for any AMC 8 since they all
used the same block.
That Rebel was a nice car. I got it while in college with 80K miles on it
and finally sold it with 325K miles on it. Other than replacing wear parts
(suspension, brakes, shocks, water pump, timing gear) and some minor things
I never had a major problem with it.
Good luck.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Savage, Pete [mailto:PSavage@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:00 PM
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: 69 Rebel wagon...
Folks,
I own a very nice 69 rebel station wagon with a 6 cylinder 232 motor with an
automatic transmission.
While I really like driving this car it does not have a whole lot of spunk
and lacks the pure
fun of a muscle car.
Also, I have a complete SC/Rambler 390 with T10 and 3.54 rear and I am
considering dropping this
setup into the wagon to make it much more fun to drive...
Sooooooo, my question is: what is involved in swapping in the V8? Does the
Rebel require
a crossmember change similar to other AMCs? What else is involved with this
swap? Special
parts, items to fabricate, etc.?
Did the AMC 69 Rebel wagon originally come from the factory with the 390
engine?
If I do this swap I will do it in such a way that I can revert it back to
its original state, so please lets
not debate the fact I am even considering this swap.
Thanks in advance!
Peter
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10 Message:0010 10
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Date: Fri, 03 Mar 2006 10:01:08 -0500
From: "Peter W. Szymanski (SAEP)" <szymansp@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Subject: RE: 69 Rebel wagon...
To: mail-From-szymansp-optonline.net@xxxxxxxxxxxx, mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx,
Message-id: <000c01c63ed3$4dc0f270$0201a8c0@SAEPXPS>
Pete,
I had a 69 Rebel station wagon, two-tone (blue/dark blue) with the 2-bbl 343
V-8. I've also had a 65 Rambler 660 SW with a 199 I-6 and a 66 Rambler SW
with a 232 I-6. The 199 engine was a dog, although it would start in any
weather (Kenosha, WI in winter). The 232 was better as it had more power
and torque, but the 343 was a huge improvement. I would imagine that the
hot 390 you want to put in would be even better. I think you'd have to do
some suspension work (stronger springs at least). I don't recall there
being a different crossmember for V-8s vs I-6s, but I don't recall if I knew
anybody who'd done the 6 to 8 swap, although it was a common thing in
Kenosha. You could find a Rebel with an 8 in it and compare it to yours.
The mounts for your 8 should be the same as for any AMC 8 since they all
used the same block.
That Rebel was a nice car. I got it while in college with 80K miles on it
and finally sold it with 325K miles on it. Other than replacing wear parts
(suspension, brakes, shocks, water pump, timing gear) and some minor things
I never had a major problem with it.
Good luck.
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: Savage, Pete [mailto:PSavage@xxxxxxxxxxx]
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 4:00 PM
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: 69 Rebel wagon...
Folks,
I own a very nice 69 rebel station wagon with a 6 cylinder 232 motor with an
automatic transmission.
While I really like driving this car it does not have a whole lot of spunk
and lacks the pure
fun of a muscle car.
Also, I have a complete SC/Rambler 390 with T10 and 3.54 rear and I am
considering dropping this
setup into the wagon to make it much more fun to drive...
Sooooooo, my question is: what is involved in swapping in the V8? Does the
Rebel require
a crossmember change similar to other AMCs? What else is involved with this
swap? Special
parts, items to fabricate, etc.?
Did the AMC 69 Rebel wagon originally come from the factory with the 390
engine?
If I do this swap I will do it in such a way that I can revert it back to
its original state, so please lets
not debate the fact I am even considering this swap.
Thanks in advance!
Peter
End of digest for 3 Mar 2006, hour 7:00
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