Frank; I am STILL not convinced as I have never seen comparable performance from a STOCK 4.0 engine compared to a stock 360-4v. you again qualified the 4.o as a non-stock 4.0. Yeah, the money you save by not doing the V8 upgrades you can put into jazzing up the 4.0 and if anyone is going to hop up the 4.o some V8 quality upgrades are recommended, such as better brakes, posi AMC 20 rear end, etc. I am dropping the subject as I think we can agree to disagree.....Russ __________________________________ Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/