Re: {SPAM?} Home made Hybrid

[farna@xxxxxxx]

There are several electric conversion sites. That's what you want to look at first. The simple hybrid idea is to use a small generator, something quiet like a Honda, to supplement range. Th batteries are still the primary power source. The generator doesn't have to provide total power, just a bit more than enough to pull the car at a steady cruising speed. Then you need to start the generator when the batteries are 40-60% depleted. The generator would be connected through a charging controller or large diodes that would prevent current drain when the gen isn't running. Diodes are all that's used on solar cells when overcharging the battery isn't an issue (like on the little "battery saver" types). Of course you'd have to have some type of on-board charger. That itself will limit how much you can charge the batteries while driving. But when you're stopped, the gen is still running. So you're charging at stop lights. If you get on the interstate and cruise at 55-60, the genera!
 tor could be run and ideally would put out a little more power than the electric motor is using, at least on level ground. You'd only be pulling the batteries down when accelerating, passing, or pulling up hills. It takes very little power to keep a car cruising, remember. 

Of course that would be ideal. In a practical situation if you built a car with a strictly battery range of say 60 miles, I think you'd extend the range with the small generator to 90-100 miles in town, maybe 120-150 if you have a long level cruise area. I think batteries to run that extra 30-80 miles would weigh and cost a lot more than the generator setup. Another plus on the gen setup is that if you did run the batteries down a good bit you could leave the generator running while you stopped for a rest. An hour probably wouldn't get you more than another 20 miles or so, but if you couldn't plug up the generator only uses a few gallons over 5-8 hours -- it wouldn't be cost prohibitive to charge batteries while at work, overnight at a motel, etc. Might not be saving much, but you wouldn't be stranded. A Honda EN2500 uses a 5hp motor and produces 2300 watts (2500W is peak output, 2300W sustained), and will run 7 hours on just under 3 gallons (2.9) or gas. Should be enough to!
  replenish the battery pack at least by 50% over that amount of time. 

If you had a generator that would keep up with total electric use you'd use as much or more gas than the gas engined car. You'd have to keep up with peak demand, not lowest demand. Though you could keep a few batteries on board for dead stop take-offs, you'd be adding lots of weight with little gain in efficiency. You'd have hybrid drive, sort of like a diesel locomotive. that doesn't save fuel directly, it's a bit more efficient because the electric motors can be made in such a way to provide lots of traction without a lot of gearing like the diesel engines would need if driving directly. For a car the weight of the generator in combination with the driving engine would make it less efficient. I'm not so sure the combo wouldn't work with something like a heavy load 18 wheeler though. I doubt there would be enough efficiency gain to make it worth while. With a train there obviously is. 

On a home built hybrid the generator could easily be manually started. I don't necessarily mean with a pull cord under the dash, though using a long rope and pulleys it certainly could be done that way and not be obvious. An electric start would be better, but I've not seen a small enough generators with electric start. Anyway, what I meant was you could watch your charge level gauge and start the gen when needed. For short commutes you wouldn't need it at all. If I had 70% charge left and was only a few miles from home, I wouldn't use it. 

I'm serious about the pull cord start though. I wouldn't think much at all about putting a generator under the hood and using pulleys to route a cord to an inconspicuous handle under the dash on a home built hybrid. As long as it only takes 10-12" to pull, and was carefully placed relatively close to the firewall, it would work fine. An electric door lock solenoid and/or vac/electric heater control could even be rigged for the choke/gas (solenoid would only work for choke) if cables weren't convenient.

Running the generator off a wheel is kind of like perpetual motion! It takes as much power to turn the gen as you get back. Regnerative braking sort of works that way, but you're getting back power that you used to accelerate. Instead of throwing the power away as heat energy you use the electric motor to slow the car (engine braking), and the motor is turned into a generator while slowing to put that power back into the batteries. There's a rather expensive control circuit for that. Worth it for a mass produced hybrid, for a home built it complicates things and adds a lot to cost. Running the AC compressor off a wheel instead of hte motor may have some merit, but you'd be out of AC when stopped. If you're not in a lot of traffic that would work. But I hate the fact that my wife's Volvo has an AC cut-off during acceleration. On a hot day you just don't really want to go anywhere fast, not until you get the car cooled down anyway! You could extend battery range by having the !
 generator tied to the AC -- it would charge some while running the AC also. That would cut down efficiency a little, but would increase battery range. May as well have an electric motor driving the AC though -- won't take any more energy than running the generator, and the gen would be putting juice back into the batteries when the compressor wasn't running. 

Yeah, I've thought about it ;>  My problem is the cost. It would cost a bit more to build than a nicely equipped four cylinder car, and would take a lot more careful thought and planning. I've got the concept down, would just need to start shopping for parts. You could even make a LPG powered car cheaper. I'm just reluctant to spend $2500-$5000 over what it would cost me to build a mild hot rod. I paid $250 for a turbo four and five speed from a Mercur XR4ti for what will likely be my next project. An electric motor and accoutrements would have cost $1000+ for used items. 

On September 26, 2005 Jim Boone wrote:

> We've had alot of talk on the hybrids and diesels, but one idea thrown out I'd like to talk about some more.
> 
> What if you took an AMC, something light & cheap, like an American or Gremlin, and made an electric car with a common generator as backup?  I think Frank might've mentioned that before.  I understand the concept but was wondering:
> 
> >Where to find info on an electric motor that would work
> >Would the electric motor still need to go through a transmission
> >Would a generator like what you'd find at Lowe's or Home Depot work to recharge while driving?
> 
> On the last, I'd think not.  I have a Troybilt 5550 gen I bought last yr when I was out of power most of the month due to the storms.  It uses something like 10 gallons a day loaded.  I don't think a normal size generator like this could keep up with current drain in batteries while driving normal speeds, but I'm not really sure how to figure all this out.
> 
> I was thinking that, of course, you'd need a sh**load of batteries, but could you separate them into two banks and run off one while the other charges? Kinda like a backup?
> 
> For strictly a work car, I go about 60 miles a day, and could most likely plug in a recharger at work for 8 hrs, so having a generator probably wouldn't be required, but it could extend your range I'd think.
> 
> I'm kinda intriqued by this idea and wonder how cheaply you could put together a classic AMC using electric/gas power.  I'd need AC as well living here in the South, but that could be added easy enough.  You might could even get a little bit slick with both the AC and recharge system and run if off one of the wheels when rolling, then back to power when in stop'n'go.
> 
> I don't know, maybe it's just another idiot idea aka a project that would never get done; just thinking of a way to enjoy our cars regardless of the gas situation...
> 
> Jim Boone
> Mims, FL
> 
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