Re: Fw: History of Jeep and the Jeep Liberty (diesel)

["Jim Blair" <carnuck@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

A: For the real kick in the pants, I've been sitting on a list reading about 
air-powered cars (they have an on-board compressor and retro-braking also 
pumps air into the tank) and they are available in other countries already 
(several ex-USSR federates have them). An air/electric/fuel hybrid car would 
be just the ticket in my opinion. (for daily driver that is. Save more 
expensive long chain hydrocarbons for the collectibles)
   I was also checking out hydrogen technologies and found one where they 
use solar power to generate Hydrogen and Oxygen to heat homes and it's 
compressed to power cars (the only exhaust is water vapor and O2)


From: Tom Jennings <tomj@xxxxxxx>
To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: Re: Fw: History of Jeep and the Jeep Liberty (diesel)
Message-ID: <20050829122407.R710@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>

On Mon, 29 Aug 2005, Sandwich Maker wrote:

> suppose you can get a toyota prius for $20k [hah!]
> suppose you can get an echo, which the prius is based on, for $10k.
> the echo btw has good room for 4 and weighs 800lbs less than the
> prius.

It of course makes less stinky stuff out the rear, which a lot of
people choose to include in the cost.

> now also suppose the echo gets 30mpg and the prius 45.  i know, they
> claim 55 but autoweek's experience over several months is a very
> steady 42-43.  [remember also that the hybrid won't help you at all
> on the highway]

I have a friend who consciensously drives with an eye on the
feedback meter thing, and brakes ahead up to the point where the
friction brakes come on, and in general pays attention to the
battery:gasoline:regen crossover, and gets low to mid 50's MPGs.
He has severely changed his driving habits to match the car. It's
not an unreasonable thing; we change our habits between AMXs with
built 401's and older Americans with 195.6's.

> then there's the battery replacement cost.  they don't have a good
> handle on it, because prius sales are so brisk they're rapidly sliding
> down the volume production curve, but they don't last forever and it
> won't be negligible.  and the take-outs are hazardous waste like all
> rechargeable batteries.

This will become a big deal!

> on top of all this, toyota makes a perfectly good diesel echo which
> gets about 45mpg [us equiv] in the european cycle, and it's not nearly
> as expensive as the prius.  you can see it at www.toyota.co.uk as the
> yaris.  and it can be fueled on biodiesel, if you want to be 'green'.
> some folks on the net are claiming to make it for under $1/gal but i
> think that's assuming free waste fryer oil, and methanol made from
> petroleum.  but if you don't worry about food-grade processing [also
> look up 'cellulosic ethanol'] i wouldn't be a bit surprised if $3/gal
> wasn't in the range - and biodiesel can be used anywhere #2 diesel is,
> including your furnace.  it's even better for the machinery,
> lubricates better and burns cleaner - and with a better smell.

Honda's Civic GX (natural gas) car available sort of in Calif. is
a big winner, the cleanest I.C. car ever rated. About $22k, but

tax breaks make it better and apparently more breaks on the way.