The 4 wheel manual drums on the Javelin work about 10,000 times better then my seize master 8000 4 piston brakes ever did on the AMX... Thankfully the AMX has 4 wheel modern disks now and the Javelin will too once I can pony up the cash. Lesson for this whole thread: Brakes that are not properly maintained suck, cheap Chinese rotors suck, and opinions are like..... ~J -----Original Message----- From: Arfon Griffiths [mailto:ArfonRG@xxxxxxx] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 12:24 PM To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: RE:Drums v disks >I'm amazed, All I Did was mention temporarily using drums on the front >of >the Ambassador to get it rolling and now there are at least three threads >going! Geez! Take a pill!!! Red or Blue?