Re: Non-AMC powered cars in AMO

[farna@xxxxxxx]

On April 17, 2005 larry blatt wrote:

> > I have always been against non-AMC powered cars allowed to be shown at AMC meets. I think that one of the main reasons we all bought AMC's is their great engines. I sure wouldn't want to replace the engines in my 343 American or my '57 Rebel with anything other than AMC power. For those of you who are non-believers, let me put it another way. If you had a Corvette, do you think the Corvette people would allow a non Chevrolet powered Corvette to be shown at one of their events? What if you had a Ford. Do you think the related club would allow anything but a Ford powered car in their event? I don't think so.

Frank Swygert's comments:
I wouldn't replace a perfectly good AMC engine with anything else either. And there are certain cars that even the least "pure" AMCer wouldn't consider dropping a different engine in -- 57 Rebel for sure, most Javelins, AMX 2 seater, SC/Rambler, Machine -- all the cars that get the most recognition. But then there's the old standard 56 or 57 Rambler 195.6 car that has a beat interior, worn out engine, but still a solid body. Sure, you could put an AMC V-8 in, a GEN-1 would be an easy fit, but what about finding one? In some areas GEN-3 AMC V-8s are still plentiful and easy to find. You're most likely to find a rebuilder though, forget about a running engine. So budget comes into play to. I can go get a late model, reasonable mileage running engine from any salvage yard (say 60-80K on the clock) for much less than I can build an AMC V-8 if I had it sitting in the yard and did the assembly myself. And I'm likely to get a transmission in the deal too. It's not that difficult to!
  drop another engine in IF you have some fabrication/welding skills. If you have to pay someone to do the work you're better off staying stock, but you can farm the more critical welding out and still be under budget. Finding parts is a big problem, and will only get worse. The only reason I stuck a 4.0L in my 63 Classic is that I wanted a daily driver capable of going anywhere. The last time I bought a water pump for my 195.6 OHV I had to send mine out to be rebuilt, I got two others that were for 195.6 engines but different models. Took two weeks to get a useable one! Can't have that happen on the road! I realize there are lots of things that can happen and I can't fix the 63 in an afternoon, but all the more likely to fail parts are relatively new and most importantly readily available almost anywhere now. I chose the 4.0L because I like sixes and it is at least an AMC design and has EFI. I would have built a 258 (with a carb) had I not been able to get a 4.0L. I like to!
  keep even my custom AMCs "all in the family", but will deviate from t
hat when I build my 62 American hot rod. No SBC, a 2.3L Ford turbo four with five speed and IRS (Mercur XR4Ti drivetrain). It's not a matter of anything else being "better", but more available in case of problems. 

> 
> Finally, as automobile buffs, we are historians who should want to preserve the marque as originally built, or if one would decide to modify the vehicle, I would think you would want to upgrade the powerplant with a more modern version of that company's engine, and "keep it in the family," so to speak. But think about what other clubs would allow at their events.
> Just my .02.
> Larry Blatt, Phila, PA, '67 Rogue 343, '57 Rebel.

Some clubs allow other power with a separate class, some just take away points in a modified class for not using the correct engine (I've seen one that took a few points for not correct, then more for another make -- it was almost impossible for a "other" powered car to place in judging). In AMO's case they are creating a separate class for these cars, which will prevent "dillution" of all AMC classes, IMHO. They are still 50% AMC even if it's just a body shell with different suspension, interior, and complete drivetrain. Some clubs don't allow "other" power. They are usually big enough that the "other" people just go somewhere else. Do we want to lose those potential AMC fans? Most of the "other" powered cars are drivers, racers, or customs. One guy in FL who raced an AMX used a Chevy engine. It wasn't because of parts availability or power -- he flatly told me he could easily get as much power as his built-to-the-hilt Chevy from his AMC 390 block at likely less cost since !
 he'd use the AMC crank instead of a custom Chevy crank. So why not race the AMC? He didn't want to risk damage to the engine! The AMC was more valuable to him than the easy to find Chevy. Makes sense. 

All of us aren't historians, some just enjoy the "old car" hobby and like AMC styling. Now you know I'm a historian, but I also like to enjoy driving my car. I get surprised looks all the time when people notice I drive my car daily. And I really mean daily -- back and forth to work, everywhere! That's what I built it for. Being in the USAF and moving around I can't keep a restored car -- no where to store it, and I have enough stuff to move as it is! I don't see the point of having a car in storage that I'm going to see/drive a couple times a year either. If I had money I'd be like Jay Leno -- restore it, drive it some, then clean it up again! Sure, I'd have a couple that I trailered long distance occasionally, but that goes back to the parts availability/reliability issue. NOS and even rebuilt old parts are more likely to fail than newer ones in general (yes, I know there are exceptions, especially with some of the junk being made now!). I'd trailer rather than trust some !
 tow company to load my baby from the side of the road, and who knows where/when that NOS or original part, which has been faithfully going for 30+ years, will finally quit? 

I've thought about restoring a car to 100% original, or as close as I can get it, but now I'm not sure. I've got a good many years left (I'm 43), but I enjoy driving my cars to much. I think I'll build my little American turbo four rod (the body is in rough shape, no interior, engine, and front suspension will haveto be pieced together from another parts car) then look for a couple slightly rusted/wrecked 56-62 Ramblers. Those will be cut up to make a stretch limo. Might have to use something newer, but want a definite "old car" look so I can hire it out as a wedding/special occasion car (no parties!). I'll likely use a modern drivetrain, but will keep the 287/327 IF I find cars with that engine to begin with. If I end up with a couple 195.6 cars (or a bad 287/327) I'll likely power with whatever. I don't know what I'd choose -- a stroked 4.0L would be adequate power, but I think I'd like something more. If an AMC 360 can be found locally I will likely go for that and build !
 it for propane/natural gas, but I might go for a light weight "other" V-8 it if comes up at the right price. I was thinking AMC/Jeep 2.5L four for the American, but the Mercur XR4Ti came up at a price I couldn't turn down (trashed interior, but good drivetrain for $250 -- entire car!). If that happens when I'm looking for a drivetrain for the limo...

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