Re: mail Digest for 16 Jan 2005 in hour 19:00

[farna@xxxxxxx]

I seem to have made ONE small error in my original answer. I left the "ALL" out of the following sentence:
> I'm not so sure (ALL) the aftermarket carriers have the ring gear mount flange in a 
> different position than the factory.

I never intended to insinuate that NONE of the aftermarket carriers had the ring gear mount flange in a different position than stock. Randy's quite good explanation of how the ring and pinion fit together makes it obvious that SOME gear ratios will require moving the carrier position. I'm sure Randy never meant to insinuate that ALL aftermarket carriers are different than stock. But that's the way his post sounded to me, and why I questioned it. 

I'm not going to start a flame war here, this will be my only public reply, and I request that no one else reply other than to the specific subject. Apparently Randy got upset that I questioned his post. Unless we question, we don't learn. So quite the contrary to his post that I'm unwilling or unable to learn, I attempted to participate in the learning process. I started off my reply "I'm not quite  sure..." (questioning, definitely asking for more) instead, of "No, you idiot, all aftermarket carriers aren't in different positions than the stock carrier like you said. Go back and read your post, you'll see how stupid it sounds. If you can't be clear, keep your fat fingers off the keyboard!" But I didn't. I attempted to be tactful and polite instead. 

And I also noted, in the beginning of this message, that I was just about as misleading though. I don't mind that being pointed out at all, in fact I APPRECIATE the fact that a mistake I made was pointed out. I DO NOT appreciate the manner in which it was pointed out, especially in public. Call me out if I make a mistake, PLEASE, any and everyone on here! But if you can't be tactful, and insist on talking to me as if I'm an idiot, please do so in PRIVATE E-MAIL where I can either feel free to reply in kind WITHOUT INVOLVING EVERYONE HERE or delete the trash. 


--
Frank Swygert
Publisher, "American Independent 
Magazine" (AIM)
For all AMC enthusiasts
http://farna.home.att.net/AIM.html
(free download available!)
			

 -------------- Original message ----------------------


> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 08:12:24 -0600
> From: Guynn <amx69@xxxxxxxxxx>
> To: farna@xxxxxxx, mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: AMC Model 20 rear end parts swap discussion part 99
> 
> Frank,
> 
> You may not know that the Ring gear flange is in different locations, 
> but I DO KNOW IT, and I was trying to share the FACT with others to help 
> them see exactly why the aftermarket says one [or two, or three] 
> different break points in carrier/gear swaps while the Factory pieces 
> say something else. This is exactly why I suggest you go put parts in 
> hand and compare them, so you will then KNOW the reason.
> 
> BOTH Factory & Aftermarket are 100% correct about their own respective 
> carrier/gear swaps,. What is so hard to understand about that??? 
> Aftermarket is not Factory, plain & simple. But also, they are not 
> IDIOTS that don't know anything about AMC model 20 rear ends because 
> their pieces do not afford the gear swaps Factory pieces do.
> 
> So, even though it is laid out for you to see Frank, You start off your 
> reply as ''I'm not so sure...... See, more speculation just confuses the 
> issue again. If you are not sure, and you don't want to accept what I 
> laid out, then go get some parts and you will be able to post and BE 
> SURE about what you are saying.
> 
> No knock against you Frank, but it is very easy to see that folks that 
> don't know will chime in saying they don't believe you. ''I'm not so 
> sure... raally says, ''I don't believe......
> 
> So folks can go on being ''not quiet sure....., or they can Learn the 
> facts. Each person must decide if they are going to continue in life 
> ''unsure'' or if they are going to ''Know''. This not only deals with 
> the model 20 AMC rear, it extends to Everything in ones' life. You can 
> seek, learn, & then Know, or you can speculate and be uunsure. I can 
> only help those that are willing to learn something. And the ability to 
> learn something comes from the individual person and their desire to 
> learn the truth.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Randy Guynn

-------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 04:29:52 -0500
> From: farna@xxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: AMC Model 20 rear end parts swap discussion part 99
> To: mail@xxxxxxxxxxxx
> Message-ID: <ADVANCES62RGryWtIIZ000015be@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> 
> I'm not so sure the aftermarket carriers have the ring gear mount flange in a 
> different position than the factory. Otherwise the gears wouldn't fit a factory 
> carrier. I've only seen one or two manufactuers note that certain ratios they 
> carry (usually the real low ones, 5.xx for Jeeps) won't fit factory carriers, 
> but I don't mess with many gear changes like Randy has. 
> 
> One point Randy made really stands out: there's more than one way to make the 
> same ratio, and that explains an aftermarket company having a different "break 
> point" than the factory, like the example he gave. 
> 
> On January 16, 2005 Randy Guynn wrote (and I edited down further):
> 
> > If you already ''know it all;''  on Model 20 rear ends,then don't bother
> > reading this as you could not possibly learn anything from it. If you
> > are teachable you might just learn why there is so much confusion over
> > model 20 gear/carrier swaps.
> > 
> > Tom Bunsey, you are right. But also the Aftermarket is right Where the
> > problem comes from is Factory parts and Aftermarket parts. Just because
> > a certain gar ratio in Factory gears fits in Factory carriers does not
> > mean that every aftermarket gear, or carrier will affect the same swaps.
> > 
> > You have to understand that the aftermarket carriers that are advertised
> > as 3.08 and up gears really do fit the gears advertised.Just because a
> > gear ratio is say, 3.08 does not mean that every manufacturer arrives at
> > the 3.08 in the same way.
> > 
> > Example a 3.08 AMC Factory gear is a 13/40 count but a Precision
> > aftermarket 3.08 gear is 14/43 count.
> > 
> > One thing that is 100% constant in all rear end applications is that the
> > Pinion gear is always located in the exact same place in the housing.
> > So, with that in mind, you can easily see that when the number of teeth
> > on a Pinion gear increases, the gear gets bigger in diameter. Since the
> > centerline of the pinion never changes, then it stands to reason that
> > the Ring gear gets Thinner as the Pinion gear gets bigger. The reason
> > there is more than one carrier is because they moved the Ring Gear
> > Mounting Flange on the 2.73 and 2.56 model carriers because the pinion
> > had grown so large that the ring gear was too thin for strength needed.
> > So, they move the flange.and the ring gear can then gain more width and
> > be strong enough to not easily break.

>